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For those of you who think Samsung is crazy and this is grasping at straws need to look into a man in the late 60's named Charles Hall.
He tried to patent the waterbed. Yes the waterbed but was denied by the uspo in the 60's because of prior art. Where did this prior art come from? A science fiction writer by the name of Robert Heinlein and his writings of a 'hydraulic bed'.
Samsung maybe on to something here.
here's a good read. http://dhowell.com/wet-dreams-the-history-of-the-water-bed/

“My contribution was the modern day water bed that, at its peak, sold like $2 billion a year in water bed accessories, in that era, and was nearly 20 percent of the market,” said Hall. Not to mention helping to spawn Generation X. In this case, however, bringing children in the world was apparently easier than gaining a patent.
Due to references in sci-fi author Robert Heinlein’s oevre, most notably the 1961 fantasy Stranger in a Strange Land, the United States Patent Office refused to issue Hall a patent on the grounds that the authors descriptions of a “hydraulic bed” constituted “prior art,” meaning that even though it was never made, it was, for all intents and purposes, invented.
 
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Matariel said:
Try again. Reality check. The design patent is specific to a specific device. The iPod, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPod Mini, etc., all have specific design patents tied to their product form factor and specific to the device and what it proposes to do.

A solid write up from a FOSS advocate:

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/apple-is-right-to-protect-its-ipad-design-patent/54538

That's true for their iPods, etc, but the patent they're defending right now does not include any functional details, it is a design patent. Design patents are the patent equivalent of copyrighting a physical design, the shape and form of it, rather than the function and operation.

Also: it's cute that you found an article that agrees with the close minded opinions of yourself and other Apple fanboys on this forum, but this guy is a nobody, he has no legal qualifications and thus zero credibility.

So you could sue him for copying you then
 
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This is what is funny. Instead of arguing their devices are different they instead admit they are copies and provide a bad fictional example of prior art.

For all those saying Samsung did not copy apple: by playing this card they are essentially admitting they did use the same design as the iPad.

Seriously? And did Apple watch much DS9? Ressurecting your dead wifes memory on a tablet? Magical.
Sarah_Sisko_reconstruction.jpg


Rectangle, rounded edges, touchscreen. All right there.
 
They're tablets, you can clearly see them in the close-up shots, even on the wide angle you can see the corners hanging off the side of the table.
They're never moved on-screen because of the technology they used to make them work, 2001 was made prior to blue/green screen technology.
As far as I remember, they actually used film projectors, and projected the image directly on the screens.

Well, those pretend to look like tablets, but obviously are not, is just a display, I think they wanted to make it look like tablets. But, the design is really similar to the Galaxy Tab.
 
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Meandmunch said:
I actually have to side with Samsung on this one.

"Samsung hopes to demonstrate that there is little variation possible when designing a tablet and show that the general concept used by Apple for the iPad has actually been circulating for decades."

Just how exactly is a Tablet supposed to be anything but whats described in Apples Patent? All other tablets are supposed to Cubed or Spherical?

Thats like one rain drop suing another rain drop for shape and design infringements.

Since no tablet looked like the iPad before the iPad even though tablets existed fir decades the idea that it was impossible to do anything else is silly.

If apple did not release the iPhone and iPad there would still not be any tablets that looked like the iPad yet there still would have been more tablets created.

When people think the placement of the Samsung logo is sufficiently material I know they don't understand. When people spend all day posting up pics they claim look like iPads but actually do not all they are doing is providing evidence that it is easy to make a tablet not look like an ipad
 
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No, but you don't seem to know the issues here nor do you know what an iPad looks like. You keep posting irrelevant pics in all these threads. It is like you think spamming these irrelevant pics will mean something. Maybe you can go to work as an investigator for the Samsung legal team and get paid in atta boys

(i) i am paid already, but if you hear Samsung talking about giving away free money let me know.

(ii) LTD whined about the newspad being "imaginary". I showed him non-imaginary -- pre ipad/iphone -- devices. Devices that do share most of the (generic) design elements with the ipad. Feel free to find that irrelevant all you like. In the end im not the one thinking Apple invented the icon.
 
Seriously? And did Apple watch much DS9? Ressurecting your dead wifes memory on a tablet? Magical.

Rectangle, rounded edges, touchscreen. All right there.

And it was even called a "PADD" on the shows (all the series used them, going back to 1987) :D
 
<snip>
Since no tablet looked like the iPad before the iPad even though tablets existed fir decades the idea that it was impossible to do anything else is silly.
<snip>

Well, there you go. Now go read the thread and find the numerous cases when the ipad was a 'copy' of. There were quite a few tablets very similar to the ipad prior to its production.
 
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swagi said:
There are numerous claims made by Apple in its suit against Samsung.

But I thought you might like to compare the original Apple iOS icons for various smartphone functions with the ones Samsung chose to "create" for its Touchwiz interface:

Image

I don't see how any reasonable person could look at those icons and NOT see that Samsung blatantly copied Apple's copyrights. Did they HAVE to make the "Phone" icon green? Did they HAVE to use a gear icon to represent "Settings" Did they HAVE to use a yellow legal pad to represent a notepad? Did they HAVE to use a yellow sunflower to represent the "pictures" function? Did they have to use the exact same pair of musical notes superimposed on a CD to represent music?

Would it really be "preventing innovation" if Samsung had, for example, used a pair of crossed wrenches to represent settings? Would people not be able to understand a Phone icon with a blue background?

No - Samsung went out of their way to rip-off just about every element they could find to copy the iPhone and iPad.

First of all...I just made it up to your answer. I'm happy for myself reading through this blatant pile of blabla that is going on here.

Second - you all don't seem to have a clue what this stuff is about. So once and for all - it is a 'design patent' that should've never been granted in the first place. In case some of you obviously handicapped people regarding reading comprehension don't understand (I just grab out that example):

Yes buddy, you can patent your Warp Engine and your Hoverboard, as this is a TECHNICAL IMPLEMENTATION. This has nothing to do with design. Learn it by now, will you?

Third: The blatant rip-off icon-myth. Using a green phone button and a red phone button for answering and ending calls is an industry standard. It's been on phones for decades (low and behold - long before the iPhone). So basically you have to use a square or round icon, the color green and a phone. Bummer.

Have I said that Apple blatantly ripped off the "Notepad" icon for their notes? Or like every other contact-list icon? And you really want to tell me Apple invented the speech bubble for use on a messaging system? Oh - the famous coloured 1/8th note for music...could it be any more generic?

Sorry buddy - get your heads out of the Apple cloud and grow up. Your citation of generic icons and attaching them to Apple as innovator just makes me as sick as people defending

a rectangular design with a flat screen and a rounded bezel.

Please do me a favor and read at least this page on Community Designs and maybe then return to the discussion and contribute something useful.

And on topic: Yes, Samsung really has a strong prior art case considering the design here.

That article is just another irrational apple hater. It is good to see the sketches though as they are clearly show an iPhone and an iPod and not the generic and crude representations he claims.

With a few drawings who disproves his own argument. People he could get a gig consulting for the Samsung legal team

Funny thing is apple suing on the community design having to do with their actual production devices so again the guy sabotages his own attacks on apple. That apple is defending itself in regards to designs of their actual products makes the method or amount of apple filings irrelevant. Apple is not suing Samsung based on a community design for a design that is not an actual product. That article fortifies Apple's position and their lawsuit.
 
The IBM Tele-Pad

I'm not basing my argument on anything other than having read the book and watched the film multiple times. So sure, my reading of the "tablet" could also be a continuity error, but it seems strange that what he sets down is noticeably larger and different colored than what Poole is looking at. And yes, the "tablet" Bowman is watching is at a totally different angle and location from where he sets down the item at first which implies some things were moved around before Bowman sits. There are also several long shots in place of Bowman sitting down and/or arranging his space to eat and watch TV. I don't think my reading of that scene is flawed. I accept that I could be wrong (and the "making of" excerpt posted here suggests that I may be) but I stand by my logic.

I have been rewatching that scene with my Blu-Ray version of 2001. I agree with your points about the scene and how the "tablet" Dave puts down looks different from those far away camera shots than what Frank is shown to be watching (in the distant camera shots). I do think though that the tablet device Dave carries in and lays on the table is supposed to be the same device the both of them end up watching their interview on while eating (the screen must be white when it is off). If you watch the HD version of the movie you can actually see the device is called an "IBM Tele-Pad". The IBM logo is on the bottom right of the device, although you probably can't make out the "Tele-Pad" words unless you see it in HD. I Googled "IBM Tele-Pad" and a reviewer of the movie on Amazon.com also spotted it. The device also has 10 buttons that are numbered from 1 thru 9 and another character I can't make out. It seems that when Dave put the Tele-Pad on the table before getting his food he actually put it down upside down as the bottom of the Tele-Pad with the thicker bezel and the IBM Tele-Pad logo on the right can be seen. I guess you can make the assumption that Dave turned the Tele-Pad around to the viewing position it is eventually shown at when he sat down to eat. With the name "IBM Tele-Pad" you can make the assumption that this device was just meant to view television. A few scenes later you can see Dave and Frank writing on tablets while in the cockpit of the Discovery but they appear to be writing with conventional pen (or pencil) and paper on some sort of clipboard.

Someone posted this HD clip from 2001 showing the IBM Tele-Pad. You have to watch it in 720p but even at full screen it is hard to make out the text below the IBM logo. You can see it better on the Blu-Ray version.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQkXSDKcslI
 
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I have been rewatching that scene with my Blu-Ray version of 2001. I agree with your points about the scene and how the "tablet" Dave puts down looks different from those far away camera shots than what Frank is shown to be watching (in the distant camera shots). I do think though that the tablet device Dave carries in and lays on the table is supposed to be the same device the both of them end up watching their interview on while eating (the screen must be white when it is off). If you watch the HD version of the movie you can actually see the device is called an "IBM Tele-Pad". The IBM logo is on the bottom right of the device, although you probably can't make out the "Tele-Pad" words unless you see it in HD. I Googled "IBM Tele-Pad" and a reviewer of the movie on Amazon.com also spotted it. The device also has 10 buttons that are numbered from 1 thru 9 and another character I can't make out. It seems that when Dave put the Tele-Pad on the table before getting his food he actually put it down upside down as the bottom of the Tele-Pad with the thicker bezel and the IBM Tele-Pad logo on the right can be seen. I guess you can make the assumption that Dave turned the Tele-Pad around to the viewing position it is eventually shown at when he sat down to eat. With the name "IBM Tele-Pad" you can make the assumption that this device was just meant to view television. A few scenes later you can see Dave and Frank writing on tablets while in the cockpit of the Discovery but they appear to be writing with conventional pen (or pencil) and paper on some sort of clipboard.

If it was just meant for television the format would be quite meh (portrait over widescreen makes little sense). The tele-pad or newspad does A/V+text, at least if we are to trust "making of.." materials, movie posters etc.
 
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Optheduim said:
I'm not entirely clear on why they are suing over the "shell" of another tablet anyway! I mean, all tablets pretty much look the same. I have an iPad, big poppa has an HP P.O.S. and my 95 year old grandmother calls them both a flat computer!!!

**but really? they brought in a really good, but really old movie???? so when somebody makes a new bluetooth device that is metallic will the bring in a scene from star trek?

Really? Beam me the frig up scotty!!!

That is the thing though they don't look the same. It seems some people have a very broad definition of sameness like all cars look the same or all white people look the same.

In one case you have two twelve year old boys one with dark hair and olive skin and another with red hair and pale skin and then you have two 12 year old identical twins. Saying all of those 12 year old boys look the same would be wrong even if they shared some similarities. Then you see the twins and they do indeed look the same.

In another thread i posted pictures of a brick l, a postcard and the book of mormon. Some people here would claim they are the same because they are all rectangles. They might even claim there is no way to make them different.

There are so many tablets that do not look like an iPad it is impossible to accept the claim that a tablet can only look like an iPad.
 
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That article is just another irrational apple hater. It is good to see the sketches though as they are clearly show an iPhone and an iPod and not the generic and crude representations he claims.

With a few drawings who disproves his own argument. People he could get a gig consulting for the Samsung legal team

Funny thing is apple suing on the community design having to do with their actual production devices so again the guy sabotages his own attacks on apple. That apple is defending itself in regards to designs of their actual products makes the method or amount of apple filings irrelevant. Apple is not suing Samsung based on a community design for a design that is not an actual product. That article fortifies Apple's position and their lawsuit.

And he is an Apple hater because...

And yet another post insulting everyone which doesn't have the same opinion than you.

Do you to the same in the real life or only behind the anonymity of a computer screen?


In another thread i posted pictures of a brick l, a postcard and the book of mormon. Some people here would claim they are the same because they are all rectangles. They might even claim there is no way to make them different

You can think it but it won't be real.

If the design patent is invalidated or Apple doesn't win the case you still will accuse all the people that is ignorant or doesn't understand?
 
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weespeed said:
For those of you who think Samsung is crazy and this is grasping at straws need to look into a man in the late 60's named Charles Hall.
He tried to patent the waterbed. Yes the waterbed but was denied by the uspo in the 60's because of prior art. Where did this prior art come from? A science fiction writer by the name of Robert Heinlein and his writings of a 'hydraulic bed'.
Samsung maybe on to something here.
here's a good read. http://dhowell.com/wet-dreams-the-history-of-the-water-bed/

“My contribution was the modern day water bed that, at its peak, sold like $2 billion a year in water bed accessories, in that era, and was nearly 20 percent of the market,” said Hall. Not to mention helping to spawn Generation X. In this case, however, bringing children in the world was apparently easier than gaining a patent.
Due to references in sci-fi author Robert Heinlein’s oevre, most notably the 1961 fantasy Stranger in a Strange Land, the United States Patent Office refused to issue Hall a patent on the grounds that the authors descriptions of a “hydraulic bed” constituted “prior art,” meaning that even though it was never made, it was, for all intents and purposes, invented.

You did read the part where he did get the patents and thus the prior art claim was not upheld?
 
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divinox said:
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No, but you don't seem to know the issues here nor do you know what an iPad looks like. You keep posting irrelevant pics in all these threads. It is like you think spamming these irrelevant pics will mean something. Maybe you can go to work as an investigator for the Samsung legal team and get paid in atta boys

(i) i am paid already, but if you hear Samsung talking about giving away free money let me know.

(ii) LTD whined about the newspad being "imaginary". I showed him non-imaginary -- pre ipad/iphone -- devices. Devices that do share most of the (generic) design elements with the ipad. Feel free to find that irrelevant all you like. In the end im not the one thinking Apple invented the icon.

You really seem to have a fundamental comprehension problem.

You post endless pics of tablets claiming prior art when instead all you do is prove there are lots of other tablet designs out there. You do not even understand what you yourself are saying or doing. I never said apple invented the icon. I commented on the comparison of icons that were clearly copies

I guess since you don't understand when things dont look alike it stands to reason you also do not know when items look alike. It is like you have some sort of toggle switch that is flipped the wrong way.
 
Being a design patent there is a good chance for Samsung's approach to work. Even Donald Duck is famous for getting in the way of a good patent (on how to raise a sunken ship - mythbusters covered it as well). There even more recent movies that they could draw from, namely Episode 1. Then toss in all of Star Trek it just gets silly. The simple problem Apple faces is, tablet design has been pretty much set from a usability stand point for years and mostly evolved from the entertainment industry and science fiction writers who starting work on determining what did and did not make sense.

Its going to be fun to watch regardless. I hope Apple does lose; I do have an iPad2 fwiw.
 
So Samsungs prior art claim requires the judge to watch 2001 in total? Can you highlight that in Samsungs filing?

If the judge is worth his salt then yes, he would do proper research and watch the whole film. Otherwise he may conclude the same as some of the people here that the display is in fact part of the table.
 
Nope. Limits of visual effects (and budget) at the time meant they kept their tablets on the table and their hands/heads/bodies out of way.
In fact, there are absolutely no "computer graphics" or "digital effects" anywhere in 2001. Every single computer in the film was faked using analog technology (projected film/video/colored lights/compositing). Today we use computers to simulate all sorts of other things in movies, but in 1968 they had to use other things to simulate computers.
 
Apple hasn't legally established trade dress yet. That's what they're trying to get a ruling on in their lawsuits around the world.

As the linked analysis noted, Apple succesfully sued E-Machines and another company for infringing on the Mac's trade-dress back in 2000 - effectvely removing them from the marketplace. This isn't the same thing as suing Microsoft for "look and feel."

As far as the icons go, I think you are being disingenuous by looking ONLY at those differences. It is not necessary to have an exact copy of a rival's trademark in order to infringe. Again, the standard isn't "an exact copy" - it is more on the line of "was it designed so that people could be confused about the origin." If you look at the list of System App icons provided, it seems pretty clear to me that Samsung made it as close as possible - and certainly in a way that Smartphones from, say, Windows Phone or Blackberry don't.

The bigger point is this: All of these items will be litigated in court. Apple may prevail on all, some, or none of the claims.

But it is also worth noting that Apple isn't being "the bad guy" here. They have every right to protect, by legal means, their investment in the iPhone and iPad. Apple paid many millions in salaries to Americans who worked long and hard designing the iPad, its packaging, and the way its software works. I think they - at the very least - have the right to use our nation's (and that of other countries) legal system in order to protect that investment, and by extension the labor if its employees.

To those of you defending Samsung, try asking yourself a few questions.

How would YOU feel if, after spending thousands of hours and dollars creating say, the perfect Flash website game, one of your rivals simply copied the entire thing, from the way animations worked, to the color of the backgrounds, to the code that ran it? This copyist simply changed a few random elements here and there to give a gloss of respectability to his theft.

Would you think it was wrong for you to go to court to prevent this copying? Would you think you were "inhibiting innovation" (among Flash developers) if you took this guy to court?

Or would you feel that his argument that "Flash websites with dragons existed long before Joe Chump made one" - somehow excused his ripping off 99.5% of the elements that made your Flash website with dragons unique was somewhat absurd?

Apple has the right to sue Samsung. Its up to the courts to determine whether or not their claims are valid.
 
Apple isn't suing Samsung for creating a "Tablet-like device."

In the original US lawsuit they're suing Samsung for infringing/violating on 4 different types of IP simultaneously: Patent, Design Patent, Trademark and Trade Dress.

That's all well and good, except this story relates to one part of Samsungs defense against the Design patent asserted against them in Europe, and that concerns the Galaxy tab 10.1 only.

Here's the design patent in question: http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-000181607-0001

As you can see, they are indeed suing Samsung for creating "a Tablet-like device."

Apple wasn't granted a patent on a rectangular tablet computing device. It didn't ask for one, and wouldn't have been granted one if they had. So the "prior art" argument is pretty much irrelevant.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-000181607-0001

They were, they did, it was, it's relevant.

Apple WAS granted numerous trademark and patent protections on various design and functional elements (the metallic bezel, the shape, color, arrangement, etc. of the System App icons) as well as their Trade Dress (ie. Apple's destinctive packaging.)

Different Kettle of fish. European tablet fish to be exact.

That is what Apple is suing Samsung over - NOT the "idea" of a tablet computer or touchscreen smartphone.

Not in Europe, where the injunction was granted based on a design patent and concerns the Galaxy tab 10.1 only.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-000181607-0001

Would one of you Samsung-apologists kindly aknowledge this very simple (and frankly incontrovertible) fact?

Please read this analysis for further proof.

That's the US, not Europe. Samsung are using a design-patent defense against a design-patent injunction in Europe.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-000181607-0001


But saying Apple is suing Samsung over the "idea" of a rectangular tablet is flat out wrong.

Sure, if by flat out wrong you mean flat out right.
 
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No, but you don't seem to know the issues here nor do you know what an iPad looks like. You keep posting irrelevant pics in all these threads. It is like you think spamming these irrelevant pics will mean something. Maybe you can go to work as an investigator for the Samsung legal team and get paid in atta boys

La la la la la la ......I Can't hear you......

lalala-i-cant-hear-you.jpg



Are you Mental ?

Those pictures are totally relevant !
 
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I'm no lawyer, but how does a pretend device prove prior art?

because it's art.
 
As we all know, Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor...

no he didnt... it was Kashyyk..... yeah, i love Star Wars and im a nerd... what of it?

Also, if this works for Samsung.... reckon the patent holders of the props from 2001 could sue Apple?
 
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You really seem to have a fundamental comprehension problem.

When someone thinks that everyone else has issues a mirror might come in handy.

You post endless pics of tablets claiming prior art when instead all you do is prove there are lots of other tablet designs out there. You do not even understand what you yourself are saying or doing. I never said apple invented the icon. I commented on the comparison of icons that were clearly copies

(i) If you worry about your claims, i worry about mine. Arguing against straw men are rarely much fun.

(ii) you must be like, 13 years old. Thats the only reasonable explanation i can think of for your ignorance. The icons are not copies. Second, by your statement you are implying that Sammy copied Apple (i.e. Apple is original). As already shown in the thread this couldnt be more wrong. Phones have always been green, pads have always been used for notes, Musical notes have always been used for (guess what) music and so on.

I guess since you don't understand when things dont look alike it stands to reason you also do not know when items look alike. It is like you have some sort of toggle switch that is flipped the wrong way.

See the first paragraph.
 
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