Samsung's Massive Document Outlining How to Improve Galaxy S by Adopting iPhone Solutions Surfaces

[Renzatic]

I'm too busy to pick it up. You know - because I'm spreading FEAR on here.

Gotch. Keep up the good work, man. You'll get that raise in no time. :thimb:

...also, it's FUD.

 

[Geckotek]

Actually, what you are asking to be allowed is not competition. A large number of devices with similar features and function is stupid. I want a large number of devices with different features and functions so that I can find the one that works best for me, not just pick from a bunch of very similar phones differentiated only by advertising copy.

First, I said similar, not the same. And yes, it is competition. Just like Hyundai and Kia (although owned by the same company) have similar features and designs....but not exactly the same, compete with each other.

 

[samcraig]

And what exactly was the significance of the first iPhone? How was it a vastly different and unprecedented device?

To me, it was a very well done smartphone. It looked great, had a smooth, responsive UI, and was one of the first phones you could actually browse the internet on it halfway decently. But it still didn't do more than any other phone that came before it.

Polish and shine are not revolutionary features.

It actually did a lot less. Some (not all) people seem to forget how little there was to do on the original iPhone and the first iOS. Play music, take pictures on a camera that was horrible even by 2007 standards, had email but no exchange or push, no mms, no copy/paste, no 3rd party apps. As you said - what it had was slick and polish for what it did have.

I'm not saying it wasn't a cool phone. I'm saying that what it could be used for vs other phones was extremely limited.

 

[lucas107]

I know it's rather silly to want to reward a company that innovates. Because in the short term, allowing someone else to steal that innovation and maybe add a feature or two that makes it slightly better gives me a better product. But when that other company then decides its not worth it to invest in making the next innovation because it'll just be stolen anyway, I lose out in the long term.

Short term thinking is why we get into an awful lot of trouble in the world.

to me the original iphone was just a phone with a added feature or 2 that made it slightly better. there is no true innovation in technology any more. can anyone point me a truly new product in tech in the past 10 years? also dont bother linking me to an iphone

 

[ARandomFellow]

It's not an argument, it's a specific answer to a specific question posed by you.

Actually, that was someone else. But the Prada phone is a very nice phone for its time that doesn't look at all like an iPhone or Galaxy phone. The shape is vaguely similar. That's about it. No one is actually saying that anyone copied 'a rectangle with rounded corners'. The actual accusation is that they copied the exact same rectangle with the exact same rounded corners and the same bezel and very similar UI and very similar icons in very similar packaging with very similar accessories. It's the whole package that makes it a terrible thing that Samsung has done. Not that they have also made a rectangular phone like everyone else.

 

[dgree03]

Actually, what you are asking to be allowed is not competition. A large number of devices with similar features and function is stupid. I want a large number of devices with different features and functions so that I can find the one that works best for me, not just pick from a bunch of very similar phones differentiated only by advertising copy.

And to whomever it was that used the car analogy with the 4 wheels... there are still a number of 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, and even 18 wheeled vehicles out there in the world. 4 isn't necessarily the de facto best. It just happens to be the most popular and maybe the most practical for most purposes. However, no one is arguing wheel count here. Wireless technology is the wheel here. We're talking about the curves of the body and the roofline and the dashboard and taillights. These are all cars. But clearly there is more than one way to design a phone, as many types of phones have existed. And clearly there is more than one way to arrange a UI. Clearly, there is more than one way to design an icon for phone app or a note taking app. Clearly, there is more than one way to make a box for a cell phone to go in. Clearly there is more than one way to make a USB plug to charge your cell phone with. Clearly, there is more than one way to design a generally rectangular shape with rounded corners. Yet strangely, Samsung chose to do all those things in nearly the exact same way as Apple and ended up with a product that looks a lot like an Apple product.

Personally, I wouldn't want to look that much like my competitor. I'd want to make something better.

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*takes a bow*

How many different ways are there to make a front loading washer and dryer? They all look "similar" to me? They all have similar functions, buttons(names and shapes), Why aren't they suing each other?

How many different ways are there to design a laptop? A HP envy and a Macbook pro look "similar" to me... why aren't they suing each other?

Why do all faucets look "similar"?

All video cameras look "similar"

Why is it OK in other industries to have "similar" looking products, but in the smartphone industry it is taboo?

----------

It actually did a lot less. Some (not all) people seem to forget how little there was to do on the original iPhone and the first iOS. Play music, take pictures on a camera that was horrible even by 2007 standards, had email but no exchange or push, no mms, no copy/paste, no 3rd party apps. As you said - what it had was slick and polish for what it did have.

I'm not saying it wasn't a cool phone. I'm saying that what it could be used for vs other phones was extremely limited.

No Video
No Video calling
No front facing camera
No GPS
Low res screen
No 3g

 

[samcraig]

How many different ways are there to make a front loading washer and dryer? They all look "similar" to me? They all have similar functions, buttons(names and shapes), Why aren't they suing each other?

How many different ways are there to design a laptop? A HP envy and a Macbook pro look "similar" to me... why aren't they suing each other?

Why do all faucets look "similar"?

All video cameras look "similar"

Why is it OK in other industries to have "similar" looking products, but in the smartphone industry it is taboo?

Apple doesn't make washer and dryers (yet)
Apple doesn't make video cameras (yet)
Apple doesn't make faucets (yet)

As for the MBP and HP Envy - when HP Envy sales start threatening Apple's profits - they'll be in court if not sooner.

----------

How many different ways are there to make a front loading washer and dryer? They all look "similar" to me? They all have similar functions, buttons(names and shapes), Why aren't they suing each other?

How many different ways are there to design a laptop? A HP envy and a Macbook pro look "similar" to me... why aren't they suing each other?

Why do all faucets look "similar"?

All video cameras look "similar"

Why is it OK in other industries to have "similar" looking products, but in the smartphone industry it is taboo?

----------



No Video
No Video calling
No front facing camera
No GPS
Low res screen
No 3g

Yes.. of course, those too.

 

[Geckotek]

Actually, that was someone else. But the Prada phone is a very nice phone for its time that doesn't look at all like an iPhone or Galaxy phone. The shape is vaguely similar. That's about it. No one is actually saying that anyone copied 'a rectangle with rounded corners'. The actual accusation is that they copied the exact same rectangle with the exact same rounded corners and the same bezel and very similar UI and very similar icons in very similar packaging with very similar accessories. It's the whole package that makes it a terrible thing that Samsung has done. Not that they have also made a rectangular phone like everyone else.

Sorry, the question was asked by Technarchy for a device with no keyboard and a capacitive touch screen (perhaps a couple of other things...I forget) that came out before the iPhone. The Prada phone met each of those items he requested. Just offering the answer that nobody else did. Not sure why you jumped in claiming I was posing some sort of argument.

 

[NT1440]

Sheeeeeeee.
You're being logical and will make the natives angry.

HAHA

It's a bit disheartening to watch people bring in anecdotal evidence that has nothing to do with the point of the thread, there is a TON of juicy details in this pdf and why no one wants to actually talk about those is beyond me.

If not for talking about this particular case, at least look at the document so people will finally truly understand how ****ing complicated designing a product is. Much of the discussion in this thread simply throws a "they wanted it that way"...or "couldn't they just blah blah" without actually thinking about the complexity of code, human behavior, user interface design, all rolled into one.

These things we carry around in out pocket allow us more access and freedom to information than US Presidents had access to only a few short decades ago. We need to stop taking the breathtaking technology for granted and understand that while everything is in a neat package, the world is getting infinitely more complex daily. Critical thinking needs to take root, or everything devolves into a pissing match over a single icon design.

Pity.

 

[twosee]

How many different ways are there to make a front loading washer and dryer? They all look "similar" to me? They all have similar functions, buttons(names and shapes), Why aren't they suing each other?

Why is it OK in other industries to have "similar" looking products, but in the smartphone industry it is taboo?

----------

No one really cares what a washer and dryer look like or how it behaves as long as their clothes get cleaned properly and it's good quality. but I bet you if samsung revolutionizes the washing machine industry and builds a touchscreen washer that dries/folds and hangs up your clothes for you, patents the technology, and then apple comes along, copies and makes an VERY "similar" machine... I bet you samsung would sue.

 

[Nand]

Actually... if this analogy is going to be used, it'd be more like this:

Apple saw someone else making a sandwich and tasted it and thought it sucked. So they started with a couple pieces of bread they got at the Whole Foods and decided it needed a little something. So they put a little herbed butter on it and toasted it. Then they went shopping and bought better quality ingredients directly from the farm where they were grown, but they asked the farmers if they could make their bacon a little less fatty than everyone else's, their chicken a little more thickly sliced, and with more flavor, and their tomato brighter red and without that nasty after taste. And they put their sandwich together, put some nice roasted pepper mayonnaise on it, sliced it in half diagonally so that it'd be easy to eat, wrapped it up in nice, thick paper like you get from a gourmet deli (you know the kind) so that it would stay fresh, put one of those cute toothpick things through it to hold it together so that it would still look good when you got it home to eat it.

Then Samsung said "That's a really nice sandwich they made. I'll make one just like that. Call those flippin' farmers! And get me some of that herby butter that makes the bread so tasty! And source me some great mayo! ANd call the paper company my sister owns! I need some paper to wrap this thing in like Apple did theirs! and toothpicks! Holy cow, I need toothpicks now! Get me all that and put it together just like they did! But put some poppy seeds in the bread so the stupid people don't think we totally copied their sandwich"

"Look...me and McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's ...I'm McDowell's. They got the golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arc's. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. we both got two all beef patties, special sauce,lettuce,cheese,pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.

 

[twosee]

As for the MBP and HP Envy - when HP Envy sales start threatening Apple's profits - they'll be in court if not sooner.

Last I checked... Apples profits were not in any danger. Not sure what company you are thinking about.

 

[Geckotek]

"Look...me and McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's ...I'm McDowell's. They got the golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arc's. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. we both got two all beef patties, special sauce,lettuce,cheese,pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.

I love that movie.

 

[BaldiMac]

And what exactly was the significance of the first iPhone? How was it a vastly different and unprecedented device?

To me, the most significant features were a multitouch UI, large screen, capacitive multitouch screen, modern OS with advanced APIs and libraries, webkit browser, iTunes integration for music and other media, direct updates, and minimal carrier influence on design and features.

To me, it was a very well done smartphone. It looked great, had a smooth, responsive UI, and was one of the first phones you could actually browse the internet on it halfway decently. But it still didn't do more than any other phone that came before it.

Polish and shine are not revolutionary features.

And yet it revolutionized an industry. Strange.

See #1 of my previous post. Have a wonderful day BaldiMac.

It's not really interesting to me to make up both sides of the discussion. I'm still hoping for an answer to a simple question. What phones, exactly, were you referring to when you said "Phones like the iPhone were already in the market"?

 

[Geckotek]

Last I checked... Apples profits were not in any danger. Not sure what company you are thinking about.

Actually, they fell considerably short of analyst predictions last quarter. There's a lot of talk that they are losing ground to Android phones right now. We'll have to see how the iPhone 5 does and follow the next few quarters results to see if that's really the direction things are headed, but there is some concern right now.

 

[samcraig]

No one really cares what a washer and dryer look like or how it behaves as long as their clothes get cleaned properly and it's good quality. but I bet you if samsung revolutionizes the washing machine industry and builds a touchscreen washer that dries/folds and hangs up your clothes for you, patents the technology, and then apple comes along, copies and makes an VERY "similar" machine... I bet you samsung would sue.

I would disagree. If you've ever owned a home or renovated - you care a lot about what appliances look like.

Further - there are many people who don't care what their phone looks like or how fancy it is - they just want a decent phone that can make calls, check their email and update their facebook status.

 

[Geckotek]

To me, the most significant features were a multitouch UI, large screen, capacitive multitouch screen, modern OS with advanced APIs and libraries, webkit browser, iTunes integration for music and other media, direct updates, and minimal carrier influence on design and features.

Ok, I'm no programer, but I don't think any API's were available on the first iPhone.

 

[samcraig]

Last I checked... Apples profits were not in any danger. Not sure what company you are thinking about.

I didn't say they were. I said if the HP Envy starts selling very well - and eats Apple's marketshare of the laptop market - I would bet they will find themselves in court over trade dress.

 

[ARandomFellow]

to me the original iphone was just a phone with a added feature or 2 that made it slightly better. there is no true innovation in technology any more. can anyone point me a truly new product in tech in the past 10 years? also dont bother linking me to an iphone

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

lol... sorry, it had to be done. And I'd actually stand by it. I don't think there's any argument to be made that the iPhone didn't change the smart phone world drastically and that change has made a huge change in the world (sometimes not for the better), and though you can say there were smart phones before the iPhone (because there were), the iPhone changed the definition of a smart phone and everyone else had to play catchup for at least a couple years. And I'm sorry, but I think it's disingenuous of people to say that the iPhone just took existing tech and made it a little bit better or different. You're all fooling yourselves if you think Samsung or HTC or Sony was on track to make anything at all like an iPhone. Apple pushed everyone forward 5 years at least.

That's what you get for asking that question on an Apple centric site. lol

 

[samcraig]

Ok, I'm no programer, but I don't think any API's were available on the first iPhone.

They weren't available because there were no 3rd party apps on the iPhone nor was there an app store.

 

[NT1440]

Actually, they fell considerably short of analyst predictions last quarter. There's a lot of talk that they are losing ground to Android phones right now. We'll have to see how the iPhone 5 does and follow the next few quarters results to see if that's really the direction things are headed, but there is some concern right now.

Apple doesn't care about marketshare when its making 80% of the entire profits of the industry.

 

[twosee]

I would disagree. If you've ever owned a home or renovated - you care a lot about what appliances look like.

Further - there are many people who don't care what their phone looks like or how fancy it is - they just want a decent phone that can make calls, check their email and update their facebook status.

I actually own a front load Samsung washer and dryer. They are tucked away in the laundry room, behind a closed door. I could care less what they looked like. I went by quality, rating and price... not look.

 

[uknowimright]

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

lol... sorry, it had to be done. And I'd actually stand by it. I don't think there's any argument to be made that the iPhone didn't change the smart phone world drastically and that change has made a huge change in the world (sometimes not for the better), and though you can say there were smart phones before the iPhone (because there were), the iPhone changed the definition of a smart phone and everyone else had to play catchup for at least a couple years. And I'm sorry, but I think it's disingenuous of people to say that the iPhone just took existing tech and made it a little bit better or different. You're all fooling yourselves if you think Samsung or HTC or Sony was on track to make anything at all like an iPhone. Apple pushed everyone forward 5 years at least.

That's what you get for asking that question on an Apple centric site. lol

iphone only started being revolutionary until people started hacking it and adding apps and then Apple decided oh that's actually a good idea

 

[samcraig]

I actually own a front load Samsung washer and dryer. They are tucked away in the laundry room, behind a closed door. I could care less what they looked like. I went by quality, rating and price... not look.

I missed the part where you represent everyone who buys washer and dryers

 

[BaldiMac]

to me the original iphone was just a phone with a added feature or 2 that made it slightly better. there is no true innovation in technology any more. can anyone point me a truly new product in tech in the past 10 years? also dont bother linking me to an iphone

That's a trick question. What's your arbitrary definition of a "truly new product" that manages to exclude the iPhone?

Ok, I'm no programer, but I don't think any API's were available on the first iPhone.

How do you think Apple was able to write apps for it? They just weren't available to third parties at the time. (And that doesn't include javascript support.)