Scratched Screen? Tripped a water damage indicator? Let ATT and Apple foot the bill

[mrkgoo]

Agreed. The first ding is always the worst. If the product is still functional, then consider yourself fortunate.

I know people like to baby their products as much as possible when new, but they do develop battle scars over time. My week old iPhone 3G was my baby. I was showing MotionX Poker to my GF, and she asked to have a go - first thing she shook it and let go sending it flying to the ground, making some gouge marks in the chrome bezel. But so what? It still worked as before. No harm done.

Of course, if the damage is more than cosmetic, that sucks even more, but again, that's not the manufacturer's fault most of the time. It can be - for example, if they made a frictionless surface meaning people could not hold a device, but the iPhone isn't manufactured like that.

If consumers were actually honest, they wouldn't have to put a moisture sensor to begin with. Think about it - the only reason it's there is to stop dishonest returns.

 

[Cander]

To play Devil's Advocate - I'd be more inclined to say that it might do the opposite. People are getting used to being able to negotiate, see lower prices, etc and when things begin to turn around and they aren't offered the same concessions, they will moan and groan about it.

Could be right. Look at the fiasco with the 3GS upgrade pricing.

So consumers are lazy AND have a huge sense of entitlement.

 

[rKunda]

I agree 100%. Apparently, personal accountability and responsibility are becoming lost virtues.

Somewhere along the line, it seems to have become an entitlement that nobody should feel inconvenienced or uncomfortable, and if they do, someone else should fix it for them.

I'd say they are not only gone, but largely forgotten. =)

Infact, those that advocate them are often berated, even on these forums.

 

[GFSarah]

I've returned a macbook pro that I dented on accident.

I am sorry, but that is my choice and I choose to tell them that it wasn't my fault.

I got two scratched iphones and one dented MBP fixed that way.

Ummm, I think the OP was posting about YOU....
Sam Craig-- those are some wise words. Speak on it...

AMEN to Mikey and bravo to Sam Craig.

EnderTW: YOU are what is wrong with the world. People like YOU who get through life by lying and cheating to get whatever you want at the expense of others.

If YOU broke it, then YOU should either live with the damage or pay to fix it. If you can sleep at night by lying to get others to pay for YOUR mistakes, then again I repeat YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY.

About personal accountability and responsibility being lost virtues ...

I'd say they are not only gone, but largely forgotten. =)

Infact, those that advocate them are often berated, even on these forums.

+1

 

[pelicanflip]

AMEN to Mikey and bravo to Sam Craig.

EnderTW: YOU are what is wrong with the world. People like YOU who get through life by lying and cheating to get whatever you want at the expense of others.

If YOU broke it, then YOU should either live with the damage or pay to fix it. If you can sleep at night by lying to get others to pay for YOUR mistakes, then again I repeat YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY.

raining down the fire and brimstone eh? at least he admitted to it.

 

[GFSarah]

raining down the fire and brimstone eh? at least he admitted to it.

It looked more like bragging to me, and either way, does saying it here make what he did okay? How ever you choose to spin it, what he did was dishonest and the wrong party paid for his mistake.

I guess it is true what rKunda said: Those who advocate personal accountability and responsibility really are berated, even on these forums.

 

[pelicanflip]

It looked more like bragging to me, and either way, does saying it here make what he did okay? How ever you choose to spin it, what he did was dishonest and the wrong party paid for his mistake.

I guess it is true what rKunda said: Those who advocate personal accountability and responsibility really are berated, even on these forums.

hey, i never condoned what he did. i'm just saying that you make it out to be that he just murdered steve jobs in cold blood or something...

 

[mikey28]

raining down the fire and brimstone eh? at least he admitted to it.

Admitted to it? He was PROUD of it. Since when is it ok to be proud of cheating?

 

[Apple Corps]

hey, i never condoned what he did. i'm just saying that you make it out to be that he just murdered steve jobs in cold blood or something...

WOW - talk about spinning something - that is NOT how I read the GFSarah response at all. The lying & cheating & spinning is a growing problem for our entire society.

 

[pelicanflip]

Admitted to it? He was PROUD of it. Since when is it ok to be proud of cheating?

and your letting someone online get to you about him ripping off people with his warranty.

i never said it was okay, i never said i approve of him. does it bother me that there are people like him? yes, but i don't let it get me all riled up. seriously, calm down.

i'd rather people who abuse the warranty for replacements openly say that they do, instead of pretending that they really are just "victims" and "innocent customers." Those kind of customers are what really bother me, because it's obvious that they're just straight up lying to get what they want and they whine and moan like kids.

 

[za9ra22]

EnderTW: YOU are what is wrong with the world. People like YOU who get through life by lying and cheating to get whatever you want at the expense of others..... then again I repeat YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY.

There's a lot wrong with the world today, this being a tiny, tiny part of it. Let's not blow it out of proportion or those who do it will have an excuse to laugh at the reaction. These people set out to defraud stores and as such are little more than shoplifters of a slightly different hue. That's how they should be treated.

 

[pelicanflip]

WOW - talk about spinning something - that is NOT how I read the GFSarah response at all. The lying & cheating & spinning is a growing problem for our entire society.

"AMEN to Mikey and bravo to Sam Craig.

EnderTW: YOU are what is wrong with the world. People like YOU who get through life by lying and cheating to get whatever you want at the expense of others.

If YOU broke it, then YOU should either live with the damage or pay to fix it. If you can sleep at night by lying to get others to pay for YOUR mistakes, then again I repeat YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY."

i agree with the lying and cheating and spinning part wholeheartedly, don't get me wrong.

that last part though..."YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE WORLD TODAY". i'm pretty sure there are much worse things in the world than abusing the warranty on an iphone or a computer for a replacement.

There's a lot wrong with the world today, this being a tiny, tiny part of it. Let's not blow it out of proportion or those who do it will have an excuse to laugh at the reaction. These people set out to defraud stores and as such as little more than shoplifters of a slightly different hue. That's how they should be treated.

seriously, thank you! i thought i was the only person who felt this way...

 

[-aggie-]

Seriously, I think you guys love to argue

Anyway, here's a different viewpoint about this issue:

Oh my god. This post took off quick didn't it!

Switching the phone out for a different color
I've actually already done this, because I had reserved a white 16 GB at the Galleria Apple store and it turned into a black 16 GB in the Woodlands, and after launch date I exchanged it for what I should have gotten in the first place.

Other comments about "defrauding" Apple
The warranty being nullified by a tripped water sensor is more along the lines of Apple defrauding consumers. There are actually four water sensors on the iPhone. One is the headphone jack, one is in the dock connector, and two are in "internal" places.

Why doesn't Apple hinge the warranty on the internal sensors instead of those that are obviously over-exposed to rain? What are they even there for? Extra protection for Apple incase they think water damage occurred but it didn't trip the other two sensors? Where's my extra protection?

If I was having an issue with my headphone jack not working, and the headphone jack water sensor was tripped, that would be one thing.

However that's not what's going to happen. What's going to happen is the ring/silent switch is going to fall off one day, because that's what has happened to almost every iPhone 3G that I've had (and they've been replaced numerous times because of it).

Apple denies warranty claims that couldn't possibly be related to water damage on the basis of a 1 mm sticker shoved in the headphone jack.

A car company isn't going to claim your door handle fell off because you drove through high water and flooded the interior because logic tells you that water doesn't cause door handles to fall off.

Logic also tells you that water doesn't cause ringer switches to fall off.

The issue here is not that I'm trying to get something I don't deserve. The issue is that Apple arbitrarily voids warranties because of a sticker in a vulnerable location and gives no consideration to whether or not the problem could have actually been caused by water damage.

To clarify I'm not trying to get the phone replaced for something that happened due to water damage, because the water did nothing to the phone other than activate the sensor. What I'm trying to do is not get stuck with a broken phone eight months from now when the ringer switch falls off or something like that.

Anyone dealt with SquareTrade?

 

[samcraig]

And my reply to that is:

The warranty being nullified by a tripped water sensor is more along the lines of Apple defrauding consumers."

No.. it's a corporation setting a precedent and protecting their butts from the hundreds of people that are going to try and scam their way out of dealing with their own messes.

While your situation sucks - the ultimate truth is - you want Apple to ensure and insure any FUTURE things that go wrong by replacing an unrelated issue you caused to the phone.

I'm not saying they shouldn't or couldn't replace it based on your issue. I'm saying that they could, should, and have every right to charge you or anyone for it versus just doing an exchange.

Would you be willing to pay, say $50-$100 for a full diagnostic and to have your stickers "reset" and warranty re-instated. Or do you sincerely believe that you are not liable for any costs?

 

[Apple Corps]

pelicanflip - there are far far far worse things in life - but we are not hear expressing views on war, real torture, hunger, etc.

It is only a little deceit, fraud, stealing.......

That is probably how crooks like Bernie Madhoff got started.....

 

[za9ra22]

Anyway, here's a different viewpoint about this issue....

I think the point to remember in this situation is not whether this is an attempt to defraud Apple or not, but what the consequence is, because it's not that Apple (or AT&T or whoever with other products) eats the cost of replacing devices which the user has broken. They pass that cost on to the consumer, just as they pass on the cost of merchandise lost through theft. It's built in to the sales price of everything we buy.

Thus, to perpetrate this fraud, the rest of the buying public have to subsidize each and every user who gets away with it. Collectively we pay for your iPhone, as well as our own.

 

[pelicanflip]

pelicanflip - there are far far far worse things in life - but we are not hear expressing views on war, real torture, hunger, etc.

It is only a little deceit, fraud, stealing.......

That is probably how crooks like Bernie Madhoff got started.....

likewise, this is far different than what Bernie Madhoff did.

 

[jrm27]

And my reply to that is:

The warranty being nullified by a tripped water sensor is more along the lines of Apple defrauding consumers."

No.. it's a corporation setting a precedent and protecting their butts from the hundreds of people that are going to try and scam their way out of dealing with their own messes.

While your situation sucks - the ultimate truth is - you want Apple to ensure and insure any FUTURE things that go wrong by replacing an unrelated issue you caused to the phone.

I'm not saying they shouldn't or couldn't replace it based on your issue. I'm saying that they could, should, and have every right to charge you or anyone for it versus just doing an exchange.

Would you be willing to pay, say $50-$100 for a full diagnostic and to have your stickers "reset" and warranty re-instated. Or do you sincerely believe that you are not liable for any costs?

Samcraig:

I'll chip in here, so i can't speak for anyone else. Firstly, this is not argumentative and I'm finding a lot of the discourse on this thread to be interesting.

I would be happy to pay a little extra. However, that is why I purchased applecare. I purchased something to help extend my warranty.

Apple told me that they couldn't repair the switch because of the water sensor (only 1 of 4 had been activated), even though the problem I was asking to be fixed could not have been caused even if I threw my iphone in the pool (which I didn't of course). Their main reasoning was that they then couldn't take my iphone and refurbish it and sell it that way. To be honest, that's not my problem. I just wanted my mute switch fixed. I'd be more than happy to take my "water-damaged" phone back with a fixed mute switch. Really, it makes no difference to me because I've seen no reduced functionality and I know the claimed water damage is bogus.

So yes, I would pay more. Yes, I did pay more by buying an extended applecare program. That's probably not the type of thing that you are getting at though! Interesting discussion...

 

[samcraig]

deceit is deciept. lying is lying. And stealing is stealing. I know that sounds black and white and I'm fully aware there are grey areas.

But if you look at an isolated incident - it's not that bad. But you have to multiply it out times the number of people who are perpetuating the fraud.

Another random anecdote/scenario. Not sure if this is STILL the case - but did you know that each bank teller can be off in their drawer up to x amount of dollars. I think it's $100. And I think that if it happens 3 times you're terminated. Again - I'm using a scenario I was told by several bank employees several years ago.

Now - and you can see where I am going with this. How scary is it to think that on any given day, thousands of bank tellers are off on their count of up to $100 or more. Each day.

Now I know to some degree - it's a wash - some will be higher, some will be lower, etc. But at the same time, I look at today's banking industry and see how something like that can have an impact- even if it's a small one.

One person returning an iphone and scamming their way into a new one isn't the issue. It's condoning and encouraging the behavior on message boards like this that compound the problem, send the wrong message to the "guilty" parties involved and will no doubt cause issues for those with genuine problems.

You think apple is so strict about the water damage just because they can be? I am sure a good chunk of their policy is because of the amount they've had to fork out over the years with ALL their equipment because they were lax in the past.

 

[jrm27]

deceit is deciept. lying is lying. And stealing is stealing. I know that sounds black and white and I'm fully aware there are grey areas..

Agreed, I'm black and white on this kind of thing too. I probably recognize that there aren't grey areas when it comes to deceipt and lying and stealing... just a different societal response depending on the situation (which is neither here nor there)

You think apple is so strict about the water damage just because they can be? I am sure a good chunk of their policy is because of the amount they've had to fork out over the years with ALL their equipment because they were lax in the past.

It's possible. But I also think they might be iron-fisted because there isn't a darn thing anyone else can do about it. When they control the access to the warranty replacement iphones/repairs, they've got all the chips. Since my conversation with apple turned to the fact that they wouldn't be able to re-sell my iphone because of the water sensor makes me think there is more to the story. What they do with my phone after a repair or replacement isn't really my business, nor is it my problem. I'm also concerned that there is more to the story when there are lots of similar stories popping up... it almost feels like a copout when you realize that they put one very suspect water sensor in a very suspect and vulnerable place, yet ignore any of the status of the other sensors. I'm even more concerned that they can't make a phone that can travel from my car to my home without voiding the warranty.

Regardless, I am a really really big fan of apple. I love their products and pimp them out whenever possible. No one is twisting my arm to use the iphone, and I'll probably upgrade on the next product cycle. I'm not interested in scamming, defrauding, or finding loopholes with them and am not encouraging others to do so in the slightest. Sometimes (and this is with lots of companies) it feels like that sentiment isn't returned. Not all consumers want to cheat the system.... we just all get screwed by those who do (which may be the point of this thread). I just wouldn't mind fair and equitable treatment on all sides.

 

[yum114]

Oh Yum. That's a useless argument. I could counter and say that the first devices cost more because of R&D. Because Apple bean counted how many they might need to replace. Or whatever.

My point, which is valid unless you're being selfish, is that no one is to blame or should be held accountable for YOU damaging a product.

I don't care if every other laptop on the market can be thrown up against a wall and you bent yours because you mishandled it. You caused the damage and you have to deal with the reprecussions. No one put a gun to your head and made you damage your equipment. And the dent, I am sure, did nothing to the functionality of the laptop. You just didn't like how it looked cosmetically. Too bad for you. Maybe next time you'll be more careful or buy something that can take the beating. Either way - it's not Apple's responsibility to make sure you treat your gear with care.

You sound ignorant. As much as I pay for a product I expect it to hold up. I would hate to pay 600 for a pair of jeans wash them 1 time(not me but normal wear and tear) and they rip in half. its not about being careful or not if products are made cheap they're made cheap! No matter how much you take care of them if something goes wrong out of your own control it should be on the manufacture. Im not saying I beat the sides up Im saying I held it by one side which is what people do. Laptops are meant to be moved around. Im not sure about you but thats why I buy them. If they cant even manage me picking it up then the business should be responsible for that!

 

[PackFan]

As much as I pay for a product I expect it to hold up. I would hate to pay 600 for a pair of jeans wash them 1 time(not me but normal wear and tear) and they rip in half.

As he said - it is your responsibility how you treat your equipment. I would expect most pieces of electronics to show some form of damage if I drop it. That is not the company's responsibility.

By the way - I would recommend against washing your iPhone - even once. I guarantee you will not like the result - and I'm sure it will be Apple's fault...

 

[fleshman03]

This thread and OP irk me to no end. I am not going to use my choice words for this, out of fear that I would go too far and get banned. Instead, I will simply state a point.

Corporations have been screwing people long before people have tried to screw them.

Choice Examples:
1) SMS costs the carrier an insanely small fee to transmit. (Fractions of a cent.) However they charge potentially hundreds of dollars for this.

2) Health Insurance companies are known to reject any claim on the face of it.

3) Apple will fail to replace a defect in the phone if you get a small amount of water on your phone in the wrong place.


My question this OP is this; "why do you choose the side of a corporation that will bend you over and take you for all your worth?"

Need you look any further than the current economic crisis to prove that corporations want/need to take you for all your worth?

For anyone here who sides with Apple, ATT or any other company, I ask you to watch The Corporation. (iTunes Link; Website Link)

 

[PackFan]

This thread and OP irk me to no end. I am not going to use my choice words for this, out of fear that I would go too far and get banned. Instead, I will simply state a point.

Corporations have been screwing people long before people have tried to screw them.

Choice Examples:
1) SMS costs the carrier an insanely small fee to transmit. (Fractions of a cent.) However they charge potentially hundreds of dollars for this.

2) Health Insurance companies are known to reject any claim on the face of it.

3) Apple will fail to replace a defect in the phone if you get a small amount of water on your phone in the wrong place.


My question this OP is this; "why do you choose the side of a corporation that will bend you over and take you for all your worth?"

Need you look any further than the current economic crisis to prove that corporations want/need to take you for all your worth?

For anyone here who sides with Apple, ATT or any other company, I ask you to watch The Corporation. (iTunes Link; Website Link)

So.... You reconcile lying and cheating to get your product replaced because of how much Apple has personally screwed you? Nice logic...

It's not that we're necessarily siding with the 'big corporations' over the individual here. It would just be nice for people to have some of their own moral responsibility here. It actually screws the honest people over when people behave as such.

 

[fleshman03]

So.... You reconcile lying and cheating to get your product replaced because of how much Apple has personally screwed you? Nice logic...

It's not that we're necessarily siding with the 'big corporations' over the individual here. It would just be nice for people to have some of their own moral responsibility here. It actually screws the honest people over when people behave as such.

This is coved in the movie that I linked to.

Corporations are legally obligated to not have any morals and only account for their bottom line. Why should have have morals while dealing with them?