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And where is the proof that the bulk of android phones are el-cheapo? I don't have any proof (except anecdotally) to say they are not, but I certainly haven't seen any data to back up this assertion that android haters are so quick to throw around.

I don't have any data handy, but the figures Android enthusiasts like to throw around regarding "user base" beating iOS include all Android based phones, from the v1.6 crap phones out there, up to the latest Droid Incredible Fantastic Nexus Uno whatever phone.

These older Android OS phones in circulation are usually free or buy one get one free. This is not an indication of "popularity" like the user base of iPhone suggests. The web browsing statistics published a while ago bears out the fact that owners of the lesser-Android phones couldn't care less about using their phone to the fullest, most widget-y maximum.

In fact, the data shows that android phones have around 25% of the web presence that iOS has. What this tells me is that most Android users do not even use their awesome powerful phones to even surf the net, let alone purchase and use apps. And you could hardly call them Android enthusiasts, but "thrifty" might apply. :)

Without users of the OS who want software, and without safeguards against easy piracy of software, not to mention the need to support so many device hardwares and screens, Android is not a very appealing market for a developer. Once iPad 2 clinches another 40 million new users this year, iPad developers will be playing to a field of over 50 million users who know how to use the easy-peasy App Store and are willing to throw down for cool software.

Meanwhile, Android will have to satisfied capturing the highly lucrative "weather widget" and animated wallpaper crowd.
 
Wow, the reality distortion field is strong in this thread! Look, I own (and have owned) all iPhones as well as both the iPad and now iPad2. I think the decision has gotten a little harder lately at least on the phone side, with devices like the Atrix and the dramatic improvements to both refinement and functionality of android OS. I expect the iPhone 5 will be a tough call for me given the trends (of course, not knowing what will be included). Pretty clear to me that many of you guys will jump on it no matter what, and that's cool with me.

The hardware, software and price on recent android devices have made it competitive with any iPhone. It'll probably happen on the tablet side as well. You guys are fooling yourselves if you think Android is an inferior OS which is only selling because it's cheap.
 
Wow, the reality distortion field is strong in this thread!

I saw people addressing your points and holes in your argument. Now I see you saying they are just plain wrong by virtue of not sharing your position (RDF, tee hee hee!).

Pretty clear to me that many of you guys will jump on it no matter what, and that's cool with me.

Instead of addressing what people have said, or retiring from the thread, or admitting you are wrong, you've made up something which has no evidence ('people don't have good reasons for buying the Apple products they do') and then patted yourself on the back for being so understanding. Come on.

You guys are fooling yourselves if you think Android is an inferior OS which is only selling because it's cheap.

You're fooling yourself if you think anybody said "Android is an inferior OS which is only selling because it's cheap", if you think that the fact that it comes on cheap devices has nothing to do with its marketshare, and if you think comparing a multiple-product OS marketshare to one device's marketshare is a reasonable comparison.
 
I can't tell if this is a joke or not. Do you really think only "geeks" like cool widgets and animated wallpaper?

Absolutely, yes. Well, geeks and tweens. But the tweens grow out of that quickly.


Your whole message / attitude is a microcosm of why Android appeals to geeks. Geeks think throwing everything into the equation makes a better device. Consumers don't think that way. And Apple, thank god, doesn't think that way.

Animated wallpapers? That's your trump card? Seriously? :rolleyes:
 
The hardware, software and price on recent android devices have made it competitive with any iPhone. It'll probably happen on the tablet side as well. You guys are fooling yourselves if you think Android is an inferior OS which is only selling because it's cheap.

You are missing the point, as do many in the Android fanbase. The reason for Android's success (if you want to call it that), is that every hardware manufacturer was using it on every type of phone you can imagine. A lot of these phones were sold for very little cash, or buy one get one free. This put a ton of phones into many thrifty hands, hence a "success". In terms of revenue though, not so much.

This can not be compared to a product that in terms of price, rivals PC's. A hardware company has a lot more to lose if a tablet with their name on it fails. Failure on one phone means very little. Those can be replaced within days. Not so much with a tablet. If anything, what you have seen from Samsung and Motorola should be a very clear indicator of this.
Not to mention, the consumer base is less likely to throw $500-$900 away on tablets they have no confidence in. People know Apple will be around, will update the OS, and support the product. Without that confidence, people won't buy an Android based product and if the people don't buy it, it disappears. Again, I give you the Galaxy Tab, Dell Streak, and Xoom as exampled of failing or failed products.
 
In fact, the data shows that android phones have around 25% of the web presence that iOS has.

iOS grew its smartphone web presence by 17% in Jan. Android by 44%. It's still behind iOS, but likely not for long.
 
iOS grew its smartphone web presence by 17% in Jan. Android by 44%. It's still behind iOS, but likely not for long.

Did this include all iPad's and iPod Touches, since both access the web and use iOS?
Seems kind of unfair to combine all smartphones that run the Android OS against just the iPhone, when clearly two other devices also run iOS and access the internet. Or do you limit this to just smartphones in an attempt to make Android look better than it actually is?
 
You are missing the point, as do many in the Android fanbase. The reason for Android's success (if you want to call it that), is that every hardware manufacturer was using it on every type of phone you can imagine. A lot of these phones were sold for very little cash, or buy one get one free. This put a ton of phones into many thrifty hands, hence a "success". In terms of revenue though, not so much.

I don't think I am missing the point. I'm looking for proof that what you're describing here is indeed the basis for Android's growth, and meanwhile I'm providing alternate explanations. No one seems to have much hard data.

Carouser: there are four or five of you arguing with me here, and at least two of you are writing off Android as an inferior and unappealing OS. I can't respond to everyone's points (partly because I'm writing on an iPad and no a computer), but I can certainly point at specific areas where Android is appealing, not only to "geeks" as has been stated above. It's just interesting to me how people react to anyone who shows anything but the utmost praise for the iPad!
 
iOS grew its smartphone web presence by 17% in Jan. Android by 44%. It's still behind iOS, but likely not for long.

17% and 44% compared to what? To what they already had? If so, that's not that impressive for a newer OS and is again a misleading comparison.

It's just interesting to me how people react to anyone who shows anything but the utmost praise for the iPad!

Just to be clear, they are reacting to you being wrong and having weak arguments, not because 'you've shown anything but the utmost praise for the iPad'. Stop making up this fantasy world of fanboys or whatever because it doesn't exist.

Yes, I agree that iOS doesn't have animated wallpaper! High-five! Clearly the non-Apple device doesn't require one to use iTunes! These are clear advantages! Nobody cares!
 
It's about promoting what is right and the truth.

"right and truth"? what has that ever had to do with advertising? there is no truth in advertising; never has been and probably never will be.

for more than 2000 years, the Romans gave our society at least three major accomplishments: organized Christianity, concrete (which they stole from the Etruscians), and the concept of "caveat emptor".

People lie; people will always lie (although not always about everything - House, MD).

you have a responsibility to check things out for yourself, especially advertising claims because advertising isn't the business of creating truth (neither is organized religion, so the Romans got that right 2000 years ago also); advertising is in the business of increasing sales by presenting pleasant, associated fantasies for people to enjoy vicariously.

you uncovered Samsung's advertising agency's lame attempt to spin a fantasy. bravo, but that's all it is.


Schools do the students a great disservice by not teaching this.
 
Did this include all iPad's and iPod Touches, since both access the web and use iOS?
Seems kind of unfair to combine all smartphones that run the Android OS against just the iPhone, when clearly two other devices also run iOS and access the internet. Or do you limit this to just smartphones in an attempt to make Android look better than it actually is?

Hard to say for sure, here's the article:

http://gigaom.com/apple/2-percent-of-web-browsing-is-from-ios-devices/

They make some conclusions and forecasts at the end, which are interesting, but we'll see.
 
From 0.25% to 0.5%, that's the whopping 44% increase? Compared to Apple's meager transition from 1% to 1.25%? lololol someone should look up 'statistically significant'
 
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Personally, I want products that push me to do things differently - not just give me what I've had in the past in a new form factor. That's where Apple excels and why Google is going to always be a follower, much like MS has been. When you only control one side of the consumer experience, like Google and all the android-using manufacturers, you're not selling the system. This allows too many opportunities for problems and failures and gives the consumer potentially poor experiences.

I know people who chose android phones because their cell provider didn't offer the iPhone. Two people in particular have absolutely no idea how to use their phones for some basic things that I take for granted in the "closed" Apple system. Things like syncing contacts, calendars, photos, etc for these two people are impossible feats - I ask them why they can't just add contacts I'm emailing to them to their phone and then their computers - or instead of sending me the photos they took on the phone from the phone, to just wait until they sync with their computer and send it from their "fast" wired device.

There just isn't the same type of ease-of-use that Apple has created. No, Apple doesn't allow "tweaking" that so many "power-users" seem to demand, but for some basic smartphone users, they're not even getting the benefit of being able to do the things I take for granted with the iPhone and its integration with OSX.
 
Just to be clear, they are reacting to you being wrong and having weak arguments, not because 'you've shown anything but the utmost praise for the iPad'. Stop making up this fantasy world of fanboys or whatever because it doesn't exist.

Yes, I agree that iOS doesn't have animated wallpaper! High-five! Clearly the non-Apple device doesn't require one to use iTunes! These are clear advantages! Nobody cares!

No, it's clear now that I'm reacting to you sounding like a 13-year old jack*ss.

I'm done with this thread. Cue the "don't let the door hit you" jokes, and you guys can continue salivating amongst youselves over iOS and how unmatched and untouchable it is. If you look at my post history, I think you'll find that I am truly an iOS owner and not just some android fanboy trying to start a flamewar, but some of you act as if to criticize iOS is to insult your mother. It's amusing.
 
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Like every corporation in the US, Apple constantly lies in their advertising too (extremely clear FaceTime pictures, "whole" Internet claim, etc.), so what's the issue here?
 
THat video was from the official launch at CTIA, why unveil them, showing them off like that if they're not going to release them? you're really not good at just holding your hands up and admitting you're wrong.

here's another article about the unveiling with a picture. http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/mobile-...s-galaxy-tab-89-and-thinner-101-tab-40092240/

Say what?

- Those models look identical to the non-working mockups that were found to be thicker than the iPad 2. We have pictures that prove this.
- Where is the actual working tablet?

You have to answer the actual question instead of telling me that I am wrong. Did Samsung show the tablet that was actually working and thinner than the iPad? You can point out a picture or video for evidence.
 
It is called marketing. If everyone said the truth about everything, nothing would be ever sold.

Apple is more "guilty" of marketing than any other company I know.
 
I don't have any data handy, but the figures Android enthusiasts like to throw around regarding "user base" beating iOS include all Android based phones, from the v1.6 crap phones out there, up to the latest Droid Incredible Fantastic Nexus Uno whatever phone.

Without data, such a post is pretty meaningless.

These older Android OS phones in circulation are usually free or buy one get one free. This is not an indication of "popularity" like the user base of iPhone suggests.

So you want to throw out all sales below... well, what arbitrary price are you thinking of?

The iPhone 3GS has been $49 for a while now. The iPhone 3GS/4 have been available free, or nearly so, on contract in various countries for at least a couple of years.

Not that you're wrong that lower prices help. For example, the iPhone failed to sell well in Japan until they started giving them away for free there. Suddenly "sales" jumped literally by millions. Are you saying those shouldn't count toward any totals?
 
Say what?

- Those models look identical to the non-working mockups that were found to be thicker than the iPad 2. We have pictures that prove this.
- Where is the actual working tablet?

You have to answer the actual question instead of telling me that I am wrong. Did Samsung show the tablet that was actually working and thinner than the iPad? You can point out a picture or video for evidence.

why would they have them at the official launch if they're not the ones being released???? if they weren't what was going to be release, why would they have called it the official unveiling?! get a clue mate
 
why would they have them at the official launch if they're not the ones being released???? if they weren't what was going to be release, why would they have called it the official unveiling?! get a clue mate

yeah cause samsung is ALWAYS honest.:rolleyes:
 
Yeah, like all of those people that Apple have in their videos saying how much they love whatever products are promotong are not actors. :rolleyes:

If Apple were to claim real-world testimonials then I would gladly criticize them for it. But Samsung prefaced this whole thing like it was real-world experiences and opinions from real people. Media is reporting that they even used the actor's real names but gave them fake career information. They even produced a mock-up magazine article that when paused contains the text of an actual Time Magazine content from last year that was a negative review of the original Galaxy Tab (read this).

You be the judge:

229400221_samsung_v_ipad_thin4.jpg
229400221_samsung_v_ipad_thin5.jpg

Both are poor pictures, especially the one on the left, but the Samsung does look thicker. If that really is the latest revision of the Galaxy, Samsung made a false claim.

The media is reporting that the Galaxy Tab Prototypes are actually thicker than the iPad 2.

Get your head out of the sand. Most people are going for Android smartphones.....

Apple certainly made a poor move here with carrier exclusivity which let Android get a foothold on Verizon which served as a proving ground from which it has branched out over the world. But people should realize that the "smart phone market share" for Android is very misrepresented. Those numbers that Google boasts of includes branches of the Android source tree that were forked in China, have replaced Google search engine and services with local services, and sold to millions and millions of people as cheap low-end phones. The "real" Android phones, like those from HTC, Motorola, Samsung, and LG are likely still behind the iPhone in total market share -- it is "hardly" a blow-out-of-the-water success that you make it out to be. What is a blow-out-of-the-water success is the "iPad" and uhhhh... the "iPad 2".

And the smartphone market is no indication of the tablet market unless you think that Android phones will have a really powerful halo effect.

BTW... A friend of mine at church got an Android tablet last year and it has been nothing but disappointment. He can't even give it away to his teenage kids. He felt he was duped by the salesperson into thinking it would do what an iPad does. He bought it because he owns an HTC EVO 4G mobile phone and thought having the same OS would be good. He likes his EVO, hates his ePad.

Xoom is already stopping production

The tab looks great i think, however i wouldnt say a company is finding a way to beat the ipad when they are pricing it so low that they loose money

I believe that this rumor has not been verified and that Motorola is denying that this is the case. One thing I MUST say for Motorola -- that while the Xoom is a bit "unfinished", it is a working production device. Samsung must be very envious that their first Honeycomb tablet is going to wait till at least June to ship. Xoom is not vaporware, but those new Galaxy Tab models are.

"early adopters and curiosity seekers"

That's a good one. :p

I agree -- If iPad represented the launch of a new game console (which it far exceeded any game console launch in the first nine months), nobody would call those people "early adopters" and "curiosity seekers". The reason that some Android fans believe that tablets are fad for curiosity seekers is that they may be right. They believe that their is a "tablet" category of product that people have a demand for. The truth is though that the only useful tablets out there right now are the iPad and iPad 2. The demand is for the iPad not for tablets. iPad 2 launch will far exceed iPad and Apple will sell more in one month than the Android tablets do all year. If you are looking at tablets collectively and trying to fit iPad into that category of other not-ready-for-primtetime devices and your only experience is with those Android tablets, then your reaction may very well be "this thing is not very useful yet" -- and you would be right -- those Android tablets ARE for early adopters and curiosity seekers.

Even the Motorola Xoom which is functional and does a good job is like a beta product. My brother-in-law was one of the first people in my city to own one. When I asked him about what new apps he had gotten the other day his response was "apps are kinda slow coming for Honeycomb -- I just barely got a version of Words with Friends that works". My brother-in-law is an early adopter and sold on the Android ecosystem. However, these devices are not ready for the masses because beyond web browsing maps, music and basic functions, they don't provide the killer app to appeals to each individual that makes them worth it. I think Android will eventually catch up in many regards, but I think Apple will continue to innovate. The two will converge in some areas and diverge in others -- it will be good for the consumer. For me, Android has always felt like an unfinished project -- I imagine their tablets will feel the same for me.
 
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Like every corporation in the US, Apple constantly lies in their advertising too (extremely clear FaceTime pictures, "whole" Internet claim, etc.), so what's the issue here?

God forbid anyone question Lord Jobs and his church.

And all of this Samsung hate is hilarious. "Samsung is crap, a bunch of copy cats, etc."

That's why they are the world's largest electronics company. :rolleyes:
 
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