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I didn't say they were. I said if the HP Envy starts selling very well - and eats Apple's marketshare of the laptop market - I would bet they will find themselves in court over trade dress.

Actually you said:

"when HP Envy sales start threatening Apple's profits - they'll be in court if not sooner."

I assumed you meant that the reason they are suing is because their profits are being threatened. And falling short of analysts expectations is just analysts guessing what apple should be making. They still had record profits, beat last quarters, etc etc... Still the most valuable company in the world (or #2... don't know for certain, haven't checked lately).
 
Actually you said:

"when HP Envy sales start threatening Apple's profits - they'll be in court if not sooner."

I assumed you meant that the reason they are suing is because their profits are being threatened. And falling short of analysts expectations is just analysts guessing what apple should be making. They still had record profits, beat last quarters, etc etc... Still the most valuable company in the world (or #2... don't know for certain, haven't checked lately).

I apologize for the confusion in my post. I'm guessing you understand what I meant now? Apple doesn't much care about products in the marketplace that aren't selling. That's probably an over-generalization. Most likely is. My tongue-in-cheek comment was that if the Envy started going neck and neck with the MBP - I would bet Apple would sue for trade dress or something else.
 
iphone only started being revolutionary until people started hacking it and adding apps and then Apple decided oh that's actually a good idea

No, thats when it really took off.

I'd say being the first mainstream device with a true internet browser shook the industry pretty damn hard.
 
http://www.apple.com/iphone/

lol... sorry, it had to be done. And I'd actually stand by it. I don't think there's any argument to be made that the iPhone didn't change the smart phone world drastically and that change has made a huge change in the world (sometimes not for the better), and though you can say there were smart phones before the iPhone (because there were), the iPhone changed the definition of a smart phone and everyone else had to play catchup for at least a couple years. And I'm sorry, but I think it's disingenuous of people to say that the iPhone just took existing tech and made it a little bit better or different. You're all fooling yourselves if you think Samsung or HTC or Sony was on track to make anything at all like an iPhone. Apple pushed everyone forward 5 years at least.

That's what you get for asking that question on an Apple centric site. lol
i know you and many others feel that way. the point of the question is to find another item in tech so you can prove your point that new innovations in tech do happen to me. again i dont see the iphone as that. point me to another product so at least i can understand how you do because currently i find it rather silly
Apple doesn't care about marketshare when its making 80% of the entire profits of the industry. ;)

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2012/08/android-trouncs-iphone.html
im pretty sure they care about that
 
How many different ways are there to make a front loading washer and dryer? They all look "similar" to me? They all have similar functions, buttons(names and shapes), Why aren't they suing each other?

How many different ways are there to design a laptop? A HP envy and a Macbook pro look "similar" to me... why aren't they suing each other?

Why do all faucets look "similar"?

All video cameras look "similar"

Why is it OK in other industries to have "similar" looking products, but in the smartphone industry it is taboo?:confused:

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No Video
No Video calling
No front facing camera
No GPS
Low res screen
No 3g


There are thousands of faucets on the market and tens of thousands over the years, there are unquestionably going to be superficial similarities. Same goes for phones and tablets, it's the convergence of these areas of similarity that takes it out of the "purely functional" feature set and into the areas of claimed infringement.

Samsung picked a shape similar to the iPhone for a reason, it chose to modify its icons to those which resemble iOS icons for a reason, it chose to have a similar layout for a reason. To argue that those are all "coincidence" is a fantasy-land perspective. Sure, separate out any single decision and you can give someone the benefit of a doubt, but when they all appear simultaneously then there's something else going on.
 
i know you and many others feel that way. the point of the question is to find another item in tech so you can prove your point that new innovations in tech do happen to me. again i dont see the iphone as that. point me to another product so at least i can understand how you do because currently i find it rather silly


http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/morning_call/2012/08/android-trouncs-iphone.html
im pretty sure they care about that

They'll care about that if the pattern continues. Remember, their "latest" phone is eight months old.

I don't think Apple will or can catch up to Android marketshare wise, and obviously no oem is going to catch Apple profit wise. Just depends on what you think is more important to a business.

The fact that you can have low marketshare and still destroy your competition in profits is impressive though.
 
That's a trick question. What's your arbitrary definition of a "truly new product" that manages to exclude the iPhone?

wow you like to argue. your opinion to you might be right. it does not make it the right one. nor does mine you will not change my opinion on the iphone unless somewhere i missed a huge chunk of what it is. to validate the argument that it was revolutionary and a huge innovation please point me to anything else that is so i can understand how you can believe it to be when to me there is no such thing any more.
 
They'll care about that if the pattern continues. Remember, their "latest" phone is eight months old.

I don't think Apple will or can catch up to Android marketshare wise, and obviously no oem is going to catch Apple profit wise. Just depends on what you think is more important to a business.

The fact that you can have low marketshare and still destroy your competition in profits is impressive though.

its impressive they have convinced people their products are worth that markup. most are not to me.
 
Whew, I'm tired... I was hoping to reach 999 posts on this thread but I aint gonna make it. When does the next line of questioning come out so we can argue a new topic?
 
nor does mine you will not change my opinion on the iphone unless somewhere i missed a huge chunk of what it is. to validate the argument that it was revolutionary and a huge innovation please point me to anything else that is so i can understand how you can believe it to be when to me there is no such thing any more.

You asked a question. It's one that is asked often and resorts to the same argument because no one chooses to define what they mean by "truly new" or "invention" or "innovation". I asked you to clarify what you mean by the question, so I could answer it.
 
You're kidding, right?

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No, I'm not. Other than samsung the rest of the industry is falling apart. Apple is massively successful doing exactly what they always do, ignoring the numbers (unless it looks good at a keynote) and focusing on a great experience that sells well.
 
To me, the most significant features were a multitouch UI, large screen, capacitive multitouch screen, modern OS with advanced APIs and libraries, webkit browser, iTunes integration for music and other media, direct updates, and minimal carrier influence on design and features.

The APIs and libraries would've been nigh useless for anyone besides Apple, considering the first iPhone had no way to directly install apps to speak of.

An actual, honest PC equivalent webkit browser? Oh yes. Very much so. This one feature is symbolic of the biggest change Apple made to the smartphone market. It wasn't technology or UI design that helped them along, rather it was how they treated the platform as a small computer, rather than a PDA/Phone.

iTunes integration? Nice, but hardly revolutionary. They streamlined the process a bit using a specific piece of software to do all the work for you, but that's only a smallish tweak to an already familiar process. People have been putting videos and music onto portable devices for at least a couple of years by that point.

Large screen? Not exactly a surprise here. The Prada and other similar phones had roughly the same sized screens by that point.

Capacitive multitouch? Yes and no. Apple was, as far as I know, the first company to release a portable multitouch device. Does that mean they pioneered the entire field, and it never would've happened had they not bravely shown up on the scene? No. It's a natural evolutionary step for the previously long line of touchscreen devices to take. There have been plenty of phones that used a stylus or a single finger as the primary method of input. Plenty of devices that used the screen as the sole method of input. Apple jumped ahead of everyone else in the game, but didn't invent the idea, nor the technology behind it.

And don't say "it's obvious now that Apple's done it". That's a cop out answer. It's obvious in the sense that it's the obvious next step. Single touch makes way for multitouch. Haptic technologies are probably the next obvious step beyond that.

Direct updates and no carrier involvement? I applaud Apple for this move. It's one of the reasons why I bought my iPhone to begin with. But how is that revolutionary or unprecedented? OSes have been doing this for years. The only thing Apple did was tell the carriers off. It's a plus for their negotiation skills, nothing more.

And yet it revolutionized an industry. Strange.

Revolutionized? Arguably. Made hugely popular? Most definitely.

It's not really interesting to me to make up both sides of the discussion. I'm still hoping for an answer to a simple question. What phones, exactly, were you referring to when you said "Phones like the iPhone were already in the market"?

And it's been answered many a time. The Prada. The vast number of WinMo phones. Symbian phones. They're all natural predecessors to the iPhone, which was a device that shook things up a bit, but didn't reinvent entirely.
 
its impressive they have convinced people their products are worth that markup. most are not to me.

Welcome to capitalism. If ppl buy their products at the price they set, that's not apples fault. (it's also not brainwashing, which may be one of the stupidest justifications I've ever heard for apples success)
 
Again, marketshare =/= profits.

No, but marketshare is always a key indicator of any company's success in their field and is very closely watched by analysts and stock holders (in addition to profits). Trust me when I say they care about market share. And back to my original point, they got hammered in their last conference call over missing projections.
 
iphone only started being revolutionary until people started hacking it and adding apps and then Apple decided oh that's actually a good idea

So because it wasn't instantly revolutionary, the fact that it IS revolutionary doesn't matter? By that definition, Samsung makes only crappy feature phones, at best. Have you seen their first phone? What a piece of junk that was. It had a horrible little screen on it with ridiculous calculator numbers. And all it had were these big white buttons that could dial a phone number. That's it. Nothing else. You called people, and you hung up. Utter junk. No way those guys could ever make anything decent. \sarcasm

The fact that in one generation of phones Apple leapfrogged all of them is utterly amazing. How could a company new to the business so thoroughly crush all the big players for years before anyone even got close to catching up?

That's called innovation, kids. Differentiation. Thinking differently.

So all of you on here who think Samsung is just a victim of poor timing... I'd like you to think about this for a minute: They were making parts for the original iPhone and they STILL took years to catch up. How is that possible if they're already on the same path and Apple doesn't do anything new or different than anyone else? How does that logic work in your head, exactly?
 
Again, marketshare =/= profits.

Agreed - but it's pretty much a given that on this forum - market share counts when it's Apple who's dominant (profit or not) and profit matters when Apple is the leader (market share or not).

I agree that market share and profits are two different things. I also believe that there is enough profit to "go around." Different companies have different models for their business. And several are making a ton of money despite not having the record profits as another or market share.

Market share becomes more important, I believe - although I would see a debate on this - for sustainability. If you have the lion share of the market with various products and one of your products fail - it's not as big of a deal. If you only have one horse in the race - making tons of profit but then have one failure, it could be an issue.

Again - different companies and different models. No doubt Apple shareholders like record profits as does the company itself. I don't believe that they don't care about market share though. Just like I am sure other manufacturers enjoy their market share but would love to increase their profits.
 
No, but marketshare is always a key indicator of any company's success in their field and is very closely watched by analysts and stock holders (in addition to profits). Trust me when I say they care about market share. And back to my original point, they got hammered in their last conference call over missing projections.

You are right of course about them missing projections, but do you refuse to see the circumstances behind it? Considering they still improved year over year and had 8 billion dollars in profit with an eight month old phone, why is the first inclination that they are going downhill?

They missed projections, but they are in no danger of...anything.

The next iPhone will probably have LTE, NFC and a bigger screen. I think it's clear they're not going to miss projections when it comes out and will most probably beat it. Apple is the only company that can make more profit in a quarter then most companies do in a year (and some in years) and still be in a discussion about impending failure or implosion.
 
You are right of course about them missing projections, but do you refuse to see the circumstances behind it? Considering they still improved year over year and had 8 billion dollars in profit with an eight month old phone, why is the first inclination that they are going downhill?

They missed projections, but they are in no danger of...anything.

The next iPhone will probably have LTE, NFC and a bigger screen. I think it's clear they're not going to miss projections when it comes out and will most probably beat it. Apple is the only company that can make more profit in a quarter then most companies do in a year (and some in years) and still be in a discussion about impending failure or implosion.

I saw their answers and I saw other interpretations as well. Do you just swallow everything they feed you?

I'm not by any means saying they are in trouble, but concern exists.
 
The fact that in one generation of phones Apple leapfrogged all of them is utterly amazing. How could a company new to the business so thoroughly crush all the big players for years before anyone even got close to catching up?

That's called innovation, kids. Differentiation. Thinking differently.

So all of you on here who think Samsung is just a victim of poor timing... I'd like you to think about this for a minute: They were making parts for the original iPhone and they STILL took years to catch up. How is that possible if they're already on the same path and Apple doesn't do anything new or different than anyone else? How does that logic work in your head, exactly?


1. leapfrogged? Except for some cool features - the iPhone was far behind in specs and usability. "leapfrogged" is purely subjective. What good is a cool looking phone that can't get my work email. Show me where I am on a map? Take a decent picture? etc? And given that they could take their time and see what everyone else was doing is an advantage. If NOTHING else - they didn't need to worry about legacy support.

2. It didn't take Samsung or others YEARS to catch up. And do you have any idea how long it takes to get a phone from concept to launch? Seriously. Because I do. First hand.
 
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