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And the Playstation was a copy of the NES, and the NES was a copy of the Atari 2600, and the 2600 was a copy of the Fairchild Channel F.

Do you not see how the whole who copied who argument is tired and pointless?

It's not because this type of absurd reduction, leads to the conclusion that no one innovates anything. Which is why we are still in the stone age.
 
It's not because this type of absurd reduction, leads to the conclusion that no one innovates anything. Which is why we are still in the stone age.

Ogg invent wheel. Ogg own patent to round mechanism that roll smoothly when force applied. Application of 4 of Ogg wheel to balance large load copy capacity across large surface is like stealing from Ogg. OGG SAY YOU ANSWER TO LAWYER!
 
Ogg invent wheel. Ogg own patent to round mechanism that roll smoothly when force applied. Application of 4 of Ogg wheel to balance large load copy capacity across large surface is like stealing from Ogg. OGG SAY YOU ANSWER TO LAWYER!

Ogg has nothing to do with this. I'm not making an argument either for or against patents here.
 
He was the guy who lead the teams that pulled most of Microsofts services online. Think of him as the father of Azure.

OK so he is responsible for Office365? Cloud integration into Office2013?
Microsoft is doomed.

Office365 is horrible. We tried it at our work and then abandoned it as too buggy, unstable, and unreliable to ever trust. YMMV but for us it an absolute and utter failure.

As far as Office2013 is concerned, the cloud is tied into it so far we simply cannot use it. We just will not trust our confidential and private documents to storage outside our walls. We played with a couple of copies and then laid in a pile of Office2010 while they were still available. The difficulty in turning cloud storage off made is skip that version.

And THIS was the guy responsible for those two fiascoes?
I'll say it again. Microsoft is doomed.
 
I'm sure more hands on from Gates couldn't hurt M$ but really....don't you think if he had any grand ideas or solutions he would have presented them by now?
 
He's actually very much a "product guy", just not a product that you see on a daily basis. He's basically the father of the xbox backend, as well as the driving force behind one of the main competitors for amazon cloud services. No, he didn't invent an iPod, but he's responsible for an entire division within Microsoft.
Well yes, everything is a product and everything is a service. But I mean hardware products and web services. The Xbox service is tied to Xbox hardware and that is how it comes in your house. In opposite to a Google service, which isn't bound to specific hardware or operation system. Google desperately wants to create its own platform with Chrome OS and (vanilla) Android, but they aren't held back by the failure of both.

Whereas Microsoft like Apple is now an integrated hardware, software and services company. When you've developed exceptional qualities in one of those fields, than it helps to sell the whole bundle. But if your hardware product is at best average, than the failure of the Surface tablets and Nokia phones become a failure of the whole OS and all its integrated services. Integrated just means success or failure, we are in it together.

So the "product guy" needs to get excited about everything down to the unboxing experience. Satya Nadella is more of a "services guy" and that is a backend technology, which should be totally transparent to the user anyway. No one at the top of Microsoft is focused on improving the user experience and therefore they will lose the end-user and fall back on enterprise customers, who generally care less about the joy of there employees.
What Microsoft needs are more Zune's, but with a better marketing team :p
They always blame it on the marketing team, never on the merits of the product itself. :rolleyes:
 
So, we've traded one MS career-lifer at the helm for another, and brought back the man that was great at one thing and one thing only - managing the business from a monopolistic and 'steal, copy and buy the competition' perspective when the world is so much different now than it was then when 'buy, copy and steal' worked so well, and the monopoly it ran meant something?? Can't see this is a good thing for MS, but can't say I'm surprised either. I haven't expected anything great from MS for a long time (and they just keep delivering on that expectation), and this non-change doesn't give me any cause to think any differently. Would be fun to be surprised, though, by them.
 
Ogg invented the wheel. He has everything to do with everything ever.

Ergo, Ogg invented the Pentium 4. That's the absurdity of this line of thinking. ;)

Never mind, the reason MS went after the gaming systems was probably to prevent losing the PC based gaming market to consoles, if that were to happen at least they had a console of their own.
 
You should read the news again: Gates is stepping down as Chairman, but at the same time he will spend MORE TIME at Microsoft as TECHNOLOGY ADVISER.

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Microsoft has a Mac division. And a CEO change at Microsoft is certainly more newsworthy than a new Angry Birds release for iOS...

One big fat thumbs up for seeing the link where others see rivalry only and the opportunity for a snide remark.

Glassed Silver:mac
 
Press <Ctrl><Alt><Delete> to reboot.

your next move?

hShRY.png
 
This.

Although there is always the chance that mr. Nadella has a dormant surprise vision that he has kept quiet until now.

Not to worry, if he does, the board will beat it out of him.

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I wouldn't say they don't cultivate the type of mindset required to be truly innovative, because they do...to a point. Their R&D division is among the best in the industry, and at any given moment, they're probably working on 30 world changing concepts and ideas that would collectively melt our brains were we to see them in action.

But there's a disconnect between their research and executive branches that keeps us all from seeing these great ideas in action in a timely manner. Moreso than any other company, they're well prepared for the future, but they tend to play it safe and let everyone else dip their toes into a brand new market before committing to it themselves.

I'd go into more detail, but I'm running short on time here. I'll agree with you that it is kinda tragic. They have the means and the people to potentially be a better Apple than Apple, but their tendency to play it safe gives everyone the impression that they're more the workhorse of the industry rather than one of the big movers and shakers.

So why don't we see these world-changing ideas in action? I don't even have to question whether they exist, since if they do, they have remained utterly invisible.
 
Ergo, Ogg invented the Pentium 4. That's the absurdity of this line of thinking. ;)

It's got wheels in it, don't it? What do you think the hamster runs in? :mad:

Never mind, the reason MS went after the gaming systems was probably to prevent losing the PC based gaming market to consoles, if that were to happen at least they had a console of their own.

That, and as their biggest play for their MS in the living room initiative they've been working on since at least 2001.
 
Everyones! The Xbox is a copy of Sonys PlayStation, its Kinect sensor was just to counter Nintendos WiiMote and Xbox Live wants to be Netflix. Virtually everything Microsoft does, down to the smallest product feature, can be traced back to some other company having success with something and Microsoft wanting to get in on that market. Some program called WordPerfect is becoming famous, surely the next year version one of Microsoft Word. Its always been like that. Maybe Microsofts only original idea, without a proven concept to copy from, was the Tablet-PC and they couldn't make it work.

Xbox is not a copy of the PlayStation unless you wanna argue all consoles are copies of each other

The Kinect is a stationary TOF sensor, not an accelerometer based controller like the WiiMote

Xbox Live is not Netflix, it's a gaming/content delivery service. It was also released long before Netflix started streaming video

And reality is almost every major company nowadays is a second mover. Including Apple. Last original product they created was probably the Newton, which was promptly ripped off and capitalized on by Palm, the second mover. Since then, every product space they entered, they weren't even first to market.
 
Do you not see how the whole who copied who argument is tired and pointless? Everyone copies from everyone. What you need to understand is that everything is iterative. A line of small improvements upon a basic idea.
Well than everything is a copy and everything is an original idea. But to which degree and how big are those small improvements? Are there any? Look at this, does it provide any new functionality that wasn't already present in Google Maps? Compare it to Apple Maps. First its not a website but a native app. Its vector graphics are free rotatable and so smooth. And Flyover is not a direct copy of Street View.

Flyover is not just another name for the same thing from a different company. It is a different approach to solve the same problem, whereas Microsofts solution is the same approach to solve the same problem. And while Apple uses its maps service to increase hardware sales, Microsoft has invested billions to build its own ad-based search engine, just the way Google finances its free maps service. Microsoft wants to replace Google not compete with them.
 
Not so much mediocre IMHO. I'd use the word "conservative". Microsoft's conservative nature is due in part to its umbilical ties (and reliance) to the suit-and-tie corporate American culture.

Businesses (as corporate customers) do not always embrace the initial products of more maverick companies like Apple or Google. But they do find safety and assurance in the long-term, play-it-safe, plodding, and strategic modus operandi of a company like Microsoft.

Where Microsoft fails is when they try too hard to be some maverick-hipster company in the image of Google or Apple. It's just not in Microsoft's DNA.

I think you might be simply redefining the word mediocre to sound little less, well, mediocre. Microsoft has chosen to be dull, and that fact is inescapable. Granted this may appeal in some sense to some of their more risk-adverse corporate customers, but those are not their only customers, not by a long shot. The reality is they have made forays into consumer products, but always with limited success, or very deep investments that take a long time to recover. It isn't like all of these products were bad by any means, but it seems either Microsoft couldn't quite see them through, or figure out how to make them pay off in the short run.

A lot of my disappointment with Microsoft goes back to at least 1995. They had eleven years (!) to figure out how to transform Windows into an OS that was more visionary than the Mac, but they elected instead to make it into a lukewarm clone of the Mac. I don't get all pumped up about whether they "copied" the Mac, so much as I am astounded that they used their time and resources so poorly. And why? Because just good enough was good enough, and that's they way they think. I don't see that anything has changed at Microsoft since then.
 
Well than everything is a copy and everything is an original idea. But to which degree and how big are those small improvements? Are there any? Look at this, does it provide any new functionality that wasn't already present in Google Maps? Compare it to Apple Maps. First its not a website but a native app. Its vector graphics are free rotatable and so smooth. And Flyover is not a direct copy of Street View.

Flyover is not just another name for the same thing from a different company. It is a different approach to solve the same problem, whereas Microsofts solution is the same approach to solve the same problem. And while Apple uses its maps service to increase hardware sales, Microsoft has invested billions to build its own ad-based search engine, just the way Google finances its free maps service. Microsoft wants to replace Google not compete with them.

Klyover must be the most costly and useless feature currently on any map app.

Sorry but how many times do you need a such detailed bird view of a mayor city? Its useless for detail, its useless for navigating i frankly dont know any use for it besides it looks great to show off.
 
The big news (if it really is news) is that they chose a company insider. That, together with Gates becoming somewhat more involved with the company than he's been in a decade, tells us that fundamentally Microsoft does not see a need to alter their formula. So, the question is: does anyone outside of Microsoft agree?

I was hoping Microsoft would go outside for their new CEO, but it looks the board won't allow it. The board won't allow anything that might be nice (and might not). They are far too conservative for their own good.

He did?

What do ya know? Good people can come from bad companies.

Of course, Tim Cook actually left Compaq. This guy isn't leaving Microsoft.

This is actually very good for the industry...

Microsoft will be stronger and more innovative, hopefully Apple will be inspired by their now found competition to produce more innovative products as well...

Competition is good

Competition is good. This is not a new CEO that makes me think Microsoft will be competing.

This is a variation on the argument that slow is just Microsoft's way, and slow is good enough. The fact is, everybody wants their company to go screaming out of the gate with new products. Microsoft's culture doesn't cultivate the kind of innovative thinking required to come screaming out of a gate. They are more about plodding.

I've always thought that Microsoft was one of the world's corporate tragedies. They had (and even still do have) the world by the technological short and curlies, but they could never find a way to leverage that power beyond exploiting what they already do to the maximum degree. With all those resources they should be able to do truly great things, but they've always been satisfied (and rewarded) by mediocrity. One of the largest tech companies the world has ever known is hopelessly mediocre. Isn't that tragic? I think so.

It is absolutely tragic.

I wouldn't say they don't cultivate the type of mindset required to be truly innovative, because they do...to a point. Their R&D division is among the best in the industry, and at any given moment, they're probably working on 30 world changing concepts and ideas that would collectively melt our brains were we to see them in action.

But there's a disconnect between their research and executive branches that keeps us all from seeing these great ideas in action in a timely manner. Moreso than any other company, they're well prepared for the future, but they tend to play it safe and let everyone else dip their toes into a brand new market before committing to it themselves.

I'd go into more detail, but I'm running short on time here. I'll agree with you that it is kinda tragic. They have the means and the people to potentially be a better Apple than Apple, but their tendency to play it safe gives everyone the impression that they're more the workhorse of the industry rather than one of the big movers and shakers.

I've talked to Microsoft engineers on a few occasions and the impression I was left with was that Microsoft would be a fantastic company if the engineers were in charge. But their talents are wasted by a corporate culture that is unwilling to take even the smallest of risks, and has no interest in any product that won't fit into their existing business model.

So, we've traded one MS career-lifer at the helm for another, and brought back the man that was great at one thing and one thing only - managing the business from a monopolistic and 'steal, copy and buy the competition' perspective when the world is so much different now than it was then when 'buy, copy and steal' worked so well, and the monopoly it ran meant something?? Can't see this is a good thing for MS, but can't say I'm surprised either. I haven't expected anything great from MS for a long time (and they just keep delivering on that expectation), and this non-change doesn't give me any cause to think any differently. Would be fun to be surprised, though, by them.

Pretty much. I was hopeful Microsoft would finally become a player in emerging markets but this signals just more of the same tired formula, and the continued decline.
 
IBM has gone through many changes, since they started as an adding machine company. That's why they are doing well. Even though they haven't always moved quickly enough, they have adapted.

You have just illustrated the big difference between Apple and Microsoft. Nobody gives Apple permission to release products that drain them financially, then "maybe" start to makes some money. Apple is expected to release products that make a profit right off the blocks. So yes, Microsoft is having a hard time keeping themselves out front. This is what I am saying, in addition to this move not being a sign that they will position themselves any better.

Yeah, instead we know they're making a plethora of products that don't make money period with the case that it 'helps the ecosystem'.

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I was hoping Microsoft would go outside for their new CEO, but it looks the board won't allow it. The board won't allow anything that might be nice (and might not). They are far too conservative for their own good.



Of course, Tim Cook actually left Compaq. This guy isn't leaving Microsoft.



Competition is good. This is not a new CEO that makes me think Microsoft will be competing.



It is absolutely tragic.



I've talked to Microsoft engineers on a few occasions and the impression I was left with was that Microsoft would be a fantastic company if the engineers were in charge. But their talents are wasted by a corporate culture that is unwilling to take even the smallest of risks, and has no interest in any product that won't fit into their existing business model.



Pretty much. I was hopeful Microsoft would finally become a player in emerging markets but this signals just more of the same tired formula, and the continued decline.

Microsoft isn't a bad company, so o don't get your point.
 
And reality is almost every major company nowadays is a second mover. Including Apple. Last original product they created was probably the Newton, which was promptly ripped off and capitalized on by Palm, the second mover. Since then, every product space they entered, they weren't even first to market.
iPhone – first to market
iPad – first to market
iPod – not the first, but ...
iTunes – first to market
AppStore – first to market
Unibody MacBook – first to market
Magic Mouse – first to market
PowerNap – first to market
Retina Displays EVERYWHERE

I could go on and on. The Apple firsts are uncountable like the stars in the sky. Also Google products and services are generally firsts in their class. Microsame and Samesung on the other hand.

P.S. Of course now someone will rebuttal that smartphones and tablets have existed well before iPhone and iPad. They did not. If you think so, you don't understand these product categories.
 
Ballmer was awful. With their next CEO choice, the only way MS could go was up. Nadella looks like an improvement.

IMHO the entire MS/Apple situation is a little bit like Coke and Pepsi. I like to see Microsoft as a strong counter to Apple to keep Apple on its toes. Healthy competition helps drive innovation and keeps prices lower for consumers. Having a better CEO at the helm will help Microsoft.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of MS, but I do believe that competition is good, and I use Microsoft Office on all my Macs. Who knows, maybe Nadella can get them to work some more of the bugs out. :)

"We have to let go of this notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose." -- Steve Jobs
 
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