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It’s interesting to be how people see the return of Jobs years as “typical” Apple when, in fact, the opposite is true. Look at Apple before Jobs returned. There were lots of “untypical” things going on. Can you say clones?!

Fair point, though I don't really want those days to return (which until recently, I've feared is happening). I guess when I say typical Apple, I'm talking more about their better years of the early Mac an UI-pioneering and then after Jobs' return. Those were the real-Apple times, whereas the the other times were when the 'suits' and 'industry-experts' got ahold of the company.
 
I've already stated that Elon probably wouldn't be content working under Tim Cook. But IF he's truly sick of supply chain and manufacturing logistics, not to mention investors and funding woes, he might accept the trade offs. And Tim Cook might offer Elon autonomy over Tesla, a similar privilege extended only to Jony Ive.
Ive is an acclaimed designer, Musk not. Cook is a supply chain genius, Musk not. If Apple ever acquires Tesla, they would fire Elon next day.
 
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I think you're making the assumption that self-driving is some kind of advantage or new forward-thinking feature. For those of us who like to drive, it's a sci-fi nightmare. For the rest, it is just sci-fi.
I like the sci-fi.

But I was mainly thinking about the kind of product Apple is likely to deliver. It will be loaded with sensors, and the output from those sensors will not be available directly to a human driver. It would be more data than you could process (or rather not in a format that your primate brain has evolved to process).
 
It would be very inefficient, in my view, for Apple to buy Tesla. Tesla isn't Ford or BWM, who have been manufacturing cars for many decades. Tesla themselves are still working out the whole "making a physical car" thing. Yes, Tesla has done a heap of design, engineering, and testing, including software, but how much of that effort would translate to Apple's vision of its car? How much effort would it take to just figure out what Tesla has, design/engineering-wise, that Apple would want to keep, and then integrate it with what Apple has already done? I think Apple would be better off approaching the car the way they do mobile processors, i.e. do everything in-house but make it, then contract with a leading manufacturing partner for the physical product. I realize there's no TSMC equivalent in the car space, so it would have to be more like a joint venture arrangement with BMW, for example.

I think you're being highly dismissive of Tesla's many accomplishments. That said, you bring up a fair point. Apple might not want everything Tesla has to offer. I'm sure this is true in the design arena. But there's more to a car than design and software. There's the entire infrastructure needed to build, sell, and service cars, not to mention charging. If Apple bought Tesla, overnight there would be thousands of Apple Superchargers all across the country. Whenever people talk about Apple building cars, my big worry is service. Living a hundred miles from the nearest Apple store is a real pain when your computer dies. Imagine living a hundred miles from the nearest Apple car service facility. It would/will take many years and many billions of dollars for Apple to build out the infrastructure Tesla has in place today.
 
Never going to happen. Elon Musk is looney tunes. I wouldn’t want him anywhere near Apple.

“Do you wanna sell watch bands for the rest of your life or do you want to come with Elon and change the future of transport and energy consumption”

Love Apple. Hate the past 5 years. Invested long in tesla. Elon has balls and ambition. Meanwhile Captain Cook and his crew are giving us more watch straps, $5k laptops that you can’t service and have abandoned the Mac line.

You tell me who is the loony tune.
 
I am certain many would disagree, and for good reasons, but I think if Apple would acquire Tesla, which probably would require about $70B worth of cash and/or stock swap, many problems would be solved.

I would disagree for a few reasons. While Elon is very talented and has achieved a lot, he isn’t Steve Jobs. Jobs was volatile and nuts, so they have that in common, but Jobs had arguably much better taste than Elon and was a more focused personality than him. Jobs knew when to not do things and when to say no. So the culture of Apple directed heavily by Steve became something Elon wouldn’t really suit at all IMO. Elon would be a too strong of the wrong kind of personality for Apple’s culture and I think he’d be a danger not just to Apple’s culture, but Apple itself. Tesla was created in Elon’s image and it’s very much a technology first culture. Apple is a design first culture. Culture clashes like this can destroy companies. It would be a disaster IMO. Tim and his executives had the sense to this. They haven’t acquired Tesla for several reasons. They easily could, they sensibly haven’t.
 
I am certain many would disagree, and for good reasons, but I think if Apple would acquire Tesla, which probably would require about $70B worth of cash and/or stock swap, many problems would be solved.

Tesla and Elon would no longer need to seek funding and talk to investors directly. And gain access to Tim Cook's supply chain and manufacturing leverage power and experience.

For Apple, Apple will be able to fold its Project Titan and CarPlay projects into Tesla and immediately gain access to charging stations and battery technologies.

Of course, the merger assumes Elon would be content running only the product and engineering side of businesses. Steve Jobs apparently did, but I am not sure Elon would be "fine" being under Tim Cook's leadership.

That would be a blockbuster of a deal that would send waves through two industries.

But while there are many potential synergies were it to happen, it wouldn't necessarily be a smooth road.

Tesla's strength is not in building cars, it's in the battery technology, battery supply chain, and charger network it has built. While it has managed to create a manufacturing operation, and the cars are very good in many respects, the "car" part is not their strong point, doesn't separate them from the rest of the OEMs. In terms of manufacturing, they're painfully behind after betting big and losing to processes dating back a century.

Apple has expert supply chain management, at least in the CE realm, but no experience in building durable and white goods like cars and appliances. They would have to partner with an existing OEM, or a contract builder like Magna Steyr to build the vehicles, and the first approaches they've made were rejected. What somebody like Magna, Multimatic, or Valmet does is not what Foxconn does, so an army of cheap Chinese labor isn't going to switch right over from cranking out iPhones to cars.

It's a mystery what state Project Titan is in, and how good it is compared to the rest, but it has been a troubled project, and I wouldn't automatically assume that has caught up to an acknowledged leader like Waymo, given the lead the latter has, and ample evidence of how difficult it is to overcome. Lessons may have been learned from the Maps fiasco, but the circumstances are still very similar, and the outcome could be as well.

It's an interesting idea, and could work, but no slam dunk, even when you don't consider the personalities and other potential management questions that would arise.
 
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And yet Apple Maps and Siri are almost unusable. Ironically both of them are integral to autonomous driving. And they almost a decade old.

Sorry I’m not inspired with confidence with this story.

Apple maps unusable? You prefer google maps but that doesn’t mean Apple maps is unusable. I’ve used it on 3 continents in the last 6 months and haven’t had any issue with it.
 
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I like the sci-fi.

But I was mainly thinking about the kind of product Apple is likely to deliver. It will be loaded with sensors, and the output from those sensors will not be available directly to a human driver. It would be more data than you could process (or rather not in a format that your primate brain has evolved to process).

I wouldn't hold being loaded with sensors against it... and they could be useful for some assistive technology, I guess. But, my gut (and the bit of leaks we've seen) tell me Apple is chasing after some aspect of the control system for automated cars. While I suppose $billions can do a lot, I'm doubting they could pull off the whole car, or might not even want to.

As for the sci-fi, just be sure you don't end up like that Apple employee. Stay safe and don't trust it. It's far over-hyped.

Musk is a visionary, and a genius at seeing the big picture. He is more like Jobs than either Ive or Cook.

I'm not going to compare Jobs' vision to Musk's, but having more vision than Ive or Cook doesn't seem to hard to me.

Whenever people talk about Apple building cars, my big worry is service. Living a hundred miles from the nearest Apple store is a real pain when your computer dies. Imagine living a hundred miles from the nearest Apple car service facility. It would/will take many years and many billions of dollars for Apple to build out the infrastructure Tesla has in place today.

I think it's even worse than that. You can't do software releases or systems design for a car like Apple does for iOS/macOS. Musk has the rocket stuff going in his court there... he knows how to do highly critical systems where error can't be tolerated.

Then there is all the safety stuff, regulations, etc. I even worry about Tesla there, a bit, compared to the traditional manufacturers, as they have decades of experience under their belts. You can hire some good engineers, but there is still something said for a history of knowledge and experience.
 
Apple maps unusable? You prefer google maps but that doesn’t mean Apple maps is unusable. I’ve used it on 3 continents in the last 6 months and haven’t had any issue with it.

I've used it since inception since 2012, every single time I try to make it my default app, I run into issues from wasting time due to wrong directions, to outdated data that Apple doesn't care to update even after reporting it, to lesser incidents, but equally frustrating. When relatives/friends tell me any mishap, I instantly ask are you using google maps or apple maps? NEVER USE APPLE MAPS. PERIOD.

Google is full of references to its atrocity, just a random result I found as recent as June 2018:

"Apple Maps is still terrible, but Apple is doing something about it"
https://www.techradar.com/news/apple-maps-is-still-terrible-but-apple-is-doing-something-about-it

And Siri has stagnated for nearly a decade since it was purchased.

We are supposed to be inspired by autonomous driving by Apple, and they can't even innovate with Siri or Maps?
 
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Apple could buy Telsa the auto company, and leave the other Tesla ventures alone.

Working with partners is a long, hard road. Look at CarPlay and how long it took to roll out. Rolling your own car? Obviously it can be done (see Tesla), but it's taken Telsa years to build the car making machine. Tim could do that, but it's all he'd be doing for years.

The thing is, there's no reason to buy Tesla. Private car ownership as we know it is going away. Driving as we know it is going away. The car of the future will probably look more like an entertainment pod that brings you to where you want to go. In fact, it could even dock with your house and be a literal part of it while you're at home (ignore the practical issue of your living room leaving your house in the AM).

The future could look more like a public fleet with only the rich having their own little pod bubbles.

Mansfield is back, so I suspect that Apple's direction is something that isn't really a car just like the iPhone wasn't really a phone.

Remember, what is Apple good at? Integration, design, and manufacturing.
 
I used Maps for a 4000km road trip in France and Spain. They have been flawless.

Siri, like all other digital assistants, is in its infancy.

Lol that's surprising to hear- it's trash in America. Every now and then I try Apple Maps to see if improvements have been made but still it takes me through weird routes that take more time.

Alexa may be an infant, but it's definitely the smarter infant who learned how to walk and talk first.
 
“Do you wanna sell watch bands for the rest of your life or do you want to come with Elon and change the future of transport and energy consumption”

Love Apple. Hate the past 5 years. Invested long in tesla. Elon has balls and ambition. Meanwhile Captain Cook and his crew are giving us more watch straps, $5k laptops that you can’t service and have abandoned the Mac line.

You tell me who is the loony tune.
You are obviously not the target market for their watch straps then. Why shouldn't they make them for the people who actually want them? Or should they only make the products you are interested in?

Apple hasn't abandoned the Mac line. They released the iMac Pro just last year and they released new Macbook Pros just last month.
 
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I am certain many would disagree, and for good reasons, but I think if Apple would acquire Tesla, which probably would require about $70B worth of cash and/or stock swap, many problems would be solved.

Tesla and Elon would no longer need to seek funding and talk to investors directly. And gain access to Tim Cook's supply chain and manufacturing leverage power and experience.

For Apple, Apple will be able to fold its Project Titan and CarPlay projects into Tesla and immediately gain access to charging stations and battery technologies.

Of course, the merger assumes Elon would be content running only the product and engineering side of businesses. Steve Jobs apparently did, but I am not sure Elon would be "fine" being under Tim Cook's leadership.

I think Elon would be fine with this arrangement. He's an engineer first - his other hats are just what he does out of necessity. He has mentioned on several occasions that he'd be okay with someone else being CEO. I imagine he'd want more of a co-CEO, or some kind of role where Elon has final say, but ordinarily the CEO simply takes care of everything so Elon doesn't have to think about it.

Ideally, he wants an equivalent to what he has with Shotwell at SpaceX. She's SpaceX's head when Musk is focusing on Tesla, and she handles the short term business choices of keeping paying customers happy with the existing Falcon 9 launches, while Musk is free to focus on longer term choices of developing larger rockets for colonizing Mars.

I think Musk would love to similarly hand Model 3 off to someone else and leave him free to focus more on designing future vehicles - the Semi, the pickup, and the second generation Roadster.
 
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And yet Apple Maps and Siri are almost unusable. Ironically both of them are integral to autonomous driving. And they almost a decade old.

I use Apple maps exclusively because it is more accurate than google. Google can’t even give accurate directions to my house in So Cal that was built on 1981 before Google existed. It knows my address yet sends people to a completely different street. I can’t even use services like Lyft because they use Google maps and are too stupid to read a map manually.
 
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What's the difference between a self-driving car and a car that's being driven by someone remotely?

Answer: the latter is easier.
 
Never going to happen. Elon Musk is looney tunes. I wouldn’t want him anywhere near Apple.

‘You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things... they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.’
 
‘You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can't do is ignore them because they change things... they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.’

I miss that Apple.
 
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