Second-Generation iPhone X Estimated to Cost Apple Up to 10% Less to Manufacture

[Baymowe335]

Fair enough. But even those numbers indicate 2015 unit sales are still way higher.

Yes, but I told you why AND iPhone revenue (what matters) is up sharply. They are selling for $800 each now. It was in the $600 range in 2015.

1.3B active devices means unit sales become less and less meaningful. Apple is monetizing the user base and will be viewed as a services company in the future.

 

[DNichter]

I had the same smartphone tech enthusiasm circa 2012. Long gone.

Completely agree. I just need a solid product that is going to give me the best overall value.

 

[EugW]

Yes, but I told you why AND iPhone revenue (what matters) is up sharply. They are selling for $800 each now. It was in the $600 range in 2015.

1.3B active devices means unit sales become less and less meaningful. Apple is monetizing the user base and will be viewed as a services company in the future.

I guess time will tell. I'm betting on a price decrease on the entry level OLED model come fall. Some may think it's due just to decreased component costs, and some may think it's just due to price gouging of early adopters, and some like me think it's both of the above along with a component of Apple expecting higher unit sales but not getting them due to high price.

I suspect they could increase revenues even further with a price cut, as many more customers would be inclined to make the jump up from the low end model, and they'd get other customers as well. Like I've mentioned elsewhere, I (along with a lot of people) simply will refuse to buy an entry level OLED model at $999 (or CAD$1319 here), regardless of whether or not I can afford it.

 

[Cmdrx3]

Never in a million years will I pay £1000 for a phone. I had debated buying an iPhone 8 however I decided that even that was far too expensive. It's a phone ffs, so I let the sensible head win and I sold my iPhone 6 for £150. My son had bought a Pixel 2 as he was bored and fed up with iPhones so I put another £150 to it and bought his year old iPhone 7. But another iPhone after this... nah, I'm done with Apple now I think. They are just starting to take the p... with their pricing so I think it's time to seriously consider moving to Android next time around, and I don't mean Samsung with their own stupidity in following Apples pricing ideas. There are some great phones for £300-£500 now and probably a lot more by the time I'm ready to change phones.

 

[Michael Goff]

Just like your claim that LG V30s is released in March? It's almost April dear.

A) I’m not your dear
B) I was going by latest rumors
C) Analysts have iPhone X sales at 29m in the first quarter it was out. Sales of the S9 aren’t likely to beat S8, which were 20m in the first 3 months it was out. No other single model of phone sells as well as the S line.

 

[ChrisChaval]

I was in China last fall. What shocked me was the fact that sales girls in shopping malls had iPhones, even though they might make US$600 a month.

However, the iPhone SE did seem more popular there than here in Canada.

This is about personal preference and choice and I am certainly not in a position to judge, but I can confirm this type of behavior in other (European) countries as well.

It is kind of sad though as with tech the most recent model you are getting to buy is already outdated.

IMO a loan is worth taking for an apartment or house, maybe a car or even better a motorbike, certainly not a phone. by the time you finish paying for it it's waste

 

[decder]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/combined-iphone-x-yellow-blue-shifted-display.2083752/
72 pages of posts say hi.

and Apple releasing an articles on the day of sales regarding "normal behavior" is certainly not helping either:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208191

As well as 45 pages of this: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/eye-strain-while-using-iphone-x.2085427/page-45#post-25913351

 

[hans1972]

Yeah, I can afford it but I won't pay it $1000 US for a non-Plus phone. Not worth the extra $100-200. Sorry Apple. And from the reported sales, it's pretty clear that a lot of people agree.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ewansp...sales-problem-nasty-bad-timcook/#437fcc002aad
http://www.newsweek.com/iphone-x-sales-are-less-half-apple-expectations-814039

"Sales of the iPhone X have fallen way below Apple’s expectations, with reports suggesting orders of the flagship device are around 30 million under than original estimates."

The Newsweek article has no sources, has no facts that can be checked, and there are no links to the reports. And I pretty sure that those reports will still be just other web articles with really no facts that can be checked and verified.

The Forbes articles uses a decline of a million sold devices as claim that iPhone sales are rapidly declining due to price. But if you look at it based on financial years instead of calendar years, the sales went up:

2014: 169.22
2015: 231.22
2016: 211.88
2017: 216.76

Then the author claims that the demise of Nokia, Motorola, Siemens and Palm was caused by their leadership was to focused on profit. Nokia had mobile phones at almost every price points including phones in the late 1990 which could be compared to todays iPhone X. The demise of these companies had to much more with being disrupted by the software revolution by Apple and later Google.

 

[naturalstar]

I don’t see the price dropping, but I can see it being the same price as the current X for the 5.8” size, though I still lean towards $100 more because of other improvements made. It will remain to be seen at what price the other sizes will come in.

 

[EugW]

The Newsweek article has no sources, has no facts that can be checked, and there are no links to the reports. And I pretty sure that those reports will still be just other web articles with really no facts that can be checked and verified.

The Forbes articles uses a decline of a million sold devices as claim that iPhone sales are rapidly declining due to price. But if you look at it based on financial years instead of calendar years, the sales went up:

2014: 169.22
2015: 231.22
2016: 211.88
2017: 216.76

Thanks for pointing that out. The Forbes article I used was for calendar years specifically. Another poster posted the same numbers as you claiming the Forbes numbers were simply wrong, but I didn't realize s/he was posting fiscal year numbers.

Anyhow, my take of the Forbes article was not that they were saying there is a rapid unit sales decline, but that a yoy decline existed and the iPhone X wasn't helping much to fix things as some had hoped.

Regardless of this discussion though, I for one will simply not buy one if the OLED model starts at CAD$1319 like it does now. The value just isn't there IMO.

 

[Baymowe335]

I guess time will tell. I'm betting on a price decrease on the entry level OLED model come fall. Some may think it's due just to decreased component costs, and some may think it's just due to price gouging of early adopters, and some like me think it's both of the above along with a component of Apple expecting higher unit sales but not getting them due to high price.

I suspect they could increase revenues even further with a price cut, as many more customers would be inclined to make the jump up from the low end model, and they'd get other customers as well. Like I've mentioned elsewhere, I (along with a lot of people) simply will refuse to buy an entry level OLED model at $999 (or CAD$1319 here), regardless of whether or not I can afford it.

I’m going to go with Apple On this one. They just understand pricing and their customers far better than we do and with increasing sales every year, how can you argue.

 

[ani4ani]

Wait a minute. Apple having less demand for OLED panels gave Samsung more bargaining power on the price of the OLED panels they sell? I'm pretty sure that less demand usually means the buyer has more bargaining power? Supply and demand and all that jazz....

Apple secured a price based on making a commitment on volume; they didn’t fulfil their commitment and so the lose some of the discount they negotiated...quite normal, the seller has more bargaining power in these situations.

 

[LordVic]

if anyone things that Apple is going to drop prices on the next iPhone X because it costs them less to manufacture doesn't understand Apple.

They will take those added margins to wallstreet and boast about how amazing their margins are. it's exactly what they've done for juts about every iPhone.

 

[jlozoya]

Couldn't have said it better myself. I've gotten the newest iphone every 2 years but thought twice about the X this year because of the price and decided to hold onto it.

I still haven't gotten my battery replaced yet, I'm really looking forward to doing it soon though. I'll probably get a new phone this fall (mainly for a better camera), but the 6S has continued to go strong.

This has been my experience, as well! I have upgraded EVERY year sbut will be keeping my 7 Plus for the 2018 models, at least.

 

[EugW]

I’m going to go with Apple On this one. They just understand pricing and their customers far better than we do and with increasing sales every year, how can you argue.

You mean like iPod HiFi where nobody actually bought it? Or how about the original iPhone pricing, where they dropped prices by $200 after just a few months?

It's not as if Apple always prices things well when they first come out. I don't think the iPhone X pricing was as off kilter as those, but it's still out of whack in my opinion and in the opinion of many others.

 

[Baymowe335]

You mean like iPod HiFi where nobody actually bought it? Or how about the original iPhone pricing, where they dropped prices by $200 after just a few months?

It's not as if Apple always prices things well when they first come out. I don't think the iPhone X pricing was as off kilter as those, but it's still out of whack in my opinion and in the opinion of many others.

We aren't talking about a device that just came out. That's my WHOLE point. Pretty sure they have a handle on iPhone pricing. We are 10+ years in and they sold $62B in iPhones last Q. You would agree the first iPhone ever made would be different than today's iPhones? People didn't even know what an iPhone was then or what a smartphone like it could really do.

 

[macbeta]

...But only cost 20% more!

 

[EugW]

We aren't talking about a device that just came out. That's my WHOLE point. Pretty sure they have a handle on iPhone pricing. We are 10+ years in and they sold $62B in iPhones last Q. You would agree the first iPhone ever made would be different than today's iPhones? People didn't even know what an iPhone was then or what a smartphone like it could really do.

That's why I say the pricing of the iPhone X isn't as off kilter as the original iPhone but I still think it's somewhat off kilter... so as many others here do, I believe they will drop the pricing in September.

 

[curtvaughan]

It's a business, you either buy the products from Apple or from competition. I look at the platform overall (I am iOS only for my computing needs) and I still feel Apple provide the best platform when it comes to performance, security, privacy, ecosystem, apps, and support. Until competition provides something better in those areas, I will stick with Apple. I don't particularly care for ports (wireless), headphone jacks (bluetooth), glued in memory (no memory issues, stopped doing my own repairs years ago), lack of upgradability (same thing, moved on, more important things to worry about), sneaky updates (they increased the longevity of those phones, but should have been transparent) or pricing (see MacBook Air introduction, same exact thing, Apple has never been cheap). I still see the same value in the Apple platform as I did from the beginning. That's my decision. If you don't like it, apparently there are a ton of good options out there. But yes, no one on here cares if you change platforms or buy a Pixel. Apparently, neither does Apple, they still have a ton of customers that are moving in the direction of using wireless solutions and don't care about manually updating their devices. I guess it's time for you to move on.

You are right, and I have "moved on". I took delivery of a new iMac, nice machine, about two weeks ago. It will likely be my last Apple purchase unless they change their tune about ports, upgradeability and pricing. Alternatives to the messaging interoperability, etc., are coming to the fore. I now use Signal instead of iMessage. It works on both Apple and other devices - PCs, Androids, whether Linux or Microsoft. I'm now typing this on a Dell XPS-13 running MX17 Linux. It has a Signal encrypted messaging application which is synchronized with my Android V20, my iPhone 6S+ (best iPhone ever for price and features), and my other PCs, as well as my new iMac. So yes, it is time for me to bravely move on. And save some major bucks for better return.
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Dude...look at the numbers. The loyalty for iOS is at an all time high. These people do not switch to Android. This is 2018 information. The number of iOS and overall Apple devices is growing, not shrinking. They just sold 83M phones in 14 weeks for $62B. Customer satisfaction are at all time highs. These are facts from the earnings call, not my "feeling" or my opinion.

People DO pay a premium ($800 on average) for an iOS device. They also stay with that device at 90% levels. Remember, don't buy into the "Android loyalty" number because that's at an OS level, not a single device. Android is basically everything NOT Apple. It's almost entirely driven by low cost Android phones bought by people who don't care who makes it.

Well, I switched to Android about a year ago for my newest phone. I still have a 6S Plus, but my Android (LG V20) has given me great service, with an astounding sound system. The main difference with the iphone that I've noticed - iOS is much more efficient with power usage. My V20 battery goes down about twice the rate of the iPhone, especially when idle.
[doublepost=1521679279][/doublepost]

What is reasonable?

Around $800

Never in a million years will I pay £1000 for a phone. I had debated buying an iPhone 8 however I decided that even that was far too expensive. It's a phone ffs, so I let the sensible head win and I sold my iPhone 6 for £150. My son had bought a Pixel 2 as he was bored and fed up with iPhones so I put another £150 to it and bought his year old iPhone 7. But another iPhone after this... nah, I'm done with Apple now I think. They are just starting to take the p... with their pricing so I think it's time to seriously consider moving to Android next time around, and I don't mean Samsung with their own stupidity in following Apples pricing ideas. There are some great phones for £300-£500 now and probably a lot more by the time I'm ready to change phones.

Buy an LG V20, year old model, at a great price half of what you'd pay for an iPhone 8. You won't regret it.

 

[AFDoc]

holy fragmentation. The 5.8 iPhone will have lower end specs than the 6.1? That is strange.

All I know is that I won't be buying another iPhone until they have one available for purchase in the 5.8-6.1 range, with 4GB of memory. I don't care whether it's an OLED or LCD screen. Performance + 5.8-6.1 size range + dual camera are the things that matter to me.

Why do people like yourself cry about fragmentation? Buy what you want... it doesn't matter if there is 1 model or 20.

 

[lambertjohn]

Here's a novel idea: Apple could just keep on making the current iPhone X and simply charge ten percent less.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Here's a novel idea: Apple could just keep on making the current iPhone X and simply charge ten percent less.

Yes, based on past history, the flagship 2017 iPhone would drop $100 and sell for $900 when the new 2018 model comes out this fall. But it has been rumored for months that Apple will instead retire the 2017 X when it introduces the 2018 X.2 model.

That the 2018 X refresh could be priced below the 6.1” LCD model is typical Digitimes rubbish, but $900 feels right to me. I think the 6.1” iPhone 9 Plus will price at $749-799. $749 if the single rear camera/lack of 3D Touch rumor is true.

The A12 will be a significant upgrade over the A11 if it’s built on TSMC’s 7nm node, including a potential reduction in power consumption of 40% with this node. (Apple will of course allocate a portion of power budget savings to increased performance, probably by adding to the core count, increasing operating frequency, and upping the performance of the neural processor.)

FaceID 2 is likely but whether that includes any upgrade to TrueDepth hardware is anyone’s guess... 50/50 chance? But an upgrade to the dual core neural engine’s current 600 billion ops per sec is obvious.

The display may have some small year over year improvements; a smalller notch is rumored but I don’t have that much confidence in that, I’m guessing it stays the current size for 2018. Both the 5.8” and 6.5” will have the same sized notch, meaning the 6.5” will have larger “ears”, so more usable space.

Some think the price of the 5.8” stays at $1,000, but that’s not going to help Apple build volume and mainstream OLED. And with the larger display 6.1” LCD model (which will also have FaceID) selling somewhere around $750, I just don’t see there’s room to charge an extra $250 for a smaller 5.8” model, even if it is OLED. I think the 6.5” Plus model will carry a $150 premium, so $1,049... but $999 wouldn’t really surprise me.

 

[ipponrg]

Yes, but I told you why AND iPhone revenue (what matters) is up sharply. They are selling for $800 each now. It was in the $600 range in 2015.

1.3B active devices means unit sales become less and less meaningful. Apple is monetizing the user base and will be viewed as a services company in the future.

This is probably the most hilarious claim you've made in recent days on these forums.

I look forward to the day where iTunes/Match isn't complete trash, Siri works up to par to its competition outside of the Apple ecosystem, and Apple competes with AWS/GCP/Azure. Ok that last one was a faux hope because they would fail miserably at it, but the first 2 are definitely achievable if Apple can figure out how to manage their internal mess.

 

[Baymowe335]

This is probably the most hilarious claim you've made in recent days on these forums.

I look forward to the day where iTunes/Match isn't complete trash, Siri works up to par to its competition outside of the Apple ecosystem, and Apple competes with AWS/GCP/Azure. Ok that last one was a faux hope because they would fail miserably at it, but the first 2 are definitely achievable if Apple can figure out how to manage their internal mess.

It’s even funnier that you are so clueless, you think I wrong.

You might think their services are a mess, but they have 230M paying subscribers to their various services and made over $30B in revenue from services alone in the last four quarters.

With $8.5B in services revenue just last quarter, Apple likely made more profit from services revenue alone than Amazon made in all of 2017.

Again, your perception doesn’t matter. The numbers speak for themselves. The margins Apple makes on services are likely over 60% too. Apple is a consumer products company with a massive services component that is the fastest growing business. iPhone as a service will likely be a reality in the future.

 

[chatin]

Dude...look at the numbers. The loyalty for iOS is at an all time high. These people do not switch to Android.

I know people switching to Android in droves. I haven't activated a movie on iTunes in years because of accessibility issues. AAPL is underwater for the year. Apparently, the stock is not waterproof.