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Apr 12, 2001
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After Apple filed a new motion for sanctions against Samsung for unlawfully obtaining sensitive information about its 2011 patent license agreement with Nokia, Judge Lucy Koh has denied three Samsung motions intended to slow the investigation, reports FOSS Patents.

Samsung had asked Judge Koh to overrule the findings of Judge Paul S. Grewal in the original filing by Apple because of alleged errors, but Samsung's request was denied by Judge Koh, who proceeded to call Samsung's lack of information during the three-month time period since the alleged violation "inexcusable".
Judge Grewal had said in his order last week that "[t]here is reason to believe the rule [that confidential information made available only to outside counsel won't be disclosed to the party itself] has been breached in the present case", and at the related hearing he suggested to Samsung's counsel again and again and again that the occurrence of violations could and should be admitted because the facts are so very clear. Samsung then brought a set of motions asking Judge Koh to overrule Judge Grewal because some of his findings were allegedly erroneous and contrary to law. Judge Koh, however, has concluded that Judge Grewal's related decision was "eminently reasonable".

Samsung and the law firm representing it in this case now face an even bigger problem than before because Judge Koh's order makes clear that there has been some wrongdoing:

Footnote 1 (page 9):

"Samsung's exhibits to its motions for relief show that Quinn Emanuel did in fact improperly disclose information about the other Apple licenses to Samsung's employees."
Judge Koh also mentioned in the court order that the case at hand involves multiple parties that have upcoming trials within her court, and that the issue of Samsung's unlawful actions must be solved quickly in order to allow the other trials to proceed normally. The hearing for this case will reportedly be held next Tuesday, October 22, barring an inability to hold trial due to the ongoing shutdown of the U.S. government.

Since 2011, Samsung and Apple have been in a long, ongoing legal battle over patent and design issues, with the first U.S. trial awarding $1 billion to Apple in 2012. However, a judge voided nearly half of that amount in March, and a new trial between the two companies is set for this November. Apple senior vice president of worldwide marketing Phil Schiller and former senior vice president of iOS software Scott Forstall may also take the stand in the retrial.

Article Link: Samsung's Request to Delay Investigation of Apple-Nokia Patent License Leaks Denied
 

Red Oak

Suspended
Jun 14, 2011
470
2,641
Samsung is rotten at its core. I'll never buy another Samsung product again
 

Nyy8

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2011
523
179
New England
I'm so lost in this entire Samsung vs Apple war. Last I checked they were fighting over tap to zoom, and "slide to unlock". Someone please fill me in.

Not sure thoughts about this by everyone, but Samsung makes some amazing TVs :)
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
It will be interesting to see how the judge calculates damages for the unlawful disclosures, and how much of that will be applied to the law firms themselves. I see insurance claims on the horizon. Maybe even disbarments!

The case was "simplified" from dozens of claims to a few just to establish that there is a patent violation. The remaining claims do not add appreciably to the damage amount which is why both parties and the judge all consented to that.

Yes there is evidence Samsung tactically violates patents and deals with the lawsuit layer separately and as a cost of doing business. So far the tradeoff has been very, very profitable.

Since there is going to be a retrial on the damages due to incomplete jury rulings, the judge could add sanctions of reviving all prior claims as a means to increase the statutory damages.
 
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Dulcimer

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2012
917
876
The litigation continues on both sides as more and more delays occur in the trial. But at least the lawyers are getting paid ;)
 

Klae17

macrumors 65816
Jul 15, 2011
1,239
1,652
The litigation continues on both sides as more and more delays occur in the trial. But at least the lawyers are getting paid ;)

Yea and so are engineers and retail and management and Chinese assembly line workers. What's your point?
 

Lord Hamsa

macrumors 6502a
Jul 16, 2013
698
675
I'm so lost in this entire Samsung vs Apple war. Last I checked they were fighting over tap to zoom, and "slide to unlock". Someone please fill me in.

As I understand it, during the lawsuit, Samsung requested access to details of some of Apple's other licensing deals, including with Nokia. Apple countered that Samsung had no business knowing their licensing deals and the judge took a middle ground, saying that the deal could be reviewed, but by a third party who was to keep the details confidential from Samsung proper.

That didn't happen. The third party put the information on Samsung's internal servers, and a Samsung exec flat-out told Nokia he knew the contents of the agreement when negotiating terms with them.
 

Moonjumper

macrumors 68030
Jun 20, 2009
2,741
2,909
Lincoln, UK
The litigation continues on both sides as more and more delays occur in the trial. But at least the lawyers are getting paid ;)

Some of them maybe for not much longer. If this all proves to be true in court, the consequences could be major for the careers of those who disclosed the information.
 

Moccasin

macrumors 65816
Mar 21, 2011
1,005
220
Newcastle, UK
As I understand it, during the lawsuit, Samsung requested access to details of some of Apple's other licensing deals, including with Nokia. Apple countered that Samsung had no business knowing their licensing deals and the judge took a middle ground, saying that the deal could be reviewed, but by a third party who was to keep the details confidential from Samsung proper.

That didn't happen. The third party put the information on Samsung's internal servers, and a Samsung exec flat-out told Nokia he knew the contents of the agreement when negotiating terms with them.

You could only see this as an honest error if Samsung and their lawyers had come clean straight away after realising their error. Instead a senior exec taunted Nokia with the confidential patent knowledge, which he shouldn't even have had and yet which he knew off by heart.

Their lack of co-operation since suggests real lack of understanding of their "mistake" and a lack of contrition.

Will be interested to see what sanctions are applied. A rather nice irony that the case is due to be heard on the same day as the iPad event!
 

samh004

macrumors 68020
Mar 1, 2004
2,222
141
Australia
As I understand it, during the lawsuit, Samsung requested access to details of some of Apple's other licensing deals, including with Nokia. Apple countered that Samsung had no business knowing their licensing deals and the judge took a middle ground, saying that the deal could be reviewed, but by a third party who was to keep the details confidential from Samsung proper.

That didn't happen. The third party put the information on Samsung's internal servers, and a Samsung exec flat-out told Nokia he knew the contents of the agreement when negotiating terms with them.

This is more interesting than the original case!

Ignoring the third party issue, who could probably be disbarred, the fact Samsung didn't immediately inform the judge, but in fact used the information to strike deals themselves could really land them in hot water I'd have thought. Plenty of opportunity to do the right thing, but of course, they didn't.
 

Jax44

Contributor
Jul 24, 2010
736
862
Carmel, California
Samsung is plainly a criminal enterprise , flaunting laws around the world. They have built a business on copying their competitors, bribing officials, paying shills , analysts and ” journalists” and delaying and/or ignoring legal findings .

Hopefully, the weight of their crimes has become so heavy they will sink.
 

Dulcimer

macrumors 6502a
Nov 20, 2012
917
876
Yea and so are engineers and retail and management and Chinese assembly line workers. What's your point?

I'm simply musing about how all this litigation benefits no one other than the lawyers, who are all probably quite happy with the way things are unravelling.

Just a passing comment.
 

Klae17

macrumors 65816
Jul 15, 2011
1,239
1,652
I'm simply musing about how all this litigation benefits no one other than the lawyers, who are all probably quite happy with the way things are unravelling.

Just a passing comment.

They aren't commission though, just doing their job. So I'm happy that they are feeding their families too.
 

everything-i

macrumors 6502a
Jun 20, 2012
827
2
London, UK
You could only see this as an honest error if Samsung and their lawyers had come clean straight away after realising their error. Instead a senior exec taunted Nokia with the confidential patent knowledge, which he shouldn't even have had and yet which he knew off by heart.

Their lack of co-operation since suggests real lack of understanding of their "mistake" and a lack of contrition.

Will be interested to see what sanctions are applied. A rather nice irony that the case is due to be heard on the same day as the iPad event!

Very good points, they appear to not even think they are doing anything wrong here and actually taunted one of the parties involved, how arrogant is that.
 

Ivan0310

macrumors member
Mar 1, 2011
97
72
Dallas, TX
Unlikely

Samsung is rotten at its core. I'll never buy another Samsung product again

Good luck with that. They make so many components for all manner of electronic devices. iPhones for now still include a Samsung manufactured SoC. At least a large portion do. I'm sure I'm forgetting some other component in iPhones that they likely produce.
 

sailmac

macrumors 6502
Jan 15, 2008
333
87
Footnote 1 (page 9):

"Samsung's exhibits to its motions for relief show that Quinn Emanuel did in fact improperly disclose information about the other Apple licenses to Samsung's employees."

Egregious, and now even harder to dodge.
 

Moccasin

macrumors 65816
Mar 21, 2011
1,005
220
Newcastle, UK
Very good points, they appear to not even think they are doing anything wrong here and actually taunted one of the parties involved, how arrogant is that.

I actually skim read the judgement and I think the legal language somewhat hides the strong feelings of the judges. I think Samsung and their lawyers are in big trouble here and - as pointed out - they have made the situation worse since Judge Koh has said in writing that they have done something wrong. If they're not worried by now, they damn well should be!

In UK they would probably be held as being in contempt of court.
 

Moccasin

macrumors 65816
Mar 21, 2011
1,005
220
Newcastle, UK
The other point, I think, is that Samsung can't just blame their lawyers. The lawyers made an error but Samsung are complicit in not being honest and reporting it immediately and - it seems- in continuing to use the information for their own ends even after it was known about. They can't even show that they took steps to limit the propagation of the information through the company.

What sanctions do the courts have? A fine? Re-running affected court cases? Banning products? Cancelling licensing agreements?
 

samcraig

macrumors P6
Jun 22, 2009
16,779
41,982
USA
Before anyone blames Samsung for trying to get away with these motions - try and remember that THAT'S what lawyers are paid to do. I am not saying it's right or just. I am saying that any company - Apple or Samsung alike - would be filing whatever delays/motions/etc they could to work in their favor. It's not "sleazy" of any one company any more than it's "sleazy" for one company to take advantage of tax loopholes. This is how the process (whether we like it or not) works.
 

ValSalva

macrumors 68040
Jun 26, 2009
3,783
259
Burpelson AFB
I guess what goes around, comes around. Unfortunately Samsung will probably not learn anything from this.

It's become part of their corporate culture. Cheating on benchmarks, copying, paying for positive commenters on message boards. That's who they are.
 

Moccasin

macrumors 65816
Mar 21, 2011
1,005
220
Newcastle, UK
Before anyone blames Samsung for trying to get away with these motions - try and remember that THAT'S what lawyers are paid to do. I am not saying it's right or just. I am saying that any company - Apple or Samsung alike - would be filing whatever delays/motions/etc they could to work in their favor. It's not "sleazy" of any one company any more than it's "sleazy" for one company to take advantage of tax loopholes. This is how the process (whether we like it or not) works.

Yes of course Samsung and their lawyers are trying to do what they can to avoid censure. I have no issue with that. I do however have issue with how Samsung used the information they had. They didn't tell their lawyers they'd made a mistake and take steps to remove all information. They didn't inform the courts of the error. They didn't take steps to limit the spread of the information through the company. That is what any law-abiding company would do to minimise the damage.
 

bbeagle

macrumors 68040
Oct 19, 2010
3,542
2,982
Buffalo, NY
Before anyone blames Samsung for trying to get away with these motions - try and remember that THAT'S what lawyers are paid to do. I am not saying it's right or just. I am saying that any company - Apple or Samsung alike - would be filing whatever delays/motions/etc they could to work in their favor. It's not "sleazy" of any one company any more than it's "sleazy" for one company to take advantage of tax loopholes. This is how the process (whether we like it or not) works.

Nobody is saying that Samsung or it's lawyers are "sleazy" for filing delays/motions.

Everyone is saying that the Samsung executives are sleazy for reading the confidential papers they were legally obligated not to read. And the lawyers were sleazy in allowing this to happen.
 

Makosuke

macrumors 604
Aug 15, 2001
6,682
1,268
The Cool Part of CA, USA
You could only see this as an honest error if Samsung and their lawyers had come clean straight away after realising their error. Instead a senior exec taunted Nokia with the confidential patent knowledge, which he shouldn't even have had and yet which he knew off by heart.

Their lack of co-operation since suggests real lack of understanding of their "mistake" and a lack of contrition.
I think it goes well beyond simple lack of understanding--if the reports of what was said in the meeting with Nokia are even half true, the Samsung executive was fully aware of the illegality of what he was doing, and was openly flaunting the law.

I would say that it's hard to believe that an executive at a major global company would be so flagrant in his disregard of laws, but there is certainly precedent--the head of the company should literally be in jail. He was convicted of financial shenanigans and the prosecutors requested a 7 year sentence, but the court knocked it down to a 3 year suspended sentence, which was then pardoned by the president so he could help out with the Olympics, and it wasn't long before he was running the company again.

If the original sentence had been handed down, he'd be in prison for at least another year and a half.

It may or may not be a coincidence that Samsung was also raided around the same time as that case related to a slush fund used to bribe government officials. And it's almost certainly not a coincidence that they account for nearly 20% of South Korea's GDP--when you get a personal pardon from the president of South Korea, you obviously have friends in very high places.

Point being, the person running the company is literally a convicted criminal, and one who not only served no time for the crime he committed, but would still be in jail if he'd been sentenced appropriately. That's pretty strong evidence for deep-rooted corruption in the company's executive culture.

I guess what goes around, comes around. Unfortunately Samsung will probably not learn anything from this.
Given the slap on the wrist their chairman received when caught red-handed and convicted, it certainly doesn't seem likely that they'll learn anything this time around, either, unless the penalties are staggering.
 
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