See I told you guys I wasnt the only one to notice this [how these gamers hate Apple]

[ZilogZ80]

Don't get me started on infinity blade and rage and the railing system. This is one of the worst directions that developers went into. Take a look at nova 2 and how it is not on rails and how well it works on iPad. Rails are for lazy developers and this precisely why so many hardcore gamers hate gaming on iPad.

Don't get me wrong - both games are deeply flawed. I just think they are a step in the right direction. Yes, Nova 2 works fine. But what is the point of a standard FPS on the iPad when there are so many much, much better games I could be playing on my consoles? I'm not going to waste time playing a sub-par game just because it is on my iPad. I want to play the best game on the best platform.

FYI, rails are not just for lazy developers. Check out Panzer Dragoon on the Saturn and you will see what I mean. You do not get much more 'hardcore' than that.

 

[wikoogle]

The hate is unwarranted.

Nevertheless, I'm a gamer. I love iOS, but I absolutely hate gaming on it.

Gaming honestly sucks without actual physical buttons and analog nubs to interact with. You guys don't know what you're missing out on.

Yes, there's touch based games like Flight Control, Angry Birds etc that casual users are fine with. But gamers don't like games like that. We want to play games like NOVA, Street Fighter, Modern Combat, Mario Kart and Super Mario. You may think those games play fine on iOS. But for those of us who have been gaming for a while, those types of games just don't feel good to play or control very well on a touch screen. They feel very imprecise, and unsatisfying to control.

So it's not happening until someone over at apple has the foresight to make a official Apple Controller Shell that adds dual analog sticks, a dpad, buttons and triggers to the iPhone to go along with the beefed up CPU, GPU. iPhone gaming desperately needs better controls. Games like NOVA, Modern Warfare and Nazi Zombies are fantastic, but made near unplayable due to how slippery glass is to try to use as a control interface, and how hard it is to control a joystick with a touch screen. A simple optional controller shell would singlehandedly help the iPhone dominate the portable gaming market. The Call of Duty franchise on consoles alone generated 3 BILLION in revenue so far, the dual analog shooter market is a huge market to tap into.

I think a Controller Shell that Apple supports. It should support this fully because it is a fact that the iPhone in terms of polygon pushing can in fact go toe to toe with the best gaming handhelds out there. So given such an accessory to appeal to hardcore gamers that love dual analog stick shooters, it would take iPhone gaming to a whole another level of awesome. The DS has sold 150 million plus copies, and hundreds of millions of $30 games, think about how big a market that is to be able to tap into. Update: Turns out that such a device is already being worked on by fans the http://controllerorbust.com/ and also the iControlPad. Unfortunately, Controller or Bust/icontrolpad needs Apple's approval. Apple should fully support them. It's all that stands between the iPhone and a real full blown gaming system.

Here is controllerorbust's excellent mockup...

Here's another way to implement gaming controls (replace the keyboard in the awesome "Keyboard Buddy Case" with gaming controls and dual analog sticks)...

 

[ZilogZ80]

The hate is unwarranted.

I can't actually detect any hate in this thread?
Everyone is being very grown up and putting their points across in a polite and thoughtful manner (quite a novelty on this forum I know! ).

We want to play games like NOVA, Street Fighter, Modern Combat, Mario Kart and Super Mario. You may think those games play fine on iOS. But for those of us who have been gaming for a while, those types of games just don't feel good to play or control very well on a touch screen. They feel very imprecise, and unsatisfying to control.

Agreed that if you want to play these sorts of games you need physical controls. I have nothing against anyone bringing out an attachment such as you describe! I just think that with a brand-new platform like iPad, devs should be concentrating on brand-new styles of games that actually fit the platform. There is no reason at all that a fully touch/tilt game cannot have great depth, gameplay and story - it just hasn't been made yet!

 

[henry2]

Actually this is one area where the iPad really wipes the floor with all other consoles/handheld gaming devices - you would never see a console with a strong chess AI.

i find that most hardcore gamers do not like the socalled ipad for some of the socalled advance thinking games i like where you have to learn to think in three diff ways and level when playing them ..

we play chess on a multi level six levelfull sized chess boards on a stand at home that set up in diiff hieghts and prostion to play inside the house and it funny to watch people try to think of moves in a way that does not make sense to a normal one board game player ..

we walk by and move a piece around the board all day long when we are there intill the other side is checkmate or we are checkmate as you will know in the game of chess ..most of the people who do play have learned to think in ways that goes outside the normal way of thinking ..

one of the biggest reason why i play chess is because it helps me think when iam trying to figure out a problem at work to make my mind work outside the normal box and move into a zone area of thinking when dealing with a problem at the time..

 

[Stirolak123]

The wii has mostly on rail shooters as well instead of real fps games. Look at how they made resident evil, deas space, and all those other conversions for it from the other consoles outside a few examples like goldeneye and call of duty. And the wii is all about motion control and doesnt utilize traditional buttons either. Just because you guys dont like interactive games doesnt mean most other people dont. Some people like line drawing games or motion controls for example more than xbox controllers. Plus the wii is even more casual and the games cost more. It is filled with mario party games while the idevices have all kinds of genres.

 

[Stirolak123]

i find that most hardcore gamers do not like the socalled ipad for some of the socalled advance thinking games i like where you have to learn to think in three diff ways and level when playing them ..

we play chess on a multi level six levelfull sized chess boards on a stand at home that set up in diiff hieghts and prostion to play inside the house and it funny to watch people try to think of moves in a way that does not make sense to a normal one board game player ..

we walk by and move a piece around the board all day long when we are there intill the other side is checkmate or we are checkmate as you will know in the game of chess ..most of the people who do play have learned to think in ways that goes outside the normal way of thinking ..

one of the biggest reason why i play chess is because it helps me think when iam trying to figure out a problem at work to make my mind work outside the normal box and move into a zone area of thinking when dealing with a problem at the time..

But that doesnt explain how these so called gamers support sony and the psp, when the psp which was built for gamers had such a horrendous first gen dpad and all gen analog nub that was almost as bad as playing gameloft touch based stick on the ipad. Your fingers would constantly slide off that thing and plus if you play psp agmes that uze both shoulder buttons your hand will cramp. See every system's first gen device, even ones spexifically built for gaming, never completely dominate in every field.

Zilog, you can call them facebook-type apps but WOW is kind of a time waster with no real goal as well as are some of the most popular games on any system like all mmorpgs. And I think We Rule is better than Nintendo's series of ANimal Crossing. Sega's social Kingdoms whatever its called ain't bad either.

 

[Stirolak123]

delete this mods please I didnt mean to double post again.

 

[MUCKYFINGERS]

I've owned practically every major gaming console since the days of the SNES.

No matter how hard I try to enjoy iOS games with an open mind and all that jazz... I just can't. Most games from established, reputable developers are very poor ports of games on other consoles. The other games from little devs are usually just about as good as any flash game you could find by googling "free flash games."

90% of the games on iOS suck, the last 10% are barely decent.

 

[matt90036]

Yes, there's touch based games like Flight Control, Angry Birds etc that casual users are fine with. But gamers don't like games like that. We want to play games like NOVA, Street Fighter, Modern Combat, Mario Kart and Super Mario. You may think those games play fine on iOS.

you are mentioning games that do play better with actual mouse and keyboard but you do not mention games which would dramatically feel better on ipad than actual computer. here are the examples:
- diablo
- civilization
- star craft, red alert, etc
in each of the above games touching the screen with your finger is much more superior than using a mouse. the problem lies again in lazy developers.
civilization revolution is a disaster, infinity blade is like citiville or farmville to simcity (also disaster for hardcore gamer) and not to mention that there is no starcraft but some red alert that looks like it was made for a 5 year old and not someone serious.

 

[Stirolak123]

I've owned practically every major gaming console since the days of the SNES.

No matter how hard I try to enjoy iOS games with an open mind and all that jazz... I just can't. Most games from established, reputable developers are very poor ports of games on other consoles. The other games from little devs are usually just about as good as any flash game you could find by googling "free flash games."

90% of the games on iOS suck, the last 10% are barely decent.

No offense but most flash games are better than ds, psp, and those wii party games as well. Flash has advanced to do 3d graphics now. Also those steam games could be done in flash as well.

I bet those horrible looking ff and dq remakes by square enix for the ds could be done in flash and look better.

 

[mudslag]

See I told you guys I wasnt the only one to notice this [how these gamers hate Apple]

Someone get this guy a cookie

 

[ZilogZ80]

civilization revolution is a disaster

not entirely true... you may not like it cos it is dumbed down (which is a fair viewpoint) but the iPad version is better to play than all the console versions (Xbox, DS) which proves that occasionally the iPad can beat them at their own game!

 

[Stirolak123]

How are the romance of the three kingdom games for the ipad?

 

[smiddlehurst]

Here's the thing though, this railing against Apple isn't a new thing in the gaming world. Take a look back through the comment system of any gaming web site and focus on the Wii. On Move. On Kinect. On, basically, ANY platform that has even a hint of being 'not for the hardcore'. You'll find the same ranting and raving there.

The simple fact is right now a certain part of the gaming community feels incredibly threatened by so-called casual gamers. Frankly that part tends to be younger gamers who see this as THEIR space and don't like others who they feel are somehow less qualified encroaching into it. Which is, IMO, silly as casual gamers are potentially a massive source of revenue which will, in turn, allow studios to fund multi million dollar hardcore games with less risk in the long run. Plus I'm a firm beleiver in the theory that it doesn't matter whether you play an iOS game once a week or spend 15 hours a day on WoW, we're all gamers at the end of the day. Me, I've been gaming since the C64 days and have all three consoles under the TV as well as a PC upstairs. And yet iOS is a platform I really wouldn't want to do without at this point. It's probably the second most used platform for me after the PC and there's some incredible gaming experiences available.

As for iOS gaming, yeah there's a lot of junk but that's hardly surprising or unique to iOS. Good lord, remember the days of the PS2 and the wave of tat that got released in its later years? The iPad though does have its share of high quality games and it's only going to increase as developers see more and more units being sold. Figure somewhere midway through this year to early next you're going to see some major games hitting as the market increases. Oh, and one more thing to bear in mind, iOS games don't tend to be advertised waaaaaaay in advance like the console or PC world. Even something like NOVA2 had, what, a couple of months hype and that was about it? Heck just loook at Lego Harry Potter, that had virtually no warning and was one of the best bargains of the year (as well as a REALLY good game to boot).

 

[Piggie]

How are you going to persuade a major software company that produces games for say the PS3, 360 or to a lesser extent the Wii and sells games for $30, $40 type prices, that it's good business to put a lot of work into producing an iPad game, and the price level they may have to aim for?

I'm not sure we're quite ready yet. Perhaps the iPad2 will bring the hardware specs forward enough to make it do'able it's then just the market size/price to work out.

 

[ZilogZ80]

How are you going to persuade a major software company that produces games for say the PS3, 360 or to a lesser extent the Wii and sells games for $30, $40 type prices, that it's good business to put a lot of work into producing an iPad game, and the price level they may have to aim for?

I'm not sure we're quite ready yet. Perhaps the iPad2 will bring the hardware specs forward enough to make it do'able it's then just the market size/price to work out.

No, the quality isn't even close for that kind of pricing yet. When it is though (and I think it is inevitable over time) I think we will see major $20-$30 titles from big publishers. They will be priced below console games because of the digital delivery & cos there is no license fee to publish on the iPad as there is with consoles.
I don't think we will ever see an end to the glut of 99c rubbish games but I am sure people will be prepared to spend proper money once the quality is there (e.g. comparable to console titles).

 

[Ingster]

'social' games and freemium games are not proper games. They are just timesinks. Yes, I am including WoW in this category too. If you have that much time to waste on something so pointless, you need a proper hobby. Or a job.

O...K... 1st, I play WoW, i've got a job (Medical Technician) and a hobby (Scout Leader) a lot of people who i know play WoW also have jobs and hobbies.

2nd I like playing freemium games and social games as they are quick and ideal to fill in the few minutes during my commute to and from work (also not bad on a loo break either )

And isnt the defining pooint of 'gaming' to fill the void of time with something, so in essence 'proper gaming' is a big timesink too! But isn't everything a timesink?!?!

 

[ZilogZ80]

O...K... 1st, I play WoW, i've got a job (Medical Technician) and a hobby (Scout Leader) a lot of people who i know play WoW also have jobs and hobbies.

2nd I like playing freemium games and social games as they are quick and ideal to fill in the few minutes during my commute to and from work (also not bad on a loo break either )

And isnt the defining pooint of 'gaming' to fill the void of time with something, so in essence 'proper gaming' is a big timesink too! But isn't everything a timesink?!?!

Yes, of course, your time is your own and you are free to spend it how you choose.
I don't want to get bogged down with semantics because as you quite rightly say playing any game is "gaming". My point really was that you have these social/WoW style games and then you have these other games that are a genuine challenge and require skill to play and/or have a deep, moving story, etc. and it is these latter types of games that will convince "hardcore gamers" to move over to the iPad platform.

 

[Stirolak123]

How are you going to persuade a major software company that produces games for say the PS3, 360 or to a lesser extent the Wii and sells games for $30, $40 type prices, that it's good business to put a lot of work into producing an iPad game, and the price level they may have to aim for?

I'm not sure we're quite ready yet. Perhaps the iPad2 will bring the hardware specs forward enough to make it do'able it's then just the market size/price to work out.

But a lot of people cant afford those types of prices on games, and thsts why consoles and esp pc gamers have such huge piracy rates. If games are cheaper they could make more money overall because ppl wont bother pirating and it would be more of an impulse buy. Plus with digital distribution they dont have to woee about overhead costs.

 

[mudslag]

But a lot of people cant afford those types of prices on games, and thsts why consoles and esp pc gamers have such huge piracy rates. If games are cheaper they could make more money overall because ppl wont bother pirating and it would be more of an impulse buy. Plus with digital distribution they dont have to woee about overhead costs.

Wrong...people pirate because they can. Just look at app piracy, its a buck for many apps, many of which are worth it yet people still pirate because its easy. Cost isnt a factor for many people yet its easier to pirate a game, movie or what ever because its easier for a number of reasons. Cost is a factor for many just pointing out that its not the only reason to pirate.

 

[eye]

Honestly, besides some little puzzle games like Angry Birds, etc., iOS devices are terrible for games. The controls are a joke for 99% of games. It's just no comparison to console gaming.

 

[aluren]

I think controls is the main issue for iOS gaming. Touch gaming is a relatively new genre (for me anyways) and I feel that the controls for most console type games are just horrible because the buttons are on screen, blocking your gaming experience, and it also has a lack of feedback when a "button" is pressed. If only Apple can release a bluetooth compatible controller, then I think it can work.

 

[Stirolak123]

Why would you want to play console like games on it? Just play the unique puzzle or line drawinggames it offers or stuff like point and click adventure games.

 

[mudslag]

Why would you want to play console like games on it? Just play the unique puzzle or line drawinggames it offers or stuff like point and click adventure games.

You have to remember something, just because you dont like the idea of something doesnt mean others feel the same way about that same subject.

 

[aluren]

Why would you want to play console like games on it? Just play the unique puzzle or line drawinggames it offers or stuff like point and click adventure games.

Yeah, and that's why hardcore gamers hate games on iOS devices. Take Gameloft for example, all of their games are exact replicas of console games like Halo, Call of Duty, Uncharted, etc. None of them feels right to me because of the controls. I agree with you that there are games that works great on iDevices such as Angry Birds, Flight Control, or Doodle Jump. But try setting up multiple competitive tournament out of those games. You can't.