Samsung's New Texas Factory for A5 Chip Production Now Fully Operational

[Hellhammer]

Whats to keep samsung from copying all the tech for the new SOC and using it in oh.say. a new galaxy tab ?

Nothing, and they even have the right to do that if they wanted. Apple's A5 uses two ARM Cortex 9 cores, just like TI OMAP 4 and NVidia Tegra 2 for example. The GPU isn't designed by Apple either, it's done by Imagination Technologies. Any chip maker could use the same PowerVR SGX 543MP2 if they wanted, but most have chosen a lower-end GPU (that's a two-die GPU so it's quite expensive, and there are plenty of other bottlenecks too).

 

[hot spare]

Samsung can't cancel their contract with Apple, they are its biggest customer. Apple would survive because there is other suppliers they could buy from, but would be a shock in the short run. Long run they can survive, you don't think there are contingencies just in case Samsung decides to slit its own wrists....

Samsung canceling this contract would waive goodbye to any chance to sell anything they produce, lose countless jobs, and wouldn't meet a quarterly estimate ever again. They rely on Apple to buy their products just like they rely on people to buy their own Galaxy products. Problem for them is, Apple's product is in more demand, so if they try to cut ties to gain the upper hand, Apple will find another supply chain and they will just lose out on the easiest money...

We at the Macrumors forum know more about Samsung than certain Mr. J.K. Shin. Lee Jae-yong may as well hire us for controlling the operations.

 

[AppleMark]

The irony of this entire article and situation is off the chart...

Indeed.

Perhaps a case of "keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer"?

Or simpler still, that it is just good business. You do not have to like the people you work with, but you do need to respect them.

Both Apple and Samsung are very large and well respected corporate companies, doing the usual cat and mouse politics that keep them at the top.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Nothing, and they even have the right to do that if they wanted. Apple's A5 uses two ARM Cortex 9 cores, just like TI OMAP 4 and NVidia Tegra 2 for example. The GPU isn't designed by Apple either, it's done by Imagination Technologies. Any chip maker could use the same PowerVR SGX 543MP2 if they wanted, but most have chosen a lower-end GPU (that's a two-die GPU so it's quite expensive, and there are plenty of other bottlenecks too).

Apple licensed the specs for the ARM and PowerVR and implement them as they see fit. The Design of the A4/A5/A6 implementation of the ARM Cortex A series and PowerVR SGX 5xx series are unique in design.

ARM doesn't make CPUs. They make CPU designs.

http://arm.com/about/company-profile/index.php

ImgTec makes PowerVR IP Cores. The GPGPUs are designed, implemented and manufactured by 3rd parties for their licensed needs.

http://imgtec.com/partners/Licensees.asp

 

[Hellhammer]

Apple licensed the specs for the ARM and PowerVR and implement them as they see fit. The Design of the A4/A5/A6 implementation of the ARM Cortex A series and PowerVR SGX 5xx series are unique in design.

ARM doesn't make CPUs. They make CPU designs.

http://arm.com/about/company-profile/index.php

ImgTec makes PowerVR IP Cores. The GPGPUs are designed, implemented and manufactured by 3rd parties for their licensed needs.

http://imgtec.com/partners/Licensees.asp

I know neither of them manufactures anything. My point was that anyone could license the same CPU and GPU and use them in their SoCs. E.g. TI OMAP 4470 is pretty darn close with two Cortex 9 cores and SGX 544.

 

[LobsterDK]

Yup. Samsungs real good at making their own distinctive stuff.

You said "technology", not aesthetics. Two entirely different things. If you still mean technology, just what technology Apple uses do you think is unique and would require "copying" for other OEMs to implement? It's an ARM CPU, PowerVR GPU, flash from various sources, panels from several sources, RAM from several sources, etc. etc.

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Am i the only one who thinks its strange that on one side apple is suing samsung snd on the other side they are happy partners and buy displays from them?

If i was samsung, i'd question this deal.

No, no one on the planet has ever thought such a thing, ever. Your powers of perception are incredible. Good thing you pointed it out to us. I don't think anyone would have ever made that connection

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Nice to see that SAMSUNG are creating jobs in the US. Shame APPLE cant do the same...

This factory was built by Samsung to build parts for Apple products and Apple products only. The new jobs are credited to both Samsung and Apple.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yup. Samsungs real good at making their own distinctive stuff.

You mean like the Exynos SoC they made ? Like the PVA display technology they invented ? Their AMOLED line of displays ?

Their 2nd only to IBM patent filing/year numbers ?

Really, what do you mean ? Samsung is in the semi-conductors business. This is what they do.

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I know neither of them manufactures anything. My point was that anyone could license the same CPU and GPU and use them in their SoCs. E.g. TI OMAP 4470 is pretty darn close with two Cortex 9 cores and SGX 544.

The Samsung Exynos 4210 is much simpler. It's a ARM Cortex A9 with the Mali MP4 400 GPU design from ARM. The previous Exynos used a ImgTec GPU (SGX540). And frankly, Peace was waaaaaaay out of line, Samsung have been making SoCs for quite a while, the Exynos line-up dates back to the early 2000s :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exynos

But of course, when you can bash the competition, why bother with fact checking ?

 

[JS77]

To the Samsung-haters... "We have to let go of this notion that for Apple to win, Samsung has to lose."

 

[KnightWRX]

This factory was built by Samsung to build parts for Apple products and Apple products only. The new jobs are credited to both Samsung and Apple.

Remains to be seen how much of this is actually Apple's doing. Let's not give credit if none is deserved. I see no mention of Apple in the related articles aside from who the parts are going to. For all we know, Apple had no say in this, Samsung just decided to build the new SoC factory at the same place they already had a NAND factory for logistic purposes.

 

[gnasher729]

A Korean company builds a chip factory in the Texas to be assembled into a product in China. This makes no sense to me just from the logistical complications, let alone the wage differences.

The transport cost of computer chips is absolutely minimal compared to other costs.

 

[KnightWRX]

The transport cost of computer chips is absolutely minimal compared to other costs.

So are the assembly line's employee wages, yet you see that often cited as to way assembly is done in China rather than the US.

Frankly, the difference in wages would barely impact the overall margin on the product. The reason we're shipping things out overseas has nothing to do with wages themselves, but rather lack of investment in manufacturing capacity as North American societies move towards more service based economies. Recruiting in the manufacturing sector is getting harder to do and some companies are forced to out source the manufacturing because of it.

 

[balamw]

A Korean company builds a chip factory in the Texas to be assembled into a product in China.

More likely these A5s (and other chips) are destined for Foxconn/Apple in Brazil.

B

 

[mijail]

I know neither of them manufactures anything. My point was that anyone could license the same CPU and GPU and use them in their SoCs. E.g. TI OMAP 4470 is pretty darn close with two Cortex 9 cores and SGX 544.

Yep, one could license those, but that wouldn't replicate the A4, which seems to be quite customized. At the very least you have there ex-Intrinsity and ex-ATI/AMD engineers, and the Apple-Samsung collaboration to put it together.

http://venturebeat.com/2010/02/05/apple-a4-ipad/

 

[Hellhammer]

Yep, one could license those, but that wouldn't replicate the A4, which seems to be quite customized. At the very least you have there ex-Intrinsity and ex-ATI/AMD engineers, and the Apple-Samsung collaboration to put it together.

http://venturebeat.com/2010/02/05/apple-a4-ipad/

A4 was still based on Cortex A8 and PowerVR SGX 535, although it appears that it was a bit more than just the stock design. Not something like Qualcomm's Snapdragon, though.

 

[KnightWRX]

Yep, one could license those, but that wouldn't replicate the A4, which seems to be quite customized. At the very least you have there ex-Intrinsity and ex-ATI/AMD engineers, and the Apple-Samsung collaboration to put it together.

Look, Hellhammer knows this and we all do really. The point was that Peace said Samsung could copy Apple's design if they manufacture the processor, we were simply pointing out to Mr. Peace that much of that design is open, licenseable specs to begin with.

And we were also pointing out the other gorilla in the room : Samsung already has SoC design teams and they've been designing and making SoCs since before Apple even entered the mobile market, by quite a few years too.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

I couldn't agree more. Great to see Apple parts being made in America.

You mean great to see Samsung parts made in America for Apple devices?

 

[Les Kern]

I think it's great to see some american jobs being created.

It would be nice if Apple controlled more parts of the fab process that makes their products and helped bring even more jobs to the US, but this is close enough for me.

Not for me.

 

[ChrisTX]

No matter how you spin it; I applaud Samsung for creating a factory in the US.

I wonder how much (if apple applied a premium on it's products) the prices would rise if Apple had to build and assemble all of it's products here in the US. I wouldn't mind paying more knowing is was all built here in the US.

While the idea of American made Apple products is certainly enticing. I don't want to pay more for Apple products just because. Also pretty sure there's video of Steve Jobs talking about the fact that congress makes it impossible for companies like Apple to manufacture in the states due to higher taxes and such.

 

[Riemann Zeta]

Both shocking and cool to see complex SoC circuitry made in the USA again. Maybe this will start a trend.

 

[nylonsteel]

re original article

what a paradox aapl dealings with samsung
sorta weird love hate relationship
hope aapl can wash its hands of samsung going forward

 

[DanteMann]

WAY TO GO SAMSUNG!!!

You're doing what APPLE should do, GIVE BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY IN NEED!!! Bring manufacturing back to the USA. One of the biggest markets for Apple devices.
Samsung, you did not have to do this. You could have easily gone with cheap third world labour like Apple ALWAYS does, but you actually went for the exact opposite. On behalf of all the AMERICAN blind followers that won't give you a BIG UNCONDITIONAL THANK YOU, I THANK YOU!!!!

 

[alent1234]

Whats to keep samsung from copying all the tech for the new SOC and using it in oh.say. a new galaxy tab ?

A4 and A5 CPU's use samsung's CPU's as a base with some custom modifications

 

[JHankwitz]

re original article

what a paradox aapl dealings with samsung
sorta weird love hate relationship
hope aapl can wash its hands of samsung going forward

That's quite a twisted perspective. Apple and Samsung are both in business to make a profit by providing customers with products they want.

This is not unlike two basketball team players during a game. They both want to win the game to increase viewer attendance, and both want to score the most points to the game. But in the end, they are friends with each other no matter who made the most points because they both are in it to win the game. Players that don't work together and support each other tend to loose.

 

[thetexan]

I'm not sure why in this country we bash oil companies for making an 8-10% profit but let companies like Apple off the hook with 20-25% profits. Apple and highly profitable US based companies like Apple should do more to bring jobs to Americans either directly or through contractors like this decision.

I applaud this decision and hope to see more of these things happening.

 

[clibinarius]

Samsung can't cancel their contract with Apple, they are its biggest customer. Apple would survive because there is other suppliers they could buy from, but would be a shock in the short run. Long run they can survive, you don't think there are contingencies just in case Samsung decides to slit its own wrists....

Samsung canceling this contract would waive goodbye to any chance to sell anything they produce, lose countless jobs, and wouldn't meet a quarterly estimate ever again. They rely on Apple to buy their products just like they rely on people to buy their own Galaxy products. Problem for them is, Apple's product is in more demand, so if they try to cut ties to gain the upper hand, Apple will find another supply chain and they will just lose out on the easiest money...

You vastly overestimate the amount of money Apple provides Samsung. Samsung would grow back to where they are now without Apple in...3 years. Its just not in the shareholders best interest. However, in the interim, Apple components would go up in price. Apple could probably keep consumer prices the same, but their profit margins would shrink. It wouldn't sink Apple either, but would probably hurt Apple more since they have fewer parts available, whereas Samsung could take production of Apple goods and move it towards supplying other companies more. It'd hurt both businesses to the tune of millions of dollars a year, importantly.