Samsung Proposes Deal with Apple for Galaxy Tab Launch in Australia

[kdarling]

That's the problem, part of the "time and money developing" was actually Apple's time and money developing that Samsung apparently stole, no doubt using the advantage of being an Apple component supplier to get early peeks at some of Apples technological innovations, only to use it in their own products and claim it as their own.

For the iPad2, Apple only used Samsung Flash memory and a Samsung LCD timing chip. Samsung also fab'd the CPU.

In this imaginary scenario of yours, what Apple secrets (besides part quantities) did you think Samsung could steal from Apple buying those raw components?

Samsung wouldn't have access to the iPad case, or circuit boards, or LCD, or software, or anything of real design consequence to copy. Everyone knows Apple's penchant for security even within its own campus, much less outside of it. We all saw how surprised Samsung was at the iPad2 thinness when it was finally shown to the public.

 

[CalWizrd]

... The world must be a confusing and frustrating place for you...

I would guess that I disagree with virtually everything you post, but I've got to admit... you're a funny guy.

 

[rockrigo]

For the iPad2, Apple only used Samsung Flash memory and a Samsung LCD timing chip. Samsung also fab'd the CPU.

In this imaginary scenario of yours, what Apple secrets (besides part quantities) did you think Samsung could steal from Apple buying those raw components?

Samsung wouldn't have access to the iPad case, or circuit boards, or LCD, or software, or anything of real design consequence to copy. Everyone knows Apple's penchant for security.

was asking myself the same question, I used to work for a component supplier and all we got was part numbers and quantity they wanted, never anything showing how/what those components would be used for (unless they willfully told us but I doubt Apple would share all their secrets with Samsung)

 

[TMay]

For the iPad2, Apple only used Samsung Flash memory and a Samsung LCD timing chip. Samsung also fab'd the CPU.

In this imaginary scenario of yours, what Apple secrets (besides part quantities) did you think Samsung could steal from Apple buying those raw components?

Samsung wouldn't have access to the iPad case, or circuit boards, or LCD, or software, or anything of real design consequence to copy. Everyone knows Apple's penchant for security even within its own campus, much less outside of it. We all saw how surprised Samsung was at the iPad2 thinness when it was finally shown to the public.

I agree that Samsung had no knowledge of the package, at least until someone at Samsung bought an iPad and did a teardown, which is pretty much standard industry practice.

Or, just go to iFixit and see the photos.

 

[hot spare]

Maybe 32nm fabrication process for SoC and 20nm DDR3 RAM...one can only dream. Exynos will be the first SoC to use a 32nm fabrication. Maybe it will be stuffed inside the Nexus Prime.

For people who thinks Samsung is small, they are investing 10billion on these fab.

 

[kdarling]

Apple applied for an injunction in Germany and in the Netherlands. They won in Germany. Guess which one is the bigger market.

A few more details:

1) The German court upheld their original automatic preliminary injunction, pending the court case outcome.

2) They based their decision solely on the rounded rectangle EU Design document which predated the iPad and didn't even have a Home button... the exact same EU drawing that the Netherlands ignored as too obvious.

3) They could only legally stop direct sales from Samsung Korea to Germany. Stores are free to buy stock from suppliers outside of Germany.

4) The court also decided they couldn't stop sales in the rest of the EU, which is a bigger market than Germany.

 

[vvswarup]

Samsung is probably proposing not to sue Apple for the iPhone 5 like they said they would if Apple agrees to a deal

Samsung is threatening to sue Apple over a piece of vaporware (iPhone 5)? If Samsung were to actually make that kind of a threat, the next question from Apple should be how they know anything about an iPhone 5.

Samsung's mobile division and components division are two separate business units. The components division is the only division within Samsung that ought to know anything about the iPhone 5. If the mobile division knows about the iPhone 5, then something is wrong.

 

[kdarling]

Samsung is threatening to sue Apple over a piece of vaporware (iPhone 5)? If Samsung were to actually make that kind of a threat, the next question from Apple should be how they know anything about an iPhone 5.

If Samsung thinks they hold IP on something that Apple has been using in their iPhones so far, then they could very likely threaten the iPhone 5 ahead of time....

... similar to the way Apple did when they sued Samsung in Germany without first seeing the German version of the Tab in person.

(Apple's injunction request states this, saying that since they didn't have access to the real thing, the pictures in their legal documents came from magazines and models sold in other countries.)

So, in a slightly ironic twist, Samsung has begun to copy some of Apple's legal tactics. Attack first, deal with questions later.

 

[TMay]

Maybe 32nm fabrication process for SoC and 20nm DDR3 RAM...one can only dream. Exynos will be the first SoC to use a 32nm fabrication. Maybe it will be stuffed inside the Nexus Prime.

For people who thinks Samsung is small, they are investing 10billion on these fab.

TSMC is building the A6 at 28nm and will follow up with the A7 at 20nm, so Apple looks to be in good shape to compete with other ARM variants. Apple is also getting the 3D die stacking process as well.

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/1...-a6-and-a7-processors-for-future-ios-devices/

----------

If Samsung thinks they hold IP on something that Apple has been using in their iPhones so far, then they could very likely threaten the iPhone 5 ahead of time....

... similar to the way Apple did when they sued Samsung in Germany without first seeing the German version of the Tab in person.

(Apple's injunction request states this, saying that since they didn't have access to the real thing, the pictures in their legal documents came from magazines and models sold in other countries.)

So, in a slightly ironic twist, Samsung has begun to copy Apple's legal tactics.

Samsung's IP is almost certainly FRAND. Even Apple has mentioned this. Good luck in getting an injunction on FRAND IP without any serious attempt at negotiation.

 

[kdarling]

Samsung's IP is almost certainly FRAND. Even Apple has mentioned this. Good luck in getting an injunction on FRAND IP without any serious attempt at negotiation.

FRAND only applies to some of the patents Samsung is suing over, not all of them.

In the Netherlands court a few days ago, the FRAND exchange went loosely like this:

Samsung: we are willing to give Apple FRAND terms.
Apple: we've already paid them through Intel's license.
Samsung: we're talking about Infineon chips before Intel bought them in early 2011.
Apple: okay, then we dispute that your terms are FRAND.

Apparently Samsung's made an offer of 2.4% of the chip price per patent, but Apple says that's too much.

In yet one more twist of irony, Apple got wind that Samsung was going to try for a preliminary injunction against them without Apple being present... just as Apple had pulled on Samsung in the first place. So Apple negotiated a deal where they wouldn't do that to each other any more.

 

[jameskatt]

Apple's deal

Apple's deal to Samsung:

1. Death penalty to all of Samsung's lawyers.
2. 10% royalty on all Android devices.
3. Stop copying Apple. This gives Koreans a bad name.

 

[devinci99]

I for one don't like companies borrowing another company's design/work without doing some sort of patent sharing partnership (AKA pay the other company $$$ to use it's patents in your products) --- everyone wins.

I also don't like a company to be completely stingy and not share their patents even when the other is making efforts to pay royalties for it. I love Apple and its products, but it will hurt competition to completely ban Samsung products from customers even if Samsung is willing to make changes, or pay out royalties (like they did to Microsoft).

Copying (without paying) is bad, but not sharing (when the other is willing to pay fairly) is just as bad.

I understand the need for competitive advantages; thats why you let the powers that be to put a fair price on that advantage and have everyone who is wants to copy you and is willing to pay that price. This drives their cost up, while putting cash in your bank, and still help you maintain some advantage.

This also force the other company while in this partnership to come up with other innovative ways to offer better experience while trying to cut cost elsewhere in order to keep prices down to stay within the competition.

Sometimes its cheaper just to buy out a company who holds the design/prior art/patent; while other times its cheaper to just enter a patent sharing partnership. You can always find new innovative ways and designs to cut cost and increase value (to may paying the additional cost) more justified elsewhere.

 

[dethmaShine]

FRAND only applies to some of the patents Samsung is suing over, not all of them.

In the Netherlands court a few days ago, the FRAND exchange went loosely like this:

Samsung: we are willing to give Apple FRAND terms.
Apple: we've already paid them through Intel's license.
Samsung: we're talking about Infineon chips before Intel bought them in early 2011.
Apple: okay, then we dispute that your terms are FRAND.

Apparently Samsung's made an offer of 2.4% of the chip price per patent, but Apple says that's too much.

In yet one more twist of irony, Apple got wind that Samsung was going to try for a preliminary injunction against them without Apple being present... just as Apple had pulled on Samsung in the first place. So Apple negotiated a deal where they wouldn't do that to each other any more.

Please simply answer this one simple question.

Do you side with Samsung on every little thing that has happened in the recent months?

I mean, I don't see a single post of yours which to any extent condemns Samsung of its actions or IP infringement. All you have is something against Apple.

I agree Apple is not innocent; even Apple has made mistakes and probably blunders in the past. But you seem to condemn Apple's every response in every regard; whether Apple sues Samsung, HTC or motorola or either of them sue Apple.

I thought you were unbiased but all your comments have sided with companies against Apple. I am not saying that you need to side with Apple somewhere, but really all you do is censure Apple's approach and decisions but never ever critic the logistics and approach behind Apple's adversaries.

 

[gkpm]

Knowing a bit about Korea the deal was probably "let us sell our tablet in Australia and we won't have the South Korean government go and find some silly regulation blocking the sales of the next iPad AND iPhone in Korea..."

Plus we'll make sure that idiotic "iPhone tracking" class action goes away quietly.

Corruption? We've heard of it.

For background google: "Samsung slush funds scandal"

 

[mdriftmeyer]

You don't offer a deal unless you know your hand is weak, and the other side knows it as well.

 

[swagi]

Please simply answer this one simple question.

Do you side with Samsung on every little thing that has happened in the recent months?

I mean, I don't see a single post of yours which to any extent condemns Samsung of its actions or IP infringement. All you have is something against Apple.

I agree Apple is not innocent; even Apple has made mistakes and probably blunders in the past. But you seem to condemn Apple's every response in every regard; whether Apple sues Samsung, HTC or motorola or either of them sue Apple.

I thought you were unbiased but all your comments have sided with companies against Apple. I am not saying that you need to side with Apple somewhere, but really all you do is censure Apple's approach and decisions but never ever critic the logistics and approach behind Apple's adversaries.

Hello and welcome to Macrumors.

I've been on this forum for ages and I still love and hug all my Mac computers. I have seen Apple going downhill since Leopard on the computer side. I have seen them switching their business tactics. And I've ssen them playing the big bad bully in the mobile business - lesson learnt from the lost PC war.

Nevertheless I find myself very comfortable with the thought that I will happily boycott iOS devices in the future and I want bully Apple to get a bloody nose.

I personally side with Samsung just for the mere fact that the Galaxy SII runs circles around the iPhone and I sure as hell hope that Apple get a taste of their own medicine, when the iPhone5 (you know - the one that obviously is there but is not released) ist just a mere Galaxy SII ripoff (thinner, bigger screen, rectangle home button).

With whom will you side, when iPhone5 looks damn similar to the Galaxy SII (which from the circulating renders is a given)? With copycat Apple or will you pridefully announce that it was always Apple's plan to intoduce a wider and thinner phone with a rectangle home button???

 

[Oletros]

Apple applied for an injunction in Germany and in the Netherlands. They won in Germany. Guess which one is the bigger market.

Netherlands, because is the entry point to all Europe and the injuction in Netherland would affected ALL the Europe but Germany

 

[Oletros]

its a scopy of the ipad, even samsungs CEO said so, they would wait until Ipad hit the market and then copy it ( not in those exact terminology)

No those terminology and no terminology at all, Samsung presented the Galaxy Tab 10.1 before the iPad 2 and when the iPad 2 was presented they made the Tab slimmer, that was the only change

 

[BlindMellon]

Please simply answer this one simple question.

Do you side with Samsung on every little thing that has happened in the recent months?

I mean, I don't see a single post of yours which to any extent condemns Samsung of its actions or IP infringement. All you have is something against Apple.

I agree Apple is not innocent; even Apple has made mistakes and probably blunders in the past. But you seem to condemn Apple's every response in every regard; whether Apple sues Samsung, HTC or motorola or either of them sue Apple.

I thought you were unbiased but all your comments have sided with companies against Apple. I am not saying that you need to side with Apple somewhere, but really all you do is censure Apple's approach and decisions but never ever critic the logistics and approach behind Apple's adversaries.

I find these recent posts by kdarling quite informative. You don't usually get both sides of the story on these forums.

 

[dethmaShine]

Hello and welcome to Macrumors.

I've been on this forum for ages and I still love and hug all my Mac computers. I have seen Apple going downhill since Leopard on the computer side. I have seen them switching their business tactics. And I've ssen them playing the big bad bully in the mobile business - lesson learnt from the lost PC war.

Nevertheless I find myself very comfortable with the thought that I will happily boycott iOS devices in the future and I want bully Apple to get a bloody nose.

I personally side with Samsung just for the mere fact that the Galaxy SII runs circles around the iPhone and I sure as hell hope that Apple get a taste of their own medicine, when the iPhone5 (you know - the one that obviously is there but is not released) ist just a mere Galaxy SII ripoff (thinner, bigger screen, rectangle home button).

With whom will you side, when iPhone5 looks damn similar to the Galaxy SII (which from the circulating renders is a given)? With copycat Apple or will you pridefully announce that it was always Apple's plan to intoduce a wider and thinner phone with a rectangle home button???

Good lord, you got nothing from my post.

You can boycott Apple products all you want and show us how much of kid can you be.
I myself used an iPhone back in 2008-09; threw it twice on my wall after the 4.0 update to break into two pieces. Haven't bother an iPhone in the past 2 years. Happily got a DesireHD; it was crap - moved onto NexusS; crap UI and usability; moved on two Mozart7 and I'm happy since. I need not boycott Apple or HTC or any other 'company' for that matter.

Yes, Apple have lost the PC war. Soon they are going to lose the mobile war too. Soon they'll die down and turn to ashes. Sure, you can anticipate that given the current scenario.

As for the iPhone5, if its got no > 3.5inch screen, I'm out. I'll get a mango phone the next morning. On another note, the prototype/rumoured iPhone5 looks just like a Sams... iPhone4 from the very front. See what did I there?

I am amazed that you can see the (to be) iPhone5 as a SGSII copy but SGSII or Ace not being an iPhone3GS/4 copy. Amazed.

Just to summarise:
iPhone is a copy of itself. I get it mate.

 

[dethmaShine]

I for one don't like companies borrowing another company's design/work without doing some sort of patent sharing partnership (AKA pay the other company $$$ to use it's patents in your products) --- everyone wins.

I also don't like a company to be completely stingy and not share their patents even when the other is making efforts to pay royalties for it. I love Apple and its products, but it will hurt competition to completely ban Samsung products from customers even if Samsung is willing to make changes, or pay out royalties (like they did to Microsoft).

Copying (without paying) is bad, but not sharing (when the other is willing to pay fairly) is just as bad.

I understand the need for competitive advantages; thats why you let the powers that be to put a fair price on that advantage and have everyone who is wants to copy you and is willing to pay that price. This drives their cost up, while putting cash in your bank, and still help you maintain some advantage.

This also force the other company while in this partnership to come up with other innovative ways to offer better experience while trying to cut cost elsewhere in order to keep prices down to stay within the competition.

Sometimes its cheaper just to buy out a company who holds the design/prior art/patent; while other times its cheaper to just enter a patent sharing partnership. You can always find new innovative ways and designs to cut cost and increase value (to may paying the additional cost) more justified elsewhere.

Business Philanthropy by devinci99.

Those are very compassionate and generous words. To be honest, business and philanthropy don't go together. I wish they did. I remember some lines out of one of my very favourite songs. Here's it:

In our life there's if
In our beliefs there's lie
In our business there's sin
In our bodies there's die

-- This was my life, Megadeth.

Cheers.

---
Sorry, can some club the last two posts? Thanks.

 

[Laird Knox]

your point is so damn obvious yet people still downrate you. Goes to show how ****ing stupid people are in this world who cannot see common sense. No wonder apple has to go through this *****

If we are wrong how come Apple is winning court cases. Just goes to show the people who downrate these logical posts are really just trolls/un-evolved in the brain and born without common sense

He probably got down voted because he was responding to a scarcastic post like it was serious.

 

[swagi]

<snip>
As for the iPhone5, if its got no > 3.5inch screen, I'm out. I'll get a mango phone the next morning. On another note, the prototype/rumoured iPhone5 looks just like a Sams... iPhone4 from the very front. See what did I there?

I am amazed that you can see the (to be) iPhone5 as a SGSII copy but SGSII or Ace not being an iPhone3GS/4 copy. Amazed.

Just to summarise:
iPhone is a copy of itself. I get it mate.

Yes - good move you made there. Well - in my consideration I personally refrain from the Argument that Samsung "blatanly copied" the iPhone. There are only a few ways to make a touchscreen device and Sammy just went the way the customer voted.

They did an awful job with the F480 (sent that back to my carrier during return period), then came up with stuff like the Jet or the Wave. Those had the mixture of TouchWiz and buttons. Then they relased the Omnia - and one has to admit that the Omia was a nice piece of work.

Nobody accused the Omnia to be an iPhone rip-off yet everything was there. From the grid to Sammy's TouchWiz icons - just everything. Even the Omnia HD, which in some respects (DISPLAY) outshined the iPhone, never faced the stiff upfront legal rage that we are seeing here.

All of a sudden there was the switch to Android and the Galaxy. And then we went into this stupid outrage that we are seeing currently. And this is - IMHO - due to the fact that the Android foundation builds on the same 'ecosystem approach' that Apple uses with iOS. The funny part is - you shouldn't blame Samsung for the design choices, Android made. Otherwise at least be so honest and stop every Android handpiece on the market.

Oh - and glad you vote for Mango. I guess this will be my next choice also. Currently reading the rumors about what Nokia has up their sleeves - and man this sounds tasty.

I just got your post wrong as I personally found it a rather personal approach to kdarling. That's all. Sorry for misinterpreting you.

 

[(L)]

Weird

start by ditching your ipad/iphone. the memory and lcd screens on your beloved gadgets are *probably* made by Samsung.

This post has +18.

Not assembled only the componants are made by samsung

the design, the software, the feel, which materials are used, the innovation, ETC (need i go on) are all done by

This post has -8.

...Weird, isn't this?

Standards
Consumer perception knockoff < Legally knockoff.

Thus, from a marketing standpoint, Apple has already done the damage. That was probably their main goal in the first place. They want to keep as big a slice as possible of the pie they helped make. After a long legal battle, they might "lose" in court, but it's not like the courts will hand a portion of Apple's piece of the pie to Samsung.

...There are many reasons to be pro-Samsung, legally or otherwise, but in terms of product image, being pro-Samsung would be like cheering for Mr. Bolt after he bolted prematurely.

Anyway, I can't choose between 2 conclusions:

(1) Unbiased people (not Korean or hired by Samsung) are actually really into this patents battle thing even though it's probably not about who wins in court.

(2) The sources of the pro-Samsung/anti-Apple votes have some reason to be biased (e.g., Korean, Samsung-employees, etc).

Of course, I'm not saying all Koreans get overzealous, but China, Japan, and Korea all have their share of people who would do things like +1 anything Samsung/Sony/whatever chinese thing and -1 any 'enemy' thing. Is that what's in play here? Or not?

 

[*LTD*]

Apple has ZERO reason to do any kind of deal with Samsung. Apple is confident they can continue to stymie their efforts, and MEANWHILE . . . the iPad will continue to sell like gangbusters and Samsung will be dropped as a supplier.

When you're ahead in the game - technically and on the consumer side - you don't show empathy to competitors.