See I told you guys I wasnt the only one to notice this [how these gamers hate Apple]

[Stirolak123]

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=80921

I wasnt the only one who apparently noticed almost all comments on ign, kotaku, joystiq, etc. Sites when the ipad or any apple device was mentioned complete ignorance, dislike, writing off, and just negativity by these "real" gamers. Even when the topics arent gaming related or talk about an idevice game on these sites they just call the ipad a waste of $ and other crap (they probably dont know how to use one).

They spend similar amounts for new gaming consols or portables with $50 games on them as well while we get all kinds of spinoff games, ports, and surprising support from big companies like capcom, ea, sega, and even old school emulators like amiga coming out (check toucharcade front page). we are even getting joystiq addons (check fling or icade). When will these people ever learn? Plus we'll probably have onlive anyway which is console and pc cloud gaming. And recently some amiga remake got announced and even jeff minter is interestedin the platform (already made a game and working on others) and recently Crytek.

If you want more proof and dont believe me or that thread read the gamespot iphone section:
http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27556016&tag=topics;title

http://www.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=27555239&tag=topics;title

Just constant negativity.

 

[ZilogZ80]

Agreed there is no point reading any of those sites if you want objectivity. That is why we have Touch Arcade though.

They do have a point however. Whilst there are some genuinely great iOS games, and a lot of very entertaining 'casual' games, even the biggest Apple fan must concede that 95% of all iOS games are utterly terrible. There is just so much rubbish out there!

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=80921we are even getting joystiq addons (check fling or icade) ... And recently some amiga remake got announced and even jeff minter is interestedin the platform

For the record though I think the amiga (and most other) emulator(s) is a terrible idea. I will almost certainly be getting the icade though when it is out in the UK - it looks awesome. Likewise great news about Jeff Minter. His first game (Minotaur Rescue) is a blast. Things are looking better & better for iPad gaming.

 

[Stirolak123]

If you look at any homebrew or indy gaming scene and that includes steam, 95% of games are terrible but that 95% is good for most people who arent gamers or want something fast and portable like doodle jump. Dooodle jump may be terrible to you but has lasting appeal and addiciveness that for instance pc flight simulators or wargames dont have (its a pain just sitting down to play hem or learn all the commands and tutorials even after the hearts of iron 3 tutorial i still didnt know what to do). But take gems like these that comes out of the blue every other day on the ipad and for almost free:

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?threadid=81023
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=81112
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=76576

What other platform has that? How many social, mmorpg, or other such games do other portable consoles or nintendo has ever made? The ipad games get updated constant.y and many are very sodial and interactive. Or how many adventure games do they have like myst, riven, 7th guest, monkey island, the browser based sarien.ipad.net, etc. Plus that icade cabinet and the fling might fix the control issues for other genres. The toucharcade preview said it felt like playing nova 2 on the xbox.

Do you remember shining force on the saturn and dragon force. Those kinds of games are coming out on ipad with online play. Strategy, rts, and other hybrids. Nobody ever bagged on the saturn because it didnt excel in every genre yet imo it wasthe best console of that generation.

 

[ZilogZ80]

If you look at any homebrew or indy gaming scene and that includes steam, 95% of games are terrible

Right. But you were comparing the iPad with mainstream consoles/handhelds, not with homebrew/steam. It is not surprising that "real gamers" rip on the iPad when most of the games available are simplistic, derivative rubbish.

Dooodle jump may be terrible to you but has lasting appeal and addiciveness that for instance pc flight simulators or wargames dont have

Doodle Jump is addictive and it is easy to play - but more lasting appeal than Flight Sim or a decent wargame? Utter rubbish. It is the sort of game I will play constantly for a couple of weeks and then only come back to very occasionally.

But take gems like these that comes out of the blue every other day on the ipad and for almost free:

http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?threadid=81023
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=81112
http://forums.toucharcade.com/showthread.php?t=76576

I only have the last game you link to (Viking Lords). It is a good game, but a poor shadow of the boardgame it was ripped-off from. I have not played it again since completing it.

How many social, mmorpg, or other such games do other portable consoles or nintendo has ever made? The ipad games get updated constant.y and many are very sodial and interactive.

'social' games and freemium games are not proper games. They are just timesinks. Yes, I am including WoW in this category too. If you have that much time to waste on something so pointless, you need a proper hobby. Or a job.

Or how many adventure games do they have like myst, riven, 7th guest, monkey island, the browser based sarien.ipad.net, etc. Plus that icade cabinet and the fling might fix the control issues for other genres. The toucharcade preview said it felt like playing nova 2 on the xbox.

Do you remember shining force on the saturn and dragon force. Those kinds of games are coming out on ipad with online play. Strategy, rts, and other hybrids.

I don't want you to feel like I am just ripping on you continually so I will agree with these points! iPad gaming is getting better, for sure, but right now it is a very immature platform and that is why people are being so hard on it. Genuinely good games are coming out but at the moment they are few and far between.

 

[Stirolak123]

Its also better at puzzle games look at world of goo or the line hd. And nintendo games, handheld or otherwise wont ever compare to computer games in terms of depth either. But to tell the truth unlike you I hate those hecagon war games or turn based games as they take too much time to learn and sitdown and play. Even age of empires 2 would tske hours jsut to plsy one game. That has always been a peoblem and why pc gMing is dying. It takes too much time investment for one game.

But also the nintenso and sony handhwlds will never have elder scrolls or sins of the solar empire like games unlike the ios devices and ipad. Games like ascendancy will never be ported or accepted on those platforms nor will they get stuff like aralon or galaxy on fire 2.

Reread my posts on this thread and realize all the genres I mentioned. Point and click, adventure, sandbox space, sandbox western rpg, puzzle, etc. How cn you be hard on a system with such cheap prices for superior experiences at least in those genres? Not superior to pc but to portable game systems that always have been dumping grounds and inferior to pc and console anyway.

The problem is too many of these devs make games with uiversal oriphone in mind instead of just the ipad. That probably wont change for a few years if the tablets keeo growing that is.

 

[Piggie]

Oh how I wish Apple could do a deal with Nintendo to bring some of their top titles to the iPad platform.

A new 3D Zelda game (not top down 2D) like the N64 (Wind Waker), GameCube (the one on the sea) , Wii.

Such a shame I cannot ever see that happening.

 

[ZilogZ80]

Oh how I wish Apple could do a deal with Nintendo to bring some of their top titles to the iPad platform.

A new 3D Zelda game (not top down 2D) like the N64 (Wind Waker), GameCube (the one on the sea) , Wii.

Such a shame I cannot ever see that happening.

I really, really want to play Advance Wars on the iPad!
Here's hoping the DS 3d fails miserably so that Nintendo do a Sony & start releasing titles for other platforms!!

 

[Piggie]

I really, really want to play Advance Wars on the iPad!
Here's hoping the DS 3d fails miserably so that Nintendo do a Sony & start releasing titles for other platforms!!

Indeed, I mean really the iPad is a super luxury DS but with the screens joined together.

I don't really want DS games to be honest. Gamecube games I'd love. Only some titles

The reason I loved Zelda Ocarina of time on the N64, of which I still have 2 consoles in box's is the superb depth and storyline to the game. I'd still rate this as the best game I have ever played.

That's my personal grumble at the moment with almost all the iPad games I've bought. I buy them, and 90% of them I never play them after the 1st evening, I just can't be bothered. I don't know why. I suppose there is no evolving story to lead me into it. Hopefully in time this will all change. It's just a shame Nintendo still makes hardware, if they concentrated on software and sold to the 360, PS3, PSP, PC, MAC, iPAd etc market, you would think they'd make a bomb as it's software that they do so well.

 

[ZilogZ80]

The reason I loved Zelda Ocarina of time on the N64, of which I still have 2 consoles in box's is the superb depth and storyline to the game. I'd still rate this as the best game I have ever played.

A good reason not to port it to iPad, I would say. Why ruin a classic by changing it to a touch game or shoe-horning N64 controls onto an iPad?

That's my personal grumble at the moment with almost all the iPad games I've bought. I buy them, and 90% of them I never play them after the 1st evening, I just can't be bothered. I don't know why. I suppose there is no evolving story to lead me into it. Hopefully in time this will all change.

This is my point exactly. Currently there are only a handful of truly great games that really grab you long-term. It is still very early days though and things are definitely getting better!

 

[Piggie]

A good reason not to port it to iPad, I would say. Why ruin a classic by changing it to a touch game or shoe-horning N64 controls onto an iPad?


This is my point exactly. Currently there are only a handful of truly great games that really grab you long-term. It is still very early days though and things are definitely getting better!

Oh I fully agree about the control.

My views are that some games are superb using touch screen controls. Something like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope or Slice It, and other such games, the whole game works due to the control method of dragging on the screen. It's superb.

One you start putting a fake joystick or fake fire buttons onto the screen you have failed and are making the best of a bad job.
Admittedly the Devs don't have any choice at the moment, but the iPad is crying out big time for either Apple or a 3rd party to develop a nice lightweight proper bluetooth controller so that the iPad can become the best mobile gaming device ever.

 

[ZilogZ80]

My views are that some games are superb using touch screen controls. Something like Angry Birds or Cut the Rope or Slice It, and other such games, the whole game works due to the control method of dragging on the screen. It's superb.

One you start putting a fake joystick or fake fire buttons onto the screen you have failed and are making the best of a bad job.
Admittedly the Devs don't have any choice at the moment, but the iPad is crying out big time for either Apple or a 3rd party to develop a nice lightweight proper bluetooth controller so that the iPad can become the best mobile gaming device ever.

I think the developers are going to have to go back to the drawing board and design games from the ground up for the iPad. It will involve challenging peoples' assumptions of how games are played. For example, Infinity Blade attracted a lot of criticism because there was no free-roaming. But this is precisely why it worked so well - to quote you, there were no "fake joystick or fake fire buttons". Similarly, Rage was another example - an FPS without the inelegance of fake buttons. Neither game was perfect by any means but I think both were a big step in the right direction.

Of course, some games are a perfect fit already - the ones you mentioned, plus a myriad of puzzle, board and strategy games. These are the sorts of games I want to see on the iPad - where controlling them by touch just feels natural.
We just need some forward-thinking devs to combine great controls/interface with awesome gameplay and a compelling storyline - not too much to ask is it!?

 

[henry2]

iam so glad that i only play the simple basic games of chess and few other board games and cards games on the ipad as a way to kill some time here and there

to me i allways found it funny when a gamer goes what type of computer and you say apple they get that look of just bite into a lemon look on there face at the time..

 

[ZilogZ80]

iam so glad that i only play the simple basic games of chess and few other board games and cards games on the ipad as a way to kill some time here and there

to me i allways found it funny when a gamer goes what type of computer and you say apple they get that look of just bite into a lemon look on there face at the time..

Actually this is one area where the iPad really wipes the floor with all other consoles/handheld gaming devices - you would never see a console with a strong chess AI.

 

[Piggie]

I think the developers are going to have to go back to the drawing board and design games from the ground up for the iPad. It will involve challenging peoples' assumptions of how games are played. For example, Infinity Blade attracted a lot of criticism because there was no free-roaming. But this is precisely why it worked so well - to quote you, there were no "fake joystick or fake fire buttons". Similarly, Rage was another example - an FPS without the inelegance of fake buttons. Neither game was perfect by any means but I think both were a big step in the right direction.

Of course, some games are a perfect fit already - the ones you mentioned, plus a myriad of puzzle, board and strategy games. These are the sorts of games I want to see on the iPad - where controlling them by touch just feels natural.
We just need some forward-thinking devs to combine great controls/interface with awesome gameplay and a compelling storyline - not too much to ask is it!?

I admire your enthusiasm, but I can't see myself how this is possible.

If you wish to play a game where you control a character on screen who is running, jumping, climbing obstacles. Perhaps there is something that needs perfect timing, I can't imagine a control system which means you swiping about on the screens surface will be any good.

On a console you are looking at the screen, perhaps through the eye's of your character this is not when you want to have your hands on the screen.

Yes, you can stick it on rails, or you could do a left swipe and your character turns left of a forward swipe then they move forward, but it's a very unnatural way to move around in a 3D world.

As I say, for same games, yes, it's perfect, the best control system ever.

It would be like someone saying lets take away the steering wheel of your car and you can swipe left and right to move the car. Yes you could do it, but you would not have any real feeling of control or feedback from the vehicle.

Use the best tools for the job. don't try and force the wrong tools onto the wrong type of job. I don't see why anyone should thing it's bad to have a joystick controller. It's not an admission of defeat or anything. It's just about what's best for what you are doing.

No one input method is best for everything, in the same way that a digital joystick is not great for driving, you want something analogue, or a game like breakout ideally has a fast paddle controller so you can move across the screen in a split second.

Best tool for the job

 

[Blakjack]

I just want nintendo to start porting some of their original nintendo games over to iOS. I'm waiting on the original Mario game. Ohh how much fun that would be on my iPad. It wouldn't hurt their sales. It's not like the are selling the original nintendo anymore.

Wouldn it be a good way for nintendo to start making some change off of some of their old titles. I would pay 10 bucks for the original Mario game for my iPad right now.

 

[Adibobea9]

As an avid gamer that "plays video games in (my) basement all day" I can tell you that the iOS apps are pretty pathetic when compared to the majority of handheld and console games. The lack of buttons is the main problem, but the freedom to develop any app without much quality control from Apple is another reason it is cluttered with crap.

I will admit that some games would be better suited on the iPad, such as strategy or puzzle, and it is also true that Nintendo and others have some really crappy games and charge too much for the content. However, overall you will find more depth, better controls, more engrossing stories, and better gameplay and polish on the other systems.

Developers need to focus on great gameplay with unique ideas for the iPad to take off and quit trying to port games over that were built around a different control scheme. I am not buying an iPad for games, but to use it as a tool and video device…

 

[Piggie]

As an avid gamer that "plays video games in (my) basement all day" I can tell you that the iOS apps are pretty pathetic when compared to the majority of handheld and console games. The lack of buttons is the main problem, but the freedom to develop any app without much quality control from Apple is another reason it is cluttered with crap.

I will admit that some games would be better suited on the iPad, such as strategy or puzzle, and it is also true that Nintendo and others have some really crappy games and charge too much for the content. However, overall you will find more depth, better controls, more engrossing stories, and better gameplay and polish on the other systems.

Developers need to focus on great gameplay with unique ideas for the iPad to take off and quit trying to port games over that were built around a different control scheme. I am not buying an iPad for games, but to use it as a tool and video device…

Indeed, but it's hardly Apple's fault Apart from not making a game controller!

There are really only two, well 3 other issues:

1: Spec of the hardware, well, the iPad ain't no 360 or PS3 but I'd imagine it's way better than a N64 so that fits my "Zelda Ocarina of Time" fine

2: Price of games, and this may be one of the biggest problems at the moment, the iPad games market now is not ready for full priced titles. Ask $40 for a game and people would fall over in shock.

3: Getting the major players to write for it, when they are dedicating themselves to the big consoles.

Perhaps you can think of some more?

 

[Stirolak123]

As an avid gamer that "plays video games in (my) basement all day" I can tell you that the iOS apps are pretty pathetic when compared to the majority of handheld and console games. The lack of buttons is the main problem, but the freedom to develop any app without much quality control from Apple is another reason it is cluttered with crap.

I will admit that some games would be better suited on the iPad, such as strategy or puzzle, and it is also true that Nintendo and others have some really crappy games and charge too much for the content. However, overall you will find more depth, better controls, more engrossing stories, and better gameplay and polish on the other systems.

Developers need to focus on great gameplay with unique ideas for the iPad to take off and quit trying to port games over that were built around a different control scheme. I am not buying an iPad for games, but to use it as a tool and video device…

Well why cant the devs require or redommend ipas users to use the stylus then like thr pogo? Thoee wouldnt obstruct the screen view would they? They couls than make zelda ds ripoffs or something new. Look at gameloft they just announced such a game. Plus, the icade looks like a cooler control method than any console ive seen.

 

[gkarris]

They spend similar amounts for new gaming consols or portables with $50 games on them as well while we get all kinds of spinoff games, ports, and surprising support from big companies like capcom, ea, sega, and even old school emulators like amiga coming out (check toucharcade front page). we are even getting joystiq addons (check fling or icade). When will these people ever learn? But hey, if they enjoy spending $30 for crappy on the go nintendo games? Plus we'll probably have onlive anyway which is console and pc cloud gaming. And recently some amiga remake got announced and even jeff minter is interestedin the platform (already made a game and working on others) and recently Crytek.

Hey, that's all great - until they decide to shut your game off...

 

[ZilogZ80]

If you wish to play a game where you control a character on screen who is running, jumping, climbing obstacles. Perhaps there is something that needs perfect timing, I can't imagine a control system which means you swiping about on the screens surface will be any good.

On a console you are looking at the screen, perhaps through the eye's of your character this is not when you want to have your hands on the screen.

Yes, you can stick it on rails, or you could do a left swipe and your character turns left of a forward swipe then they move forward, but it's a very unnatural way to move around in a 3D world.

This is my point exactly. There is no point trying to make the same kind of games you would play on an XBox or Nintendo DS. The iPad is a totally unique platform so game developers need to think outside of the box and come up with some totally unique content.

It would be like someone saying lets take away the steering wheel of your car and you can swipe left and right to move the car. Yes you could do it, but you would not have any real feeling of control or feedback from the vehicle.

If someone took away the steering wheel from my car, then I expect the car would be able to drive itself. Then there would be no need for awkward swiping - instead I could concentrate on shooting bad guys out the window, etc.

Use the best tools for the job. don't try and force the wrong tools onto the wrong type of job. I don't see why anyone should thing it's bad to have a joystick controller. It's not an admission of defeat or anything. It's just about what's best for what you are doing.

It's not a bad thing, just a step backwards. This is how games used to be controlled. I can play on my 360 or PS3 or DS if I want some retro action using an outdated joystick + buttons iPad game devs should be looking forwards instead.

Example: Real Racing. I'm not saying that this is the best racing game of all time (cos it ain't!) but the control method is more natural and appropriate to this kind of game than anything on any current console. Give it a couple of years and I'm sure we'll see some awesome racing games on iPad.

 

[Piggie]

1: For many types of game, where the screen is my eye view into a 3D world. I do not want to use my hands on the screen blocking my view. I want the whole screen to just be my view on the world, with nothing in my way.

2: I do not want to have to wave my screen around at funny angles when playing many games. I wish to have the screen at a nice angle in front of me.

I cannot abide racing games where you have to lean the screen around to steer very badly, or lean it forward and back to speed up or brake.

I don't accept that as well as doing great games that use gesture controls on the screen, or things like card/board games where it's 100% suitable to be using the screen as the controller.

That the iPad should be regarded as incapable of playing other games. Why in say 2 or 3 more years, should the iPad4 or 5 not be playing Crysis in the same way a high end PC does now?

 

[ZilogZ80]

1: For many types of game, where the screen is my eye view into a 3D world. I do not want to use my hands on the screen blocking my view. I want the whole screen to just be my view on the world, with nothing in my way.

2: I do not want to have to wave my screen around at funny angles when playing many games. I wish to have the screen at a nice angle in front of me.

I cannot abide racing games where you have to lean the screen around to steer very badly, or lean it forward and back to speed up or brake.

These are not problems with the iPad - they are problems with you! It sounds like you just want to play normal consoles or PC games. That's fine, but that isn't what the iPad is about (nor should it be). Have you actually played Real Racing? You don't lean forward or back to accelerate/brake. The controls are in fact excellent.

That the iPad should be regarded as incapable of playing other games. Why in say 2 or 3 more years, should the iPad4 or 5 not be playing Crysis in the same way a high end PC does now?

Except that this would be completely pointless. If you want to play Crysis, play it now (on a PC). The successful iPad games of the future are going to be different kinds of games, not just the same thing we have now re-hashed over and over again.

 

[Piggie]

These are not problems with the iPad - they are problems with you! It sounds like you just want to play normal consoles or PC games. That's fine, but that isn't what the iPad is about (nor should it be). Have you actually played Real Racing? You don't lean forward or back to accelerate/brake. The controls are in fact excellent.


Except that this would be completely pointless. If you want to play Crysis, play it now (on a PC). The successful iPad games of the future are going to be different kinds of games, not just the same thing we have now re-hashed over and over again.

Perhaps you are not understanding. I'm saying the iPad should be able to do both. Play touch enabled games and just be a screen to play what we would call normal games.

I don't see why it should be tied down to only be capable of only 1 type. It should be open to playing everything.

Crysis "type" games then

I guess you are not going to admit, that for some games genre's a good old hand held controller with real buttons would be better?

I just feel, give us a bluetooth controller OPTION please Apple, and then everyone can enjoy every type of game.

A dev can write a game, and then give the option to the user of on screen controls or handheld controller controls if you have one.

Make it the best at everything.

 

[matt90036]

Infinity Blade attracted a lot of criticism because there was no free-roaming. But this is precisely why it worked so well - to quote you, there were no "fake joystick or fake fire buttons". Similarly, Rage was another example - an FPS without the inelegance of fake buttons. Neither game was perfect by any means but I think both were a big step in the right direction.

Don't get me started on infinity blade and rage and the railing system. This is one of the worst directions that developers went into. Take a look at nova 2 and how it is not on rails and how well it works on iPad. Rails are for lazy developers and this precisely why so many hardcore gamers hate gaming on iPad.
IPad is not fit for hardcore gamers but more of casual kind. There is huge market for real gamers and they want a tablet device as well. Maybe android or playbook developers will do a better job. I am keeping my options open.

 

[ZilogZ80]

Perhaps you are not understanding. I'm saying the iPad should be able to do both. Play touch enabled games and just be a screen to play what we would call normal games.

I don't see why it should be tied down to only be capable of only 1 type. It should be open to playing everything.

Crysis "type" games then

I guess you are not going to admit, that for some games genre's a good old hand held controller with real buttons would be better?

I just feel, give us a bluetooth controller OPTION please Apple, and then everyone can enjoy every type of game.

A dev can write a game, and then give the option to the user of on screen controls or handheld controller controls if you have one.

Make it the best at everything.

No, I do understand your point, I am just (gently) disagreeing with it!
I am offering you a vision of the future, but if you cannot or will not accept it then that is OK we will just have to agree to disagree!

For the record, I will definitely be getting an iCade when available, which I believe is the sort of bluetooth controller you are looking for. I will be getting it cos it looks like a fun gizmo, not because I think it is really worthwhile having such a thing for the iPad. (I can play all these sorts of games fine already on my Mac or console).

(I also do agree with you that there are definitely types of games for which a regular joystick/buttons are superior - I just don't think those types of games have any place on the iPad). But, as you say, to each his own. I am certainly not against people having options and doing their own thing.