San Francisco Luxury High Rise Sinking

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by Huntn, Aug 2, 2016.

  1. Huntn macrumors P6

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #1
    Holy Crap!! Word has it that they did not run the foundation down to the bedrock. What an embarrassment. Is this a crisis?

    SF Landmark, Luxury High-Rise Millennium Tower Is Sinking Fast

    [​IMG]

    August 1, 2016 9:10 AM
    SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS) — The Millennium Tower, one of the city’s most prestigious addresses, is sinking fast.

    The luxury high-rise is home to celebrities like Joe Montana and Hunter Pence. Condominiums in the 58-story building have price tags as high as $10 million.

    According to KCBS and Chronicle Insider Phil Matier, an engineering report says that the 58-story, $350 million luxury high rise has sunk by 16 inches since its completion in 2009. It’s also tilted by two inches to the northwest.
     
  2. iLog.Genius macrumors 601

    iLog.Genius

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #2
    Clearly not an expert in structural engineering/architecture but when something like this happens, is there any way to remedy the fault?
     
  3. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
  4. chown33, Aug 2, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016

    chown33 macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    Location:
    Sailing beyond the sunset
    #4
    These may help a little. With great power comes great responsibility:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Zenithal macrumors 603

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #5
    I seem to recall reading something in the 90s about a big building in NYC doing the same or was it Chicago. Anyway, California has experienced a sinking for the last hundred years. Even bedrock has sunk.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/damage-from-sinking-land-costing-california-billions/

    It is not much of a problem down here, South, but more a problem up north. Wine country, to my knowledge, isn't affected.
     
  6. Tinmania macrumors 68040

    Tinmania

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Location:
    Aridzona
    #6
    I'm not either but maybe it will stop when it hits bedrock. That said, by then it might be better known as the Leaning Tower of Frisco.



    Mike
     
  7. Huntn, Aug 2, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2016

    Huntn thread starter macrumors P6

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #7
    My guess as a non-engineer is that it might be correctable if they spend a boat load of money on driving down support to the bedrock if there is a technical capability. For all the work that was done on the Leaning Tower of Pisa, it is teeny in comparison, maybe 12 stories with a small foot print.
     
  8. JamesMike macrumors 603

    JamesMike

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2014
    Location:
    Oregon
  9. rhett7660 macrumors G4

    rhett7660

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2008
    Location:
    Sunny, Southern California
    #9
    From msn.com this morning:


    Yikes!
     
  10. Apple fanboy macrumors Penryn

    Apple fanboy

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Location:
    Behind the Lens, UK
    #10
    Apparently the builders they used came in cheapest. Although they had previously worked in Pizza.
    image.jpg

    In all seriousness I'd have some serious safety concerns.
     
  11. Huntn thread starter macrumors P6

    Huntn

    Joined:
    May 5, 2008
    Location:
    The Misty Mountains
    #11
    I think it's the same deal for Pisa, it was built on dirt, not on a solid foundation. I imagine this is a disaster for the buildings owners and financiers.
     
  12. Apple fanboy macrumors Penryn

    Apple fanboy

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2012
    Location:
    Behind the Lens, UK
    #12
    I should imagine it worked out well for Pisa in the long run!
    I have actually been up that tower. It feels weird.
    It's built on sand basically. It was under pinned by concrete some years ago to stop it moving any further.
     
  13. OLDCODGER macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2011
    Location:
    Lucky Country
    #13
    Is this what's known as "going down in the world"?
     
  14. Khalanad75 macrumors 6502

    Khalanad75

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2015
    Location:
    land of confusion
    #14
    I wonder how that changes things up when it comes to earthquakes. I would imagine it will be more prone to topple.
     
  15. mobilehaathi macrumors G3

    mobilehaathi

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Location:
    The Anthropocene
    #15
    Ouch. Cutting corners to 'save money' comes back to bite you in the ***. Who knew!?
     
  16. ThisBougieLife macrumors 68000

    ThisBougieLife

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2016
    Location:
    SF Bay Area, California
    #16
    Yeah, let's cut corners in San Francisco, America's most expensive city, and then charge a person $5000 a month to live in this place. *facepalm*
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #17
    Boy am I glad I'm not that structural engineer. Or their insurer. Although it could be the geotechnical engineer's mess-up too, if the structural engineer was told the soil friction was higher than it is. Guess I'll know if any big players around here go belly-up over this.

    Most things are fixable, given enough money. But the logistics of this seem... daunting. I'd want to go through the existing foundation to add deep piles, but how you get a drill rig into a basement is just one question of many I'd have.

    Yeesh...
     
  18. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Boston
    #18
    Thank god for insurance.

    Boston doesn't have a lot of bedrock, making building skyscrapers difficult, which is why we have so few. Back Bay buildings are beginning to sink and tilt considering not too long ago the area was a swamp that was filled in.
     
  19. Roller macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    #19
    I'm sure there are many faults in the vicinity.

    I just looked at the Google Street View of the tower from June 2016. I'd expect some external indication after 16" of sinking, but I didn't see anything. The article says "so far the only signs have been cracks in the garage and an ongoing problem with the sidewalk." It also says that the building is in an area of mud fill and that the pilings go down into "dense sand," not exactly comforting during the next earthquake.
     
  20. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #20
    It's likely got a mat foundation, where the entire footprint of the building is a solid mass of rebar and concrete, acting to diffuse the point loads of the columns above and the piles below. Settlement issues tend towards the entire thing moving together, so less racking (visible cracking), more sinking and leaning.

    The real problems right now I bet revolve around access and utilities. I can't imagine the driveways still function as designed if there's 16" of settlement. Required accessible routes are in immediate jeopardy. Draining water away from the building exterior gets harder. At some point it will surpass the capacity of the water, gas storm drain, and sewer lines to flex. The fire department is probably keeping a close eye on the situation...
     
  21. Roller macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    #21
    If the entire building is sinking as a unit, wouldn't there be a positional change with respect to surrounding structures (sidewalks, driveways, and so on)? 16" seems like a lot to me, even if it occurred gradually, so I'd imagine there would be more visible evidence at street level.
     
  22. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #22
    Ok, so its sinking, but what wasn't mentioned is that SF is in an earthquake zone. With it slowing tilting and sinking, I would think its may be even more dangerous if an earthquake struck
     
  23. tobefirst macrumors 68040

    tobefirst

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2005
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    #23
    I bet owners are dreading that special assessment. Yikes. (;
     
  24. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Location:
    Boston
    #24
    Couple that with the falling values, i.e., who wants to buy a condo in a building that is sinking, and you have some very nervous and unhappy owners.
     
  25. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2003
    Location:
    Colly-fornia
    #25
    Yes. Driveways, walkways, utility lines. 16" is a huge amount of settlement.
     

Share This Page