San Francisco to Block Most Municipal Mac Purchases Following Apple's EPEAT Withdrawal

[AidenShaw]

That's insane.

Not really - go to CDW.COM and look at replacement laptop battery prices. I just spent $160 on a Lenovo battery - that I can replace in a few seconds.

Please explain the advantages of using torx screws over Phillips heads? Ask yourself why Apple does this.

Phillips screws were designed to "cam out" (the bit slips out of the screw). Torx screws are designed to keep the bit in the screw. In other words, Phillips is meant to slip and fail.

(Apple doesn't use torx - but I'm answering the question.)

SFO is going to be spending/wasting lot of $$$ on writing a ton of waivers...

"SFO" is an airport, and an airport that's not even in San Francisco.

And (the city and county of) San Francisco won't be working on a ton of waivers - a tiny percentage of the work force uses Apples, and probably only a small percentage of that tiny percentage is using Apple-only software so that they'd have a chance of the waiver being approved.

The rest won't tilt at the windmill - too much effort, too little gain.

Simple. Phillips heads SUCK ASS!

By design.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phillips_screw#Phillips

 

[Goldenbear]

I never understood why Apple took all their products off the certification, old and new, when the only product that didn't make it was the new Retina MacBook Pro. Other Macs and MacBooks qualified just fine, so why not keep those sales to governments and schools going and to just exclude the Retina MacBook? It doesn't make any sense.

I agree it's a bit curious, but they're moving the rest of their laptop lineup in the same direction, so it'll be a moot point sooner or later.

My cynical side thinks that if Apple advertised that some of their computers are certified and others aren't, eventually some low-life would file a class action lawsuit claiming that Apple's being unclear which computers are certified. Typical shakedown by scumbags that happens to all large companies in this country.

I'm sure Apple thought through the potential fallout from this decision and decided it was worth it. They simply haven't communicated the reasoning, which is typical of their secretive nature.

 

[RedCroissant]

Look before you speak....

• http://www8.hp.com/us/en/hp-information/environment/recycling-reuse.html
• http://content.dell.com/us/en/corp/dell-environment-recycling
• http://campuslife.asus.com/index/5284/how-to-recycle-your-asus-pc/
• http://www.vizio.com/environment/
• http://www.lenovo.com/social_responsibility/us/en/product_recycling_program.html

Why do so many Apple fans assume that Apple is better than other companies, without taking a few seconds to check facts?

[rhetorical question - we know the answer]

well, I did look before I spoke and knew what I was talking about. If you had quoted me properly...

"My guess is that there will be a newer and updated recyclability standard that will see Apple taking control of recycling its own products. Who better to take apart and recycle products that the company itself designed and assembled? Would anyone see Dell, HP, Vizio, or any of the other companies doing this?"

I know that Dell and the other companies recycle their equipment along with other manufacturer's (just as Apple does), but I was stating that Apple would completely control the recycling of their own products(which those other companies you linked do are not doing). You should have also been able to see that I was making a guess as to what might happen in the future. Try not to cherry pick simply because it fits in with your assumptions.

 

[rendevouspoo]

Not really - go to CDW.COM and look at replacement laptop battery prices. I just spent $160 on a Lenovo battery - that I can replace in a few seconds.

You should consider using newegg. After comparing a couple batteries to CDW, newegg ran about 50 dollars cheaper. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...isNodeId=1&Description=lenovo+battery&x=0&y=0

 

[faroZ06]

Simple. Phillips heads SUCK ****!

Ever strip one trying to undo a screw? I've stripped several. In fact, since most phillips screws are cheap, soft ones, they'll strip a little bit each time you unfasten it, no matter how careful you are.

Torx are much less likely to strip, and they are pretty much standard in cars.

That is the most annoying thing ever. Want to take something apart? Oh look, ONE @#$%ING SCREW IS STRIPPED! Now I can't take it apart.

 

[RedCroissant]

San Francisco is not forcing anyone to adhere to a standard their products do not meet. Where do people keep coming up with this stuff ? EPEAT is optional, Apple chose to not certify their products for it anymore, San Francisco requires it for purchases.

No one is forced to do anything. San Francisco chose their policy, Apple chose theirs, EPEAT chose what their standard covers. Everyone gets to live with the consequences of these choices.

I know that no one is forced to do anything, and the beginning of my post says that it should not be a crime or a problem when Apple chose not to certify its products because they knew they would not meet the requirements.

But when you consider the statement..."We are disappointed that Apple chose to withdraw from EPEAT," said Melanie Nutter, director of San Francisco's Department of Environment, "and we hope that the city saying it will not buy Apple products will make Apple reconsider its participation."

It's her quote that shows her intent is to make this statement to force(although passively) Apple to reconsider its participation which in turn also implies their hope that Apple reconsiders their designs that necessitated the withdrawal from the EPEAT standard.

 

[chatin]

$200 battery fiasco an enviro hazard

The new retina MBP does not deserve to qualify as green. I called the design a disposable on launch day. When the computer goes out of AppleCare few will want to fix the battery at $200.

This Macbook Pro simply does not make sense for the environment.

 

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
Not really - go to CDW.COM and look at replacement laptop battery prices. I just spent $160 on a Lenovo battery - that I can replace in a few seconds.

You should consider using newegg. After comparing a couple batteries to CDW, newegg ran about 50 dollars cheaper. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...isNodeId=1&Description=lenovo+battery&x=0&y=0

Newegg was $161 for the same battery!

I agree, though, that Newegg usually has much better prices for many things. Our corporate purchasing is tied to CDW, and the bean counters have determined that overall CDW is a better deal. And it's dead easy - the CDW catalog is linked from our intranet home page, just click-click and two days later it's in your office.

(I use Newegg for most personal purchases...)

 

[samcraig]

It's her quote that shows her intent is to make this statement to force(although passively) Apple to reconsider its participation which in turn also implies their hope that Apple reconsiders their designs that necessitated the withdrawal from the EPEAT standard.

What else do you expect the "Director of San Francisco's Department of Environment" to say? And if anything - it shows that they desire to be able to purchase Apple computers within their organization - but their hands are tied."

In other words - people will see what they want to see in the statement. You really don't know what her intent was by the statement alone.

 

[KnightWRX]

I know that no one is forced to do anything, and the beginning of my post says that it should not be a crime or a problem when Apple chose not to certify its products because they knew they would not meet the requirements.

It's not a crime or a problem either. So I guess your wish is granted by status quo.

But when you consider the statement..."We are disappointed that Apple chose to withdraw from EPEAT," said Melanie Nutter, director of San Francisco's Department of Environment, "and we hope that the city saying it will not buy Apple products will make Apple reconsider its participation."

It's her quote that shows her intent is to make this statement to force(although passively) Apple to reconsider its participation which in turn also implies their hope that Apple reconsiders their designs that necessitated the withdrawal from the EPEAT standard.

She's not forcing Apple to do anything, she's disappointed and hopes they reconsider, but she's not saying Apple is doing anything wrong. Heck, like a ton of people were disappointed and hoping Apple would reconsider building a mid-tower with consumer level parts. No one forced Apple to do it.

----------

And if anything - it shows that they desire to be able to purchase Apple computers within their organization - but their hands are tied."

That's the vibe I'm getting from the quote also. That she's actually disappointed and really likes Apple computers enough that she hopes that Apple reconsiders so that the city can start purchases again.

Wouldn't you be disappointed if Apple dropped support for a requirement in your business, forcing to move away from them ? Wouldn't you hope they'd reconsider ? Heck yeah I would. I like using OS X.

 

[Gasu E.]

Given how sensitive a topic the environment is nowadays, Apple no doubt has valid reasons, but withdrawing support for EPEAT without some type of public PR answer is only going to lead to the story quickly developing a negative spin. If they don't like EPEAT because it limits design flexibility, but they remain committed to the environment, they could try to demonstrate that their products offer comparable or better environmental benefits to the EPEAT program even if they don't follow the EPEAT standards by the letter.

I agree. This was very poorly handled.

 

[AidenShaw]

If you had quoted me properly...

"My guess is that there will be a newer and updated recyclability standard that will see Apple taking control of recycling its own products."

Your "guess" is that "there will be" an Apple-sponsored recycling standard?

LOL.

Will that "Apple recycling center" be nearby, or will fuel have to be wasted to ship Apples back to China for cheap dissassembly? (With EPEAT guidelines, local independent recyclers can separate the components.)

The "only Apple can recycle an Apple" argument is a huge step backwards - the EPEAT standards favor simple, local recyclers.

I just bought a replacement battery for a big APC UPS. The battery came with "free recycling" - I entered the URL on the webpage and my zip code, and it printed out a pre-paid UPS label to send it to a town about 50 km away.

I give it about six weeks before Apple recertifies the existing models (the pre-rMBP ones that had been certified) with EPEAT and promises to modify the rMBP to meet the standards.

 

[GS17]

Yes, 1-2% of SF computers are Apple. According to the article, that's 500-700 computers. A migration of that size to a new platform will certainly be painful. Granted, not as painful as all of SF's computers, but still painful to the teams that need to deal with it.

You saying that someone else's comment makes no sense is what actually makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense, where did you read that they were throwing away those 500-700 macs? They don't need to replace them because this situation applies to new purchases, they can progressively replace them when the time comes. Also I don't think there are entire teams that are Mac only based (maybe a couple but they still can use tha macs they have now), I'm sure they're spread across multiple offices and people will deal with the change, as for IT is usually easier to support less platforms than multiple.

 

[AidenShaw]

It makes perfect sense, where did you read that they were throwing away those 500-700 macs?

[voice of IT "support" person]

"Your Apple Book was infected with the Flashback virus, the only way that we could be sure to clean it was to re-imagine your laptop.

Here's your new ThinkPad."



ps: Our corporate IT group is reformatting and reimaging all of the Apple laptops that caught the Flashback malware. It's the only way to be certain that they're clean.

 

[RedCroissant]

Your "guess" is that "there will be" an Apple-sponsored recycling standard?

LOL.

Will that "Apple recycling center" be nearby, or will fuel have to be wasted to ship Apples back to China for cheap dissassembly? (With EPEAT guidelines, local independent recyclers can separate the components.)

The "only Apple can recycle an Apple" argument is a huge step backwards - the EPEAT standards favor simple, local recyclers.

I just bought a replacement battery for a big APC UPS. The battery came with "free recycling" - I entered the URL on the webpage and my zip code, and it printed out a pre-paid UPS label to send it to a town about 50 km away.

I give it about six weeks before Apple recertifies the existing models (the pre-rMBP ones that had been certified) with EPEAT and promises to modify the rMBP to meet the standards.

Ah…no. My guess is not that there will be an Apple-sponsored recycling standard. My guess is that due to the fact that they are no longer participating in the EPEAT program, that they will have to recycle their own products.

And maybe there will be an "Apple recycling center" but perhaps Apple would simply continue to utilize their retail stores and other authorized dealers/resellers/service providers to facilitate a recycling program that would still work with local recycling centers and programs.

But of course, I guess shipping it back to China would be way easier....

Essentially, the EPEAT standard is mostly irrelevant(except for the impact of sales with government organizations) since they can take care of their own products within their existing extensive network of service providers and retailers.

 

[MacinDoc]

Seems to be a logical consequence of Apple's withdrawal from certification, since for SF, the certification is required.

And in this case, I think Apple is getting what it deserves. And it will add up, far beyond the few hundred machines being used by the city of SF. Apple will also lose the benefits of having a toehold for its ecosystem in various government offices.

I wonder if Apple is underestimating the significance of loss of government contracts and those losses that may stem from consumer dissatisfaction with Apple's decision to withdraw from EPEAT.

 

[AidenShaw]

And maybe there will be an "Apple recycling center" but perhaps Apple would simply continue to utilize their retail stores and other authorized dealers/resellers/service providers to facilitate a recycling program that would still work with local recycling centers and programs.

But of course, I guess shipping it back to China would be way easier....

Even in the US, most people live far from an Apple retail store.

Withdrawing from EPEAT is a really bone-headed move. Tim Cook's Apple seems to point the gun at their own feet before pulling the trigger.

Even Cupertino's home town daily newspaper says:

Apple's withdrawal from 'green' certification program surprises purchasers

By Dana Hull and John Boudreau
Staff writers
mercurynews.com

After establishing itself as an environmental leader among consumer electronics companies, Apple's (AAPL) abrupt withdrawal from a prominent "green" product registry has set off a furor in the blogosphere and could modestly cut into the company's computer sales.

Apple's decision may be tied to the design of the new MacBook Pros, which have batteries glued into the case and can't be disassembled for recycling -- a violation of the green certification standards of EPEAT, a nonprofit product rating group backed by many manufacturers and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

"I've had some conversations, and Apple has said that their design direction is not compatible with EPEAT standards," the group's CEO, Robert Frisbee, said in an interview Monday. "It's kind of odd since they've helped design" the standards.

Greenpeace spokesman Casey Harrell said Apple "has pitted design against the environment -- and chosen design. They're making a big bet that people don't care, but recycling is a big issue."
...

Not all publicity is good publicity.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Seems to be a logical consequence of Apple's withdrawal from certification, since for SF, the certification is required.

And in this case, I think Apple is getting what it deserves. And it will add up, far beyond the few hundred machines being used by the city of SF. Apple will also lose the benefits of having a toehold for its ecosystem in various government offices.

I wonder if Apple is underestimating the significance of loss of government contracts and those losses that may stem from consumer dissatisfaction with Apple's decision to withdraw from EPEAT.

I honestly wonder if it would have any effect at all on consumers even if they lose all government contracts and get negative press about it. They'll come up with some explanation and everyone will be satisfied. After all, it's Apple and their customers feel they can do no wrong. Look at all the excuses being made in this thread. If it were any other tech company there would be a lynch mob forming on this forum.

 

[AidenShaw]

I honestly wonder if it would have any effect at all on consumers even if they lose all government contracts and get negative press about it. They'll come up with some explanation and everyone will be satisfied. After all, it's Apple and their customers feel they can do no wrong. Look at all the excuses being made in this thread. If it were any other tech company there would be a lynch mob forming on this forum.

The "death by a thousand cuts" may be Apple's undoing. Stories like this (and "antennagate" and "Foxconn suicides" and...) do get remembered, and sooner or later even many of the fans will start to question what Cupertino is doing.

This EPEAT episode, though, is somewhat special. Apple used to brag about its EPEAT ratings and feature them prominently in marketing materials.

Now, though - as Emily L. said "never mind".

Even the sheep notice hyprocrisy of that level.

 

[AppleScruff1]

The "death by a thousand cuts" may be Apple's undoing. Stories like this (and "antennagate" and "Foxconn suicides" and...) do get remembered, and sooner or later even many of the fans will start to question what Cupertino is doing.

This EPEAT episode, though, is somewhat special. Apple used to brag about its EPEAT ratings and feature them prominently in marketing materials.

Now, though - as Emily L. said "never mind".

Even the sheep notice hyprocrisy of that level.

Hopefully you're correct, but I'm reading a lot of excuses in this thread.

 

[RedCroissant]

Even in the US, most people live far from an Apple retail store.

Withdrawing from EPEAT is a really bone-headed move. Tim Cook's Apple seems to point the gun at their own feet before pulling the trigger.

Even Cupertino's home town daily newspaper says:



Not all publicity is good publicity.

I agree that withdrawing from EPEAT might not have been the best move, but if it simply participation in a program that helps to publicize their environmental responsibility that they are still able to maintain without that affiliation, then what really changes? Sure, the initial perception might be bad, but if their products are still as highly recyclable as they have been, then having the "EPEAT stamp of approval" is redundant and unnecessary.

And I know there are many people that live far from Apple retail stores, but Apple has business connections with numerous electronics retailers, resellers, and service providers in addition to those retail stores.

And perhaps this move to remove themselves from the EPEAT program was a preemptive move before BEING removed and therefore receiving even worse publicity for that.

 

[AidenShaw]

I agree that withdrawing from EPEAT might not have been the best move, but if it simply participation in a program that helps to publicize their environmental responsibility that they are still able to maintain without that affiliation, then what really changes?

For example, referring to the topic of this article, the City and County of San Franciso requires EPEAT certification for computer purchases.

Customer. Gone.

And where America's favorite city goes, others may follow.

 

[samcraig]

For example, referring to the topic of this article, the City and County of San Franciso requires EPEAT certification for computer purchases.

Customer. Gone.

To further - Apple could advocate how secure iOS is - but if it doesn't meat HIPAA, or other compliance requirements - it doesn't matter how secure it is - organizations that have requirements won't buy the product either.

 

[AidenShaw]

To further - Apple could advocate how secure iOS is - but if it doesn't meat HIPAA, or other compliance requirements - it doesn't matter how secure it is - organizations that have requirements won't buy the product either.

But the fans will simply say "HIPAA is idiots"....

 

[samcraig]

But the fans will simply say "HIPAA is idiots"....

Or "it's not a big deal - because they were never HIPAA compliant so they are losing anything"