Samsung Seemingly Unconcerned Over Apple Lawsuit, Hints Dispute Could Continue to Escalate

[iDisk]

Of course. It makes no difference. The goal in any case is to lock down your successful design as much as you can to prevent others from even getting close to it. The goal is to corner the market so YOU become the sole supplier of a product in high demand. The goal is to (ideally) not have anyone competing against you at all.

Apple is simply trying to corner the market here and become the sole source for the particular designs that characterize the iphone. It's an *attempt* that is made available to them by law. It comes down to what the courts will decide. So far, they have case.

I agree, with that, and if their are clear violations then they should be addressed, but Apple needs to do what Apple does best and thats, make a better product that people Love... Apple WILL Never have the entire world buying their products, and solely going to them. They can dominate a market (like music downloads) but they did that by innovating, not by legal mumbo jumbo.... They need to just innovate and let the product continue to speak for itself

 

[scyap]

While the Galaxy S (and a lot of other smartphones) wouldn't have been this way if it wasn't of the iPhone, I think Apple is going a bit far. Of course Samsung copied a lot of design/UI elements from Apple. But people know that. It's not like they pretended or people had the misconception that Samsung did it first.

I'm proud to be an iPhone owner because Apple did revolutionize the smartphone game. Even if Android phones were unanimously better, I'd still be proud to support the company that started it all.

The iPhone was a better phone overall than what we were used to at the time it came out. That's a fact. Credit to Apple for that. But they can't prevent people from using UI elements that are just plain effective simply because they thought it first.

It's like if Ford patented 4-wheeled motorized cars just because they did it first. They deserve the credit, but other brands coming after weren't going to start making 3-wheeled and 6-wheeled cars if they were not as effective just so they can differentiate themselves. 4-wheeled motorized cars worked well for the past century and will continue to be the most effective way of making a car for a while no matter how much companies will try to bring new ideas to the industry. Sometimes you can't go faster than science and technological progress.

By being strongly inspired by Apple with their Galaxy line, Samsung admitted they weren't able to bring something new to the table that was better than the iPhone's UI. So what? The only other thing they could have done was to make a phone with a UI that's admittedly worse than the iPhone's while being original. They made the choice to have more effective phones despite looking like copycats, lowering the brand's prestige/status. That's fine for me. In the end all consumers end up having better phones, and Samsung has a lower brand status than Apple, like it deserves to. That seems totally fair to me.

very well said

 

[Iconoclysm]

Yes, I imagine all those iPhones and Pads working splendidly without their silicon chips.

Right, Samsung is the only company out there that's capable of manufacturing what Apple designs...chips included. Also, you might want to pay attention to the news sometime - Apple is most likely moving their chip manufacturing to another company.

 

[skier777]

It doesn't matter how simple the design is, it's still intellectual property and protected by patents.

Where do you draw the line? Should the company that first came up with the flip phone have the sole rights to the production of any phone with a hinge. Or the company that first created a touchscreen phone be the only one allowed to sell them.

If judges had the same idea as you, there would be severely limited competition for pretty much every product.

 

[skier777]

@the "Clearly totally different" comment, there a a slew of similarities.

He was being sarcastic.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

Where do you draw the line? Should the company that first came up with the flip phone have the sole rights to the production of any phone with a hinge. Or the company that first created a touchscreen phone be the only one allowed to sell them.

If judges had the same idea as you, there would be severely limited competition for pretty much every product.

Samsung patents a cool hinged phone

Anyway this is nothing compared to pharmaceutical patents. Prozac patent runs out so a patent for a "new use" is registered just in time...

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Samsung is under contract with Apple. At this point there is legally no bridge that can be burned.

As long as consumers keep going crazy for Apple gear and demand is through the roof (been this way for years now), there will be no shortage of suppliers wanting in on the action.

You have no idea how easy a company can cause worlds of problems while be "under contract" Shipments can be delayed. If you need an increased order well that might not happen. There are worlds of things Samsung can do to cause Apple problems in terms of supply and nothing Apple could do about it.

Apple should be looking for new vendors however and the minute the contract is up ensure everything Samsung is removed from their products.

Good luck with that. Samsung is one of the largest manufactures of flash chips and LCD. Flash memory there is a shortage of them in the world. Apple would be hard press to fill the void that Samsung would leave for them in a supplier. Samsung on the other hand it would be a cake walk for them to replace the 5% Apple buys and if anything they could sell them for MORE profit because demand exceeds supply and it is only getting worse

@the "Clearly totally different" comment, there a a slew of similarities. Samsung first marketed the "Instinct" (which was the biggest piece of crap I ever owned) fully pitching its similiraties and how it was better than iPhone (it wasn't.) THeir own advertising could bite them. Also, if anyone could just slightly change an angle or an edge on something and call it their own, there would be no design innovation. (Hello Windows PC's!) It's not about cloning. You don't seem to understand what a knock off is. I'm not stating this is a knock off, let the courts do that, but I can see the argument.

What's funny though is you don't see Payless shoes being sued for all it's designer knock offs (that's their business). It's hard to claim ownership of a grid view, but to the average joe that walked into a wirless store that played with someone's iphone once, it would seem almost like a newer version. Moto and HTC both have grids, but their design shouts who made the phone. Samsung's design doesn't shout "Samsung." Touch Wiz is very IOS. Not just in look, but how it's used. These suits aren't about "exact" copies but "likeness" and CLEARLY there is a likeness. The question is how much does Apple own in legal rights to that look, or is Samsung free to use that "likeness" in additional to under the hood technologies. Samsung even has a "doc like" bottom row.

HTC
Image

MotoBlur Interface
Image

Palm Web OS
Image

Well anyone could argue similarities in all of these, none of them SCREAM iPhone like the Samsung interface does. Compare all 4 and now tell me Samsung is "Clearly Totally Different". And yes, the hardware is similar in ways too. So are 100's of other handsets Apple isn't suing over to be fair.

Umm you are showing pictures of a different point. All those pictures are of the Home screen.
The one everyone is showing of Samgsung is of the App Drawer being open. I can promise you if you open the Apple draw of HTC and Motola phone it would look a LOT like Apples iPhone. A 4x4 grid of icons. OMG it is a copy......
Just figured I point out the flaw everyone is saying samsung is coping when really that is the App draw being open.

 

[Iconoclysm]

Where do you draw the line? Should the company that first came up with the flip phone have the sole rights to the production of any phone with a hinge. Or the company that first created a touchscreen phone be the only one allowed to sell them.

If judges had the same idea as you, there would be severely limited competition for pretty much every product.

There's a difference between a couple similarities and so many that you are infringing on a patent.

This suit is about look and feel, Samsung is quite blatant at ripping the iPhone there. And no, there aren't other phones on the market doing this - yet they've all got grids of icons, candybar design, and home buttons. If you can't tell the difference, you're out of your mind.

 

[Iconoclysm]

You have no idea how easy a company can cause worlds of problems while be "under contract" Shipments can be delayed. If you need an increased order well that might not happen. There are worlds of things Samsung can do to cause Apple problems in terms of supply and nothing Apple could do about it.




Good luck with that. Samsung is one of the largest manufactures of flash chips and LCD. Flash memory there is a shortage of them in the world. Apple would be hard press to fill the void that Samsung would leave for them in a supplier. Samsung on the other hand it would be a cake walk for them to replace the 5% Apple buys and if anything they could sell them for MORE profit because demand exceeds supply and it is only getting worse


Umm you are showing pictures of a different point. All those pictures are of the Home screen.
The one everyone is showing of Samgsung is of the App Drawer being open. I can promise you if you open the Apple draw of HTC and Motola phone it would look a LOT like Apples iPhone. A 4x4 grid of icons. OMG it is a copy......
Just figured I point out the flaw everyone is saying samsung is coping when really that is the App draw being open.

What difference does that make? The home screen isn't exactly a UI.

 

[skier777]

One last thing before I leave this discussion for good.

Check this out: http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/W...-Sim-card-java-phone-3PCS/135549-2171444.html

I found it advertised on the sidebar of Macrumors.com

People have gotten pretty upset with samsung, yet nobody cares about this...

Why, its basically the same, because the consumer is well aware that they are not getting apple quality when they make the purchase. I apple would have n case suing them because the damages are minimal, these phones are not actually taking anything away from the sales of the iphone, its cheap garbage that looks like the iphone that people buy instead of cheap garbage that doesn't.

 

[bushido]

a friend just got the galaxy s 2 today and omg its so fast, it makes my iphone 4 seem like a 3G.

anyway, it doesnt look like an iPhone at all. yea it has a home button, but my 5 year HTC had a home button

 

[Rodimus Prime]

What difference does that make? The home screen isn't exactly a UI.

you argument was using pictures and you are using them from different points in the OS.

For HTC and Motolura you are taking them from the Home screen were the widgets are. Guess what take a look at Touchwiz's home screen and it will look a lot closer to Sense and Motoblur than iOS.

Motoblur in terms of home screen and App draw is closes to stock Android.
What I was pointing out is the argument to say Touchwiz is coping iOS is taking from the App draw. If you open up Motoblur and Sense App draw it would look a lot like iOS as well. a 4x4 grid of icons.

 

[Azathoth]

hardly the same phone in the photos...Apple shot is angled and tilted on the side...Samsung is shot angled and tilted on the OTHER side.
Samsung has 4 icons across and 4 down, Apple has 4 down and four across. Apple has a 4-icon block on the bottom, Samsung has a block with 4 icons on the bottom.
Samsung had the screen dots on the top, Apple has them on the bottom. Samsung has its name on the front Apple does not.

Clearly totally different.

Based on the screen size 4 icon roqs make sense. A grid is the only logical choice (my Nokia had the option of a 'V' and a horseshoe arrangement for icons - those never became popular - I wonder why )

Sorry, Apple has patented square and rectangular grid arrangements. And your icons have to be <5mm wide, else it runs afoul of Apple licensing. Ridiculous that these things could be regarded as 'IP'.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

a friend just got the galaxy s 2 today and omg its so fast, it makes my iphone 4 seem like a 3G.

anyway, it doesnt look like an iPhone at all

That's a nice advertisement for the galaxy s 2 you got there.

Anyway I wouldn't bother with the malware infested android OS. Another problem is that there are only two apps for purchase that are actually making money. There are currently many free apps but the developers are getting fed up with the lack of revenue. Given that the developers already have to deal with fragmentation, many of the best will turn to other platforms that are profitable. The android experience will start to suffer.

 

[bushido]

That's a nice advertisement for the galaxy s 2 you got there.

Anyway I wouldn't bother with the malware infested android OS. Another problem is that there are only two apps for purchase that are actually making money. There are currently many free apps but the developers are getting fed up with the lack of revenue. Given that the developers already have to deal with fragmentation, many of the best will turn to other platforms that are profitable. The android experience will start to suffer.

ok, then let me rephrase it, its amazingly fast BUT i still hate those samsung screens, they have some weird yellowish greenish tint to it.

and to get back to the topic, didnt apple originally steal the iPod idea

 

[ABernardoJr]

Samsung buys every single god damn products apple makes. What do they do? They tear them apart and have their engineers to make a better product.

Samsung should be ashamed of themselves. They copied.

It's been said before and I'll say it again... When have they made a "better product?"

and to get back to the topic, didnt apple originally steal the iPod idea

The lawsuit isn't even about copying the idea of a phone, so what does the "iPod idea" have to do with any of this? Sorry to say but maybe you should just stick to advertising the Galaxy S2 if your attempts to stay on topic aren't even relevant.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

That's a nice advertisement for the galaxy s 2 you got there.

Anyway I wouldn't bother with the malware infested android OS. Another problem is that there are only two apps for purchase that are actually making money. There are currently many free apps but the developers are getting fed up with the lack of revenue. Given that the developers already have to deal with fragmentation, many of the best will turn to other platforms that are profitable. The android experience will start to suffer.

you might want to check your facts.
Revo (makers of Angery birds) already stated that they make more money off Android than iOS. Also there are some really good paid Apps that I know do really well on Android and people are very willing to pay for.
Also the fragmentation is not as large of an issue as you all try to make it out to be. Design the stuff to use the hooks in the OS and let the OS handle everything.

Also the malware as you put it you are doing nothing but fear mongering and buying the media hype hook line and sinker.

 

[devilstrider]

Steve Jobs: Good artists copy great artists steal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

 

[Piggie]

And we must remember, all of this is very bad for the consumer.

Even Apple loyalists should realise the very VERY last thing that we as consumers should want to happen is for people like Apple to be the only ones able to produce X, Y or Z

All that will happen then is they will sit on it and not feel so under pressure.

With other companies producing products that threaten their profits, it makes any company try as hard as they can year after year to offer the very best they can otherwise they will get overtaken.

I'm sure every Apple fan wants Apple to do this. Be pushed to do the very best it can.

If Apple could sit on a pile of lawsuits so that no-one else could make anything else even remotely like an iPhone in any way (like a Samsung, an HTC etc etc) and you think in that world Apple would try as hard, then I'm afraid you are sadly mistaken.

It's strong competition that drives the industry forward, and no matter what brand you prefer to own, it's good for every single consumer for specs and prices.

 

[paul4339]

Such blatant copying of a product ... But I can't imagine Samsung getting away with this.
...

I agree, 'blatant' is key.

Copying is a valid business model, it reduces business risk when you copy a proven design (just look at the fashion industry and the car industry). However, when you copy TOO much, it increases the risk that someone (like Apple) will litagate.

Ideas are built on other ideas, almost everything is evolutionary. And companies (including Apple) take ideas, design features from each other and build on existing design trends. (Apple/RIM/Palm all took ideas from each other, but their products look different)

"Blatant" is the key word. If they would have copied of 'few features' then I'd say it's basically sour grapes on apples part. But when it's more than a few features (right down to the packaging), trade dress, etc, then it's not just 'improving' on the competition, it's just blatant copying.

Whether they will get away with it, is something different.
When I look at other industries, it seems that often they do get away with it.

 

[bushido]

The lawsuit isn't even about copying the idea of a phone, so what does the "iPod idea" have to do with any of this? Sorry to say but maybe you should just stick to advertising the Galaxy S2 if your attempts to stay on topic aren't even relevant.

u could have bothered reading my whole reply at least

 

[ABernardoJr]

I did read the reply, I just quoted the part I was referring to

 

[ThunderSkunk]

And we must remember, all of this is very bad for the consumer... I'm sure every Apple fan wants Apple to do this. Be pushed to do the very best it can..

And I'm sure that whole post was satire, or that's the most myopic, self-serving, unethical viewpoint on IP I've ever read.

 

[peppermonkey]

snip...

Even if Android phones were unanimously better, I'd still be proud to support the company that started it all.

snip...

But they can't prevent people from using UI elements that are just plain effective simply because they thought it first.

snip...

First, I generally have no problems with what you said

But please, would people realize for once that Apple was 'Not' the first company to ever come up with the UI consisting of grid rows of icons and/or with one default bottom row of icons that is 'touchable'. And they certainly weren't the first company to 'create' a smart phone.

Frankly they seemed to have copied heavily the basic UI elements of Palm OS, or even RIM to some extent.
Small screen with a grid of icons? Check.
Default bottom grid of icons at the bottom? Check (albeit, from third party launchers for again, Palm devices)
etc. etc.

Now I'm not saying Palm was the first to come out with such ideas as I'm sure some other obscure company has come up with similar ideas.
There really aren't any new ideas. Most everything has been done before. It's only a degree of how successful a company was with said idea.

Apple just simply did it right. They weren't the first out of the block but they were the first out of the block to get all the pieces together in a environment that actually works. Again, Apple didn't invent the concept. They just were better at engineering a system that works with the marketing, support, resources and leadership to make it happen.

 

[ten-oak-druid]

you might want to check your facts.
Revo (makers of Angery birds) already stated that they make more money off Android than iOS. Also there are some really good paid Apps that I know do really well on Android and people are very willing to pay for.
Also the fragmentation is not as large of an issue as you all try to make it out to be. Design the stuff to use the hooks in the OS and let the OS handle everything.

Also the malware as you put it you are doing nothing but fear mongering and buying the media hype hook line and sinker.

Most paid apps in Android Market get under 100 downloads

From the article:

...To back up those claims, stats show that nearly 80% of paid Android applications can’t reach 100 downloads.

To worsen things further, there were only five games on the Market that have passed the 250,000 download threshold, while in the last two months alone, the App Store has registered ten games with over 250,000 downloads in the States alone.

“It is more challenging for developers in the Google Android Market than in the Apple App Store to monetize using a one-off fee monetization model. We found that only two paid applications have been downloaded more than half a million times in the Google Android Market worldwide to date, while six paid applications in the Apple App Store for iPhone generate the same number of downloads within a two month timeframe in the United States alone,” Distimo summarizes.

So you may want to check your facts.

The fragmentation alone isn't an issue. But if you can't make money off it then why bother with all the fragmentation?

I think another OS will replace Android in a few years to compete with iOS or Google will change the android experience to make it more profitable for Android developers.