Samsung Stepping Up Attacks on 'Free Riding' Apple in Patent Dispute

[zorinlynx]

NO sympathy for Apple here.

Apple threw the first punch.

They could have continued working together, but nooooo...

Now both companies are going to lose a ton of money, and all for stupid reasons. Keep in mind they were both doing AMAZINGLY well before, so it's not like either of them was desperate and needed to do this. But now Samsung has to defend themselves...

 

[Iconoclysm]

KHTML has GPL license, so Apple had no other option than to release their code for Webkit

Statements like this destroy your credibility, and you should consider doing research before making them.

Parts of Webkit are BSD-licensed, and KHTML is LGPL, both licenses are permissive free. Apple had the option to not release the code, which is why it was such a big deal back in 2005. Also, Apple had the option to not use anything open source to begin with.

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Apple may be right about some of those Samsung patents, but if they have not yet been classified for FRAND licensing, then Apple has to prove that in court. With regards to Samsung, Apple fired the first shot. Now we just got wait for the dust to settle to see who wins. I think the next steps look like one of the following:

1) Apple wins a decision that the Samsung patents should be subject to FRAND licensing terms and ends up paying Samsung royalties while still refusing to license their own patents to Samsung (Apple does not like to license).

2) Apple loses a decision that the Samsung patents should be subject to FRAND, and we immediately see a major cross-licensing deal between Apple and Samsung (similar to what Apple and Microsoft have between them).

There is a group of sales account managers at Samsung who are very very upset about the Galaxy line because Apple shifting suppliers is eating directly into their commissions. If Samsung really has alternative customers then they should just be expanding the supply and making even more money on that end.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Samsung has to prove why Apple has to pay them money?

 

[paul4339]

Apple has offered compensation. It's obvious from the article that Apple is already trying to pay royalties to Samsung on RAND terms, but Samsung refuses to accept, wanting to charge Apple a premium price....

...Looks too similar to the Nokia situation that has been resolved; you are not confusing that?...

According to the Register:

"For as long as Apple does not drop mobile telecommunications functions, it would be impossible for it to sell its i-branded products without using our patents..." said a Samsung Executive.

Which apparently would make it F/RAND.... BUT it's not so simple...

According FOSS patents:

"Apple says Samsung sued before making a FRAND licensing offer. By contrast, there was no dispute between Apple and Nokia over the fact that Nokia made an offer (in fact, two alternative offers, though Apple didn't accept any of them)."

That is, no offer has been made.

And equally as important:

".. Apple doesn't claim that all 12 patents asserted by Samsung in that particular lawsuit are subject to FRAND commitments. The exact number is not specified, but there are indications in the text that Apple means seven of the twelve asserted patents (more or less)..."

which means it's not just FRAND, it's a mix. Which means the non-FRAND ones are negotiable... I'm cherry picking words, read FOSS yourselves,,, to me, both parties seems to have legitimate grievances.


.

 

[KnightWRX]

Samsung says Apple can't build a cell phone without infringing on those patents. That makes them pretty obvious RAND material.

Did you look at the patents ? Samsung's claim could very well be for non-essential patents, but patents that nonetheless would result in Apple putting out quite a sub-par handset (Samsung holds amongst other things patents on power management, imagine an iPhone with 1 hour battery life if you will... Sure it works, but Apple can't really build such a thing and hope it will sell).

Given they should be RAND, Apple needs to pay exactly what any other licensee is paying (the ND = "non-discriminatory" part of RAND).

Exactly what any other licensee is paying has nothing to do with F/RAND. Remember, not all patents deals are the same. Some may come with cross-licensing agreements for other patents, other with part contracts, etc... No 2 contract is alike and thus it's why it's FAIR and not EQUAL that is used for F/RAND

These terms still need to be negotiated and not everyone probably agrees on what constitutes FAIR.

 

[Iconoclysm]

Why would I have buyer's remorse? I have the best phone currently on the market until the Nexus Prime/Galaxy 3 or HTCs new phone come out It is also running the best mobile OS.

In your (as yet to be determined qualified) opinion...

 

[KnightWRX]

Parts of Webkit are BSD-licensed, and KHTML is LGPL, both licenses are permissive free. Apple had the option to not release the code, which is why it was such a big deal back in 2005. Also, Apple had the option to not use anything open source to begin with.

LGPL requires that source code be distributed with the binaries. Same as the GPL. The only thing the LGPL permits that the GPL does not is linking said code dynamically/statically to other non-GPL code.

Because of the LGPL licensed attached to KHTML, Apple has to release the source if they distribute binaries.

Webkit however is not a singular entity, it is a group of different projects of which 1 is based on KHTML.

 

[a.gomez]

nice, good to see a company with as much money as Samsung fighting back

 

[Oletros]

Statements like this destroy your credibility, and you should consider doing research before making them.

Parts of Webkit are BSD-licensed, and KHTML is LGPL, both licenses are permissive free. Apple had the option to not release the code

No, LGPL license doesn't admit closing the sources. But hey, the one destroying credibility is me

 

[D4F]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/20/business/worldbusiness/20samsung.html

Man... seriously... you scare me.

 

[Bobby Corwen]

Lol what if Apple has like a "War Room" where they discuss these tactics and competitors.

 

[paul4339]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/20/business/worldbusiness/20samsung.html

New Bribery Allegation Roils Samsung
...

The former aide, Lee Yong-chul, who also served as a presidential monitor against corruption, said that the money — 5 million won ($5,445) — was delivered to him in January 2004 as a holiday gift from a Samsung Electronics executive, but that he immediately returned it.
....

lol $5000 bribe???
what kind of bribe is that? If you are gonna bribe at least do it right.
Just goes to show you that they are not only corrupt but CHEAP as well !!

.

 

[thedoctor]

LOL.... love that scene... "How about a game of chess?"!

"How about a nice game of chess?" - Joshua aka WOPR

 

[DanteMann]

Funny how Samsung remained "passive" until Apple found other companies to supply parts for their gadgets.

What's so funny about it? It's called respect. They were respecting their relationship, but when said relationship is not being respected by the other party, then guess what....fck the relationship. That's what's happening here. And thank goodness Sammy finally decided to take the gloves off. Samsung are the true innovators. Apple only packages what Sammy supplies them. So let's see, Samsung a world leader in the most advance memory technology, or Apple that sues because of a rectangle shape and round corners. Yeah, I'll take Sammy for the win. Once a company starts believing their own hype they're on their way to being done via RIM style. This is where Apple is right now.
I will always be amazed at how Apple was able to create so many blind followers who will defend an average product as a premium one. All because one guy told you it was magical.

 

[vrDrew]

Samsung's claim could very well be for non-essential patents, but patents that nonetheless would result in Apple putting out quite a sub-par handset (Samsung holds amongst other things patents on power management, imagine an iPhone with 1 hour battery life if you will... Sure it works, but Apple can't really build such a thing and hope it will sell)..

This is what is called "assuming facts not in evidence." Its also called "just making **** up."

Samsung hasn't actually filed anything (in Korea) - all they are doing is making vague sounding threats. And while Samsung may indeed hold patents on "power management" - its a billion miles from that particular fact, and suggesting (let alone proving) that Apple somehow infringed on them. Its even more absurd still to suggest that Apple's (well known) battery life superiority has anything to do with Samsung's crappy patent. (It actually has more to do with keeping junk like Flash off the device.)

Lastly, I'd really suggest that people who are thinking that Samsung is some sort of noble Rebel, fighting the good fight against the Evil Empire of Apple, take a look at Samsung's corporate history. Bribery, tax evasion, rampant corruption, price fixing (on everything from NAND chips to LCD panels), insider trading, and industrial spying make for a pretty disturbing story.

 

[Marcush1286]

GO Sammy!!!!!!!!! Show Apple what its like to be in the hot seat!

 

[MH01]

EVERYONE was warned. Apple warned everyone, no question. First by Jobs - loud and clear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JZBLjxPBUU

And then later, numerous times, it was also made clear by Tim Cook, well before any tablet competitors arrived on the scene, and before the bulk of the iPhone competitors arrived on the scene.

https://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/21/apple-reports-1-61-billion-profit-for-q1-2009/

. . . we will not stand for companies infringing on our IP.

http://liveblog.macobserver.com/

Mr. Cook also said that Apple would continue to defend its IP.

Cook or Jobs mention that Apple is still in the innovation business? Going through the above it seems Apple has moved into the Legal Business. I prefer the old Apple, new Apple is a spoilt prat...stomping thier feet and throwing tantrums.

 

[KnightWRX]

This is what is called "assuming facts not in evidence." Its also called "just making **** up."

Same as the people assuming the patents are essential to implementing standards that are ruled by a standard body requiring F/RAND licensing. I'm just offering an opposite view to those people so they realise that it might not be what they think it is.

We'll know for sure when the suits are filed properly and we get a list of the patents in question. Which is why any commentary about who is right or wrong at this point is plainly useless.

But you had to single out my post above all the other posters "assuming facts not in evidence", "just making **** up." right ? .

 

[SockRolid]

Maybe Samsung should hire Leo Apotheker

[...] FRAND conditions are applied by standards-setting organizations in certain situations to prevent companies from engaging in anti-competitive behavior by refusing to license patents that are crucial to a given industry. [...]

Samsung has already shown that they don't understand trademark and trade dress law. Now they've proven that they don't understand basic technology patent law.

Or maybe Samsung understands the laws but just doesn't care. Maybe they'll open counterfeit Apple Stores in Korea too.

 

[callme]

Let's play this out...

Apple buys screens, memory, processors from Samsung.

Apple uses screens, memory, processors to build iPhones and iPads.

Samsung stops the sale of iPhones and iPads by suing Apple.

Apple stops making iPhones and iPads.

Apple stops buying screens, memory, processors from Samsung.

Samsung looses major customer.

 

[Smoother]

What I find funny about this whole thing is that I can't see any resemblance between iPad/iPhone and Galaxy tabs and phones. Seriously, besides them looking like all phones a rectangular phone with a large touch screen on the front.

Like how should you build phones? wouldn't they be stealing LG Pradas design in first case?

And then a grid of icons, which appear first when you open the menu? I thought all phones had a grid of icons when you open the menu?


It would be to me like Mercedes benz suing BMW for having 4 wheels, 8 windows, 5 doors and a hood, 2 exhausts etc on their cars..


Apples stupid lawsuit which WORKED in some crazy way, is only leading more and more companies like Samsung to deliver just as stupid lawsuits, cause it obviously works in some countries.



In the end Samsung might take a minor loss, Apple might take a minor loss but in reality we the consumers will take the biggest hit. (okay samsung might take a bigger loss, since they're about to lose their 2nd biggest customer).

 

[HelveticaRoman]

So they both sue each other into oblivion and the world's richest company turns out to be a law firm.

 

[callme]

Go on Samsung remove the ultimate patent trolls Apple. I hope they do get the iphone 5 banned. I can imagine all the Apple fanboys crying after they queue up for days to get one. Im sure if the Apple Store staff just write iphone 5 on the boxes for the iphone 4s the fanboys will still buy them.

Why do you bother coming here?
It can only be sadness at buying the wrong phone or jealousy.
I'm sure that no iPhone owners bother going to an HTC rumours site (if one exists) to post.
What is you exact purpose when visiting this web site?

 

[BC2009]

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Samsung has to prove why Apple has to pay them money?

Yes, you are right.... First Samsung has to prove Apple infringes -- but Apple has basically admitted that by saying these patents should be subject to FRAND licensing and that you can't make a mobile phone without them. So first, Samsung has to prove infringement, then Apple is going to make a case for FRAND licensing.

 

[callme]

Why would I have buyer's remorse? I have the best phone currently on the market until the Nexus Prime/Galaxy 3 or HTCs new phone come out It is also running the best mobile OS.

Again, if you have the best phone on the market, then get on with your life and use it. There is no purpose for you to come here other than to try to justify your purchase in your own little mind.

 

[Namji]

lol $5000 bribe???
what kind of bribe is that? If you are gonna bribe at least do it right.
Just goes to show you that they are not only corrupt but CHEAP as well !!

.

Are you for real? 5 million won = $5,445,000.00 5.4 million us dollars.