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johnnnw

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 7, 2013
1,214
21
I noticed my SSD was getting really slow and checked the System Information and noticed TRIM status is not even listed anymore?

I also for the first time noticed my SSD was converted to APFS, looked this up and its because of High Sierra. (I was unaware of this until now).

So is TRIM on third party SSD's not supported again? I remember on previous OS versions you need to use a third part tool, and then Apple started supporting it.

Just curious if someone can clarify what's going on here? Do I have TRIM support on my Samsung SSD on 10.13.3?
 

Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
20,649
4,049
New Zealand
Do you need to redo "sudo trimforce enable" to make it work?

I'm on an Apple SSD now so I haven't tried it myself in 10.13, but that'll presumably sort it out.
 

johnnnw

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 7, 2013
1,214
21
It is connected via SATA on my 2012, it's my main drive.
[doublepost=1517683329][/doublepost]
Yep. Need a TB drive to support TRIM.

Do you need to redo "sudo trimforce enable" to make it work?

I'm on an Apple SSD now so I haven't tried it myself in 10.13, but that'll presumably sort it out.

I tried this and still no mention of TRIM in the System Information > Storage section.

This used to work on previous versions so I'm not sure what is going on.
[doublepost=1517683702][/doublepost]Oh, I'm a massive moron. TRIM status is under the "SATA/SATA Express" section of System Information, not "Storage".

I will be losing sleep over this tonight
 

organicCPU

macrumors 6502a
Aug 8, 2016
827
287
Another way to determine trim status in Terminal:
Code:
system_profiler SPSerialATADataType | grep 'TRIM'
On a Samsung Evo 850 SSD I enabled TRIM while macOS Sierra / HFS+ was installed. After upgrading to macOS High Sierra and conversion to APFS TRIM was still enabled.
AFAIK, for best performance of a SSD there should be 25% of free space available. Sometimes read/write speed can drop temporarily while performing indexing, periodic scripts or other I/O intensive tasks. Did you use some benchmark utility like Blackmagic Disk Speed Test before and after APFS conversion?
 
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johnnnw

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 7, 2013
1,214
21
Another way to determine trim status in Terminal:
Code:
system_profiler SPSerialATADataType | grep 'TRIM'
On a Samsung Evo 850 SSD I enabled TRIM while macOS Sierra / HFS+ was installed. After upgrading to macOS High Sierra and conversion to APFS TRIM was still enabled.
AFAIK, for best performance of a SSD there should be 25% of free space available. Sometimes read/write speed can drop temporarily while performing indexing, periodic scripts or other I/O intensive tasks. Did you use some benchmark utility like Blackmagic Disk Speed Test before and after APFS conversion?

I discovered my main issue, it was 100% user error, I was looking for trim status in the wrong spot (post above)

My SSD is still acting slow though. I used to see 400+ writes and 500+ reads on blackmagic but now seeing under 200 writes and fairly normal reads.
 

organicCPU

macrumors 6502a
Aug 8, 2016
827
287
Maybe you should try:
Code:
sudo fs_usage -w
Press Ctrl + C to stop trace.
dtrace and iosnoop commands could also give some insights, but they refuse to work with enabled SIP.
 

CoastalOR

macrumors 68040
Jan 19, 2015
3,022
1,147
Oregon, USA
He's said - twice now - that he's solved it. He probably doesn't need more suggestions :)
He solved the no TRIM, but not the:
I noticed my SSD was getting really slow and checked the System Information and noticed TRIM status is not even listed anymore?
and
My SSD is still acting slow though. I used to see 400+ writes and 500+ reads on blackmagic but now seeing under 200 writes and fairly normal reads.
Learning how to check the status of TRIM was just one part of the OPs request.
 
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flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,235
2,964
This, IMHO, is a very silly thread. Why do folks try to answer a question when the OP doesn't provide enough information so that a good factual answer may be given? The above answers are like darts being thrown at a spinning wheel with balloons on it! This type of question with trace information is becoming quite common. The first post trying to respond to such a post, should be asking for more information rather than just spitting in the wind trying to GUESS the correct answer.

Lou
 

johnnnw

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Feb 7, 2013
1,214
21
This, IMHO, is a very silly thread. Why do folks try to answer a question when the OP doesn't provide enough information so that a good factual answer may be given? The above answers are like darts being thrown at a spinning wheel with balloons on it! This type of question with trace information is becoming quite common. The first post trying to respond to such a post, should be asking for more information rather than just spitting in the wind trying to GUESS the correct answer.

Lou

If you say so. I said what version of OSX I was on, the format of my drive, the brand of the drive, and my exact issue.

It got slightly confusing because I was being an idiot and looking for TRIM in the wrong place. Also the fact I am having two issues makes it a little more confusing.

What more would you like to know to help this issue? I honestly don't know.
[doublepost=1517770679][/doublepost]
Which model 2012 Mac do you have? If it's a MacBook Pro, then it could be a problem with the internal SATA ribbon cable.

Very possible. I am on my 5th SATA cable on this device. Typically it just dies one day without warning, maybe this time is different.
 
Last edited:

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,235
2,964
^^^^

I noticed my SSD was getting really slow and checked the System Information and noticed TRIM status is not even listed anymore?

I also for the first time noticed my SSD was converted to APFS, looked this up and its because of High Sierra. (I was unaware of this until now).

So is TRIM on third party SSD's not supported again? I remember on previous OS versions you need to use a third part tool, and then Apple started supporting it.

Just curious if someone can clarify what's going on here? Do I have TRIM support on my Samsung SSD on 10.13.3?

Don't want to start a war here, but you did not mention

1. You Mac Model
2. Your SSD Model
3. You SSD connection type
4. How you determined you did not have TRIM support

Lou
 

expede

macrumors regular
Jan 15, 2018
236
67
Sweden
Hi!

Got myself doing the "sudo trimforce enable" yesterday and it stable out my hole issue with Sierra High. What I also learn from a user at apple community is that you after this "sudo" thing should do a reboot in safe-mode (hold shift). This is what "Grant Bennet-Alder" wrote;

TRIM is enabled individually as it is a separate setting in each MacOS Install on each drive you are running.
If it runs better in Windows (which uses built-in TRIM) and better from a Hard drive than an SSD, you may have to methodically do this process for each boot SSD:

sudo trimforce enable

agree to the terms and the restart. Restart in Safe Mode to massively TRIM the unused blocks
then you can compare performance.
Now for every new file deleted, the blocks will be freed. But your drive could be slightly faster (you will likely not notice much difference) if you did a major TRIM-ing of all the old deleted data blocks.
To do this, restart in safe mode (hold shift at startup) and the Boot drive will be TRIM-ed at the end of its Disk-Check. The setting of trimforce is honored by Safe Mode.

So this is what I did and- wow, did my SH got stable and no "beachball", sudden reboots. Just sharing!

Best regards

/Per
 

simonsi

Contributor
Jan 3, 2014
4,851
735
Auckland
This, IMHO, is a very silly thread. Why do folks try to answer a question when the OP doesn't provide enough information so that a good factual answer may be given? The above answers are like darts being thrown at a spinning wheel with balloons on it! This type of question with trace information is becoming quite common. The first post trying to respond to such a post, should be asking for more information rather than just spitting in the wind trying to GUESS the correct answer.

Lou

Sorry Lou but you have clearly never worked in Customer Support. People asking questions cannot possibly know what they don't know so can be reasonably expected to <not> give all the requested information on the first post.

If you have any beef it seems it is with the 1st response to the OP, not with the OP - but remember this isn't a staffed, professional tech support forum either so people tend to chime in with what they can to <try and help>.
[doublepost=1517781477][/doublepost]
Very possible. I am on my 5th SATA cable on this device. Typically it just dies one day without warning, maybe this time is different.

Thats a bit worrying (assuming you are using a new cable each time), I have replaced 1 cable in 6.5yrs on my MBP - it might be worth checking you don't have something on the inside of the case abrading the cable???

I'm afraid it can be the nature of electronics to just die sometimes but I did see one of the Smart errors on my drive incrementing but only after it started giving real-world symptoms of dropping into read-only mode (due to write errors on the interface). After replacing the cabe it was instantly all good - and no visible issue with the cable in my case.
 

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,235
2,964
Sorry Lou but you have clearly never worked in Customer Support. People asking questions cannot possibly know what they don't know so can be reasonably expected to <not> give all the requested information on the first post.

If you have any beef it seems it is with the 1st response to the OP, not with the OP - but remember this isn't a staffed, professional tech support forum either so people tend to chime in with what they can to <try and help>.

You are right, I never have. And you are also right, that my beef is not with the OP but with the good folks trying to answer a question without the proper information. If you read my post, you'll see that I made that clear. Responders should not try to answer questions until they have all the information needed to make an educated guess. IOW, rather than shooting from the hip without the facts, ask the OP the questions necessary to answer and solve the problem.

Lou
 

simonsi

Contributor
Jan 3, 2014
4,851
735
Auckland
You are right, I never have. And you are also right, that my beef is not with the OP but with the good folks trying to answer a question without the proper information. If you read my post, you'll see that I made that clear. Responders should not try to answer questions until they have all the information needed to make an educated guess. IOW, rather than shooting from the hip without the facts, ask the OP the questions necessary to answer and solve the problem.

Lou

Right but if we restrict answering to those only with all the information and trouble-shooting information <actually> needed (as opposed to those with partial information but they <think> it is all that is needed), the internet becomes a dry and unhelpful place.

In other words, you will need to restrict answers to only experts. Good luck with that...
 
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organicCPU

macrumors 6502a
Aug 8, 2016
827
287
@flowrider you're absolutely right that blind flight support could cause the OP more trouble than he had before and it can never be as effective as a well educated guess with all necessary info. I'm glad that you asked for the details.

But hey, where's the fun?

In another thread the OP is mentioning a 2012 MBP with a Samsung EVO 840.

TL;DR - However, just considering this post:

The OP is talking about a 2012 Mac with a SATA cable. MacBook is out, cause not produced in 2012. MacBook Air and rMBP 2012 10,1 or 10,2 are out as they do have a flash drive with no SATA cable. Hence, it's a MacBook Pro 9,1 or 9,2 non-retina, a Mac Pro 5,1 (desktop or server) or a Mac mini 6,1 (desktop) or 6,2 (server). Correct me, if I'm wrong! Concerning the slow drive speed does the exact model really matter? Maybe, if you bring in the cache that is different though these models. But in fact it was faster before the APFS conversion and more slowly afterwards. Very unlikely that the cache suddenly changed or got broken during upgrade.

The SSD connection type must be 6.0 Gbps Serial ATA (SATA) or in case of a Mac Pro a 3.0 Gbps Serial ATA (SATA) controller, no matter if attached to an optical drive connector or a hard drive interface. Again, IMHO it doesn't matter so much as there was a speed degradation after file system conversion. Very strange that it's the 5th cable, but who knows what's going wrong there?

If I don't misread, the OP has TRIM support enabled, but just didn't look at the right place. That problem is solved.

The one really important question is, what the exact SSD model is, as there might be some known issues with a specific model. E.g. the EVO 840 has reported speed degradation over time. The linked article is just referring to read speed, not write speed. Then the next question arises, what firmware is on the drive and is there a better one available?

Updating a disk drive with newer firmware is fine, but IMO it's something one should think about twice. New firmware, especially for Samsung SSDs, very often is introducing new bugs that haven't been there before. This happened to me with an EVO 850. Samsung unfortunately has no dedicated firmware update tool for Mac and it's a bit of pain to deal with their .iso installers or attaching the SSD to a Windows machine that can't read it without reformatting. Nevertheless, the model and installed firmware version could help to narrow down the problem and give a more educated advice. I don't recommend upgrading to the latest firmware, except it's known to address the write speed degradation of that certain model in question.

Until the OP is telling us the missing facts, IMHO there is nothing wrong with a little blind guessing. I don't see any advice here that will potentially harm the OP's Mac or drive, do you? To defend myself, e.g. in my last post, I tried to exclude the possibility that there are too many unconsidered apps writing to the drive.

As it's not a professional helpline here, we should all be interested in learning by helping and asking. I hope that the OP returns with some answers and won't be aggrieved by some comments here, like I felt a bit so that I had to ask myself if I should really write or finally post another comment. I hope you don't mind.
 

ashleykaryl

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2011
471
212
UK
I believe I had to re-enable TRIM after upgrading to High Sierra. I have a Samsung SSD installed via PCIE on the Mac Pro.
 

flowrider

macrumors 604
Nov 23, 2012
7,235
2,964
^^^^I know that I did not. TRIM was still enabled after my update to HS,

Lou
 
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