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Samsung Fails to Win Presidential Veto of Potential U.S. Import Ban in Apple Patent Case
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HA! Have you even been to South Korea? I have. The ONLY American-made product I saw for both times I've been there were American Standard URINALS. Everything else is Korean-made.
Do some research before accusing the American government of being protectionistic. The South Korean government is by far more protectionistic.
Yeah. Don't worry about debating the differences between the two cases, the way you worded it is so much more scintillating.
Its actually in their laws and in many countries laws that a certain percentage of product needs to be made in country. Asian countries are more dramatic than Europeans.
These are politicians. All they care about is money and prestige. So, yes - I do think that Obama gave preference to Apple in this case because Apple is based in the USA and Samsung is not.
Clueless, clueless, clueless. And in total disregard of reality.
Rules for standard essential patents and FRAND patents are different from rules for non-essential patents. Samsung had already agreed that anyone is allowed to use their patents. A matter of "fair and reasonable" price, but everyone is allowed to use them. Because everyone is allowed to use them, an import ban when the only open question is the cost of the patent is entirely inappropriate.
Apple's patents are not standard essential, they are not essential at all. As proven by Samsung itself. Apple hasn't agreed to let anyone use these patents. That's the difference.
You should also consider that Samsung has been threatened with a multi billion Euro fine for anti-competitive behaviour if they try to ban any phones for use of standard essential patents; the same patents that have been vetoed.
Irrelevant. Care to debate this on the merits presented in this forum? It's just too easy, and quite frankly lazy, to use the US vs. South Korea protectionism argument.
You failed to notice the substantial difference between both cases - standard essential vs. not standard essential patents. And you forget that Nellie Kroes offered to whip Samsung's arse if they continue to try to ban phones for use of standard essential patents in the EU, so this has nothing to do with USA vs. non-USA.
Motoroogle tried to extract several billion dollars from Microsoft for the use of standard essential patents in the Xbox. That was cut down to single million dollars, but because of all the shenanigans that Motorola performed, they are actually paying now to Microsoft. That's US company vs. US company, so there you go.
A ban being upheld in either case would barely affect either company. The banned products are old and we're being phased out anyways.
That being said, Obama could be making a statement to the Korean government. I.e. Stop protecting Korean companies at let the free market work.
You're failing because of your Apple bias. For example, you wrote:
This is an Apple claim, it is not a fact. It is an ex post Apple defense as to why they have not paid for a license despite knowingly using the IP.
Right now, Apple is practicing without a license. They are clearly in the wrong. Samsung MAY be in the wrong.
Being lazy? Really? Stealing patents? Really?
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Your response is also framed from Apple's perspective.
"Negotiate the price" also takes the Apple position (though you probably think this is legit because of a recent Posner comment).
If you said "compel the license" or "enforce the patents" you would be better describing the purpose of the first veto.
These are FRAND patents - there really isn't much room for negotiation.
I agree that it's debatable what has been offered as fair and reasonable with regards to the SEP's but that is not grounds for an import ban. That's grounds to sue in court and try and get Apple to be held responsible to pay a fair and reasonable price. Remember, these are standard and essential patents we're talking about.
Samsung easily showed a work-around to the Apple patents, so the fact they used them in the first place is lazy. Or arrogant, thinking they could get away with it.
Standard essential patents is a new idea that's more or less a couple decades old. It's when patent law mushes up against anti-trust.
Why is this important? Your use of the word "rules" makes it sound like standard essential is well codified in law.
It isn't.
Nor is running to the President for a veto of the outcome of "the rules."
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Apparently the courts thought it was grounds. That was the decision the president vetoed...
It's probably not lazy. They probably either didn't know or didn't think they were important or didn't think they were legit (you said yourself they were easy to work around).
Reality is the patent system is incredibly complex, slow and ambiguous which is why there's so much litigation in the first place.
But, even ignoring those realities, Samsung received about 5000 patents in 2012, about 5 times as many as Apple did. Does that make them lazy?
Ok, let's go with arrogant. I agree that fits more with Samsung as a whole. They seem to have little regard for what the law says and appear to act like they're above it.
Wonder how many in us congress are paid by asmedung to create havoc on the us economy...
I have two TVs in the house and both are Samsung. I have two sound bars and both are Samsung. Connected to them are Apple TVs. Maybe one day when/if Apple releases a TV and sound bar I can say what you say. I am not a Samsung fan on the mobile platform because Apple is prettier, and Android sucks. I will leave the dirty industrial espionage issues to the lawyers.
Funny enough, almost the only American-made product I see here in US are the American Standard URINALS. There must be something else in play here, I guess.
I think all this patent litigation has shown is that both companies are arrogant and generally horrible.
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End to the patent madness...
Apple should just use some of their hoarded cash to buy Samsung and call it a day.
(Before anybody gets their undies in a twist, I'm joking, of course.)
Apple should just use some of their hoarded cash to buy Samsung and call it a day.
(Before anybody gets their undies in a twist, I'm joking, of course.)
You might want to edit your post. You got that PRECISELY backwards.
Apple offered to license Samsung's FRAND patents but Samsung either refused or demanded a pound of flesh. They then sued Apple for infringement when the rules that govern FRAND EXPLICITLY state that you may not do that.
Samsung on the other hand clearly, deliberately and flagrantly copied Apples patents. IP that was NOT FRAND, NOT open for licensing, and not standards essential.
Apple tried to be the good guy and has been victimized. Samsung is the thief and should be slapped down as often and as hard as possible.
You made the same comment on AppleInsider. Anything of any real value to say?
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Even Apple isn't this immature...