Scathing criticism of the AppleTV 4k (www.theverge.com)

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by Hanterdro, Sep 21, 2017.

  1. Hanterdro macrumors regular

    Hanterdro

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    #1
    - Apple TV don't switch between HDR, Dolby Vision and non HDR
    - LG 2016 OLED support only Dolby Vision with 30 FPS
    - Apple TV 4k will use as default 60 FPS HDR over 30fps Dolby Vision (because the Apple TV won't switch automatically mode)
    - The HDR processing of the Apple TV 4k seems currently very bad. That means HD content can look very bad on the new Apple TV (because AT4k does not switch modes...)
    - You can't use the image optimization of your receiver, because the AT4k sends always 4k HDR/Dolby Vision

    Source: https://www.theverge.com/2017/9/21/16341876/new-apple-tv-4k-review-2017
     
  2. ActionableMango macrumors G3

    ActionableMango

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    #2
    Aaaand that's my TV. :(
     
  3. Zorn macrumors 65816

    Zorn

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    #3
    Just to clarify, the LG 2016 OLEDs only support Dolby Vision at 30Hz, but they support HDR10 at 60Hz. The review simply states that the author feels Dolby Vision @ 30Hz looks better, but the new Apple TV defaults to the higher framerate regardless.
     
  4. Hanterdro thread starter macrumors regular

    Hanterdro

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    #4
    This is no "feeling" it's a fact :)
     
  5. Zorn macrumors 65816

    Zorn

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    #5
    I haven't done my own comparison so I won't argue it - but as with anything of what looks nicer, I'm sure some people may prefer the "smoother" higher frame rate, while others may prefer whatever benefits DV offers.
     
  6. loekf macrumors 6502a

    loekf

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    #6
    Bad design choices by Apple. Why would you make the HDR mode part of the display mode ? Should be content dependant.
     
  7. Cryates macrumors 68020

    Cryates

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    #7
    I hardly think the review was scathing. I think it pointed out some serious flaws, but still acknowledged the good points about it's potential.
     
  8. boltjames macrumors 601

    boltjames

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    #8
    That's funny, my no-charge smart feature of my Sony 4K HDR TV does this without blinking. It's not like Apple to make a mistake like this.
     
  9. HiRez macrumors 603

    HiRez

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    #9
    This is bad but seems like something that can be fixed in software, no? Sort of like the new Apple Watch auto-switching data connections. They'll probably fix this.
     
  10. cawgijoe macrumors newbie

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    #10
    I believe it will be fixed. I understand why they did it so that transitions would be seamless as opposed to hesitation when switching. Problem is not everything looks good. Would be nice if they provided a "Native" toggle button.
     
  11. Seb2k macrumors newbie

    Seb2k

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    #11
    Yep, I can definitely appreciate why they've taken this decision as it's hardly elegant when my Shield TV switches refresh rates.

    Hopefully they will see sense and offer us the choice buried in the settings somewhere.
     
  12. glhaynes macrumors member

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    #12
    Yeah, "scathing" isn't the word that comes to mind for a review that ends in "7.5". I do hope they fix some of these issues quickly with a software update.
     
  13. benji888 macrumors 68000

    benji888

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    #13
    Maybe. It was a design choice, but, I think they will find too many complaints.

    ONE THING most fail to mention, in that review he did show that you can select another mode, it just won't switch according to content, so you have to go into settings and do it manually...Dolby Vision content isn't plentiful yet, so, it's not like you'll need to change it all the time, and maybe they will change this in future software update.

    To be crystal clear on this, Dolby Vision at 30 FPS is a limitation of the LG 2016 OLED TV.

    Yeah, the ATV should switch, but, Apple doesn't like the experience to not be smooth :rolleyes:, Here's the digs on that:

    "*If your TV doesn’t support HDR10 or Dolby Vision at 60Hz (50Hz in Europe), Apple TV 4K can use these formats at 30Hz (25Hz in Europe), but you'll need to manually select a lower refresh rate in Settings > Video and Audio. Using lower refresh rates can result in poor performance, or choppy video when navigating on the home screen, within apps, or playing games. In these cases, Apple recommends lowering resolution to 1080p at 60Hz (50Hz in Europe) instead, and letting your television upscale to 4K. You will still be able to use HDR10 and Dolby Vision at these resolutions."

    from: "About 4K, HDR, and Dolby Vision on your Apple TV 4K" https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208074

    Hopefully, they will wise up that they need to do auto switching whether they like it or not. This should be fixed through a software update :cool:.

    ...one reason I have waited to buy a 4K TV is because of working out the new HDR standards, even this year's models, still, only a few brands with Dolby Vision support at all, (so far, 3 brands).
     
  14. Spankey macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    One more thing about the 2016 LG OLED’s. Dolby Vision can not be calibrated but HDR can. Saying HDR looks worse than HDR is not really true. It can look better but is not always the case. Still, calibrated HDR will look better than non-calibrated DV.
     
  15. perezr10 macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    It’s always a goal at The Verge to post the first review with a negative slant against Apple. I don’t deny the shortcomings but at the Verge they become headlines or the main focus.
     
  16. Cryates macrumors 68020

    Cryates

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    #16
    This is just..bad. The Verge is probably one of the best, and certainly one of the most in-depth major tech publications. Everything in the review is a reasonable complaint. They are honest, which you might perceive as a negative slant, but it’s not that. It’s honesty.
     
  17. DamFu macrumors regular

    DamFu

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    #17
    I love threads like this where the title contains some overly dramatic word like "Scathing" or " Monstrosity" or " EPIC FAIL". While the review did have some serious knocks on some things, it also described how it was all fixable with future updates, even pointing out that Apple themselves realize some of the shortcomings and is going to address them. A score of 7.5 is hardly "scathing".
     
  18. Packers1958 macrumors 65816

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    #18
    The Verge is right on it's criticism. A default setting of 4K HDR 60z is ridiculous. The only, and I mean only reason why they did that was to keep it's interface looking smooth. UHD blu ray players have their interfaces at 60hz, but automatically switches to 24hz playback when the play button is pushed. Apple could have easily done the same, but no. People may be finding out tomorrow that a 60hz HDR interface may cause issues if their HDMI cables are not UHD premium certified. HDR 60hz maxes out the HDMI standards, and if they don't have the correct cable, their screen may flash or go black.
     
  19. RollTide1017, Sep 21, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017

    RollTide1017 macrumors regular

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    #19
    This sucks and I refuse to buy one until they allow auto switching. I'll just stick with my 4th gen Apple TV. I was really excited about this device and I can't believe Apple would make a decision like this. They just lost a huge chunk of the A/V enthusiast community.

    I find it funny that the Xbox One Netflix app engages HDR as soon as it is launched. This cause all 1080p SDR content to look washed out. It is considered a bug in the Xbox community yet with Apple, it is a feature.

    The fact that Apple is more concerned about there UI instead of the content we will be watching 90% of the time is just ridiculous. This is a huge mistake in judgment by Apple IMO. Really disappointed with this whole development.
     
  20. tomandshell macrumors regular

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    #20
    I just read the entire review.

    Calling it “scathing” in the thread title is just clickbait. That was a mixed review. Scathing means severely critical, which this wasn’t.
     
  21. boltjames macrumors 601

    boltjames

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    #21
    Apple is walking a fine line here and it's not an easy one. I can see why they made this decision.

    We are in a transitional phase where 1080p is everywhere and it's working very well for consumers and there is so little meaningful 4K or HDR content out there, why take the risk that to appease the 1% who wants the finest UHD experience they'll create a nightmare for the 99% who just want an Apple TV that is future-proof?

    What you just said....."the A/V enthusiast community".....that's not Apple's audience. They're making streaming boxes for naive consumers who a) don't realize their TV's have all the apps that ATV has and b) just bought a 4K TV so they think they need a 4K Apple TV. Mock those types all you want, that's what's paying Apple's bills on this project.

    When 4K HDR gets real, when the big networks in the US start broadcasting the major sports in 4K HDR, when the regional sports networks start broadcasting in 4K HDR, that's when consumers will get serious and have the right HDMI cables and the right AVR's with the right HDMI protocols. Until then, 4K HDR is a novelty, it's waterfalls in Iceland or a closeup of a snake or a drone video of Hawaii you play for 60 seconds to make your friends go "whoa, so that's what 4K is?"
     
  22. Packers1958, Sep 21, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017

    Packers1958 macrumors 65816

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    #22
    The OTA networks in the US will not be broadcasting in 4K HDR anytime soon. In fact, HLG, can apply a form of HDR to 1080i and 720p signals.
     
  23. boltjames macrumors 601

    boltjames

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    #23
    I understand. And, frankly, it just isn't very necessary. We all know this isn't the jump in visual fidelity that SD to HD was ten years ago, not even close. I just got my first 4K HDR panel a week ago, had fun using the snake and drone demo's on YouTube in the onboard smart OS to impress my friends, but in the end watching House Of Cards in HDR isn't that important, 1080p looks just as good from 14 feet.

    It looks like Apple resisted 4K for two years and now is reluctantly getting onboard but they are doing so in a way that's balanced so they don't appease the 1% and piss off the 99%. Looks like the decision was to piss off the 1%. With the shallow amount of content available and very little hope of broadcasters getting onboard in the near future, it's an interesting technology looking for support that it's not getting.
     
  24. RollTide1017, Sep 21, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017

    RollTide1017 macrumors regular

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    #24
    I don't necessarily disagree with what you said but, that still doesn't make this a good decision by Apple. There excuse that TV's switching modes is inelegant is a stretch IMO. I'd argue that most 4k TVs handle the switch pretty seamlessly. My screen goes black for a second, maybe 2 at most then the content displays without any problems. I've never viewed this switch as inelegant or thought about it at all really until today. Apple has brought attention to something that wasn't really an issue.

    I know I'm not alone in this thought but, I'm not buying one until Apple decides to let my TV switch modes like it was designed to do. When I watch an iTunes movie that supports DV, I don't want to have to go into settings and switch to DV and then back the HDR10 for a different movie or vis versa. I also don't want to rely on some artificial Apple conversion process to convert HDR10 to DV. It just not an ideal solution by Apple IMO. I just don't believe that people would have complain about there TVs switching modes, I think 4K TV owners get use to it pretty quickly. Apple solved a problem that didn't really exist.
     
  25. vipergts2207 macrumors 68020

    vipergts2207

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    #25
    Anyone can go into the iTunes 4K HDR section and see that this statement is untrue. Not to mention from here on out, most movies are likely going to have an HDR version released.
     

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