Seeing through clearer eyes: on upgrading an Apple Cinema Display with a higher-res LCD

[B S Magnet]

So I was thinking about upcycling at the same time as I was looking at my old A1038, the acrylic 20-inch Apple Cinema Display, in its new home (I did some in-home re-arranging last month, and now both my ailing-but-still-running Power Mac G5 and ACD live in a different room, in a different work desk arrangement).

What especially came to mind was how the wonderful folks on here have completed some pretty impressive display upgrades on their laptops — like upgrading 17-inch PowerBook displays. Even I’ve done a little of this with the XGA display upgrade in the clamshell iBook G3.

But one thing I can’t seem to find much of in the archives are community upgrades to dedicated Apple LCD displays. Despite removing the antiglare sheet from my ACD a few years ago (making the blacks darker and the colours a little more vivid), I’m still limited by a 1680x1050 16:10 resolution. I’d prefer to keep my acrylic display from landfill, obviously, but I’d also like to get even more from it.

Would stepping up the LCD to, say, a 20-inch WUXGA 1920x1200p resolution be feasible in this circumstance? If so, I’m curious as to which bare-LCD models might fit the bill. Without disassembly, I’m not positive on whether the LCD is from, say, LG, Samsung, or another vendor. From the time I did disassemble it for that antiglare removal, I don’t remember whether it was a 30-pin or 40-pin LVDS connector.

SwitchResX doesn’t yield as much info as I might hope:

Spoiler: SwitchResX EDID dump for the ACD20

DDC block report generated by SwitchResX version 3.8.7 for display Apple Cinema Display ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------- RAW DATA ------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------- 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F ----------------------------------------------------- 0 | 00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 06 10 19 92 4E 05 FE 02 1 | 23 0D 01 03 80 2B 1B 78 2E E6 91 A3 54 4A 99 26 2 | 0F 50 54 00 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 3 | 01 01 01 01 01 01 C1 2D 90 A0 60 1A 0C 40 40 20 4 | 33 00 B1 0E 11 00 00 1E 00 00 00 FC 00 41 70 70 5 | 6C 65 20 43 69 6E 65 6D 61 20 00 00 00 FC 00 44 6 | 69 73 70 6C 61 79 0A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 7 | 00 06 10 03 00 1C 00 03 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 23 ----------------------------------------------------- 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F ----------------------------------------------------- 0 | 40 01 02 00 00 00 00 76 00 A5 00 A5 01 02 03 1A 1 | 1A A8 01 00 00 00 00 00 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 2 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 3 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 4 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 5 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 6 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 7 | 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 DA ----------------------------------------------------- < 00FFFFFF FFFFFF00 06101992 4E05FE02 230D0103 802B1B78 2EE691A3 544A9926 0F505400 00000101 01010101 01010101 01010101 0101C12D 90A0601A 0C404020 3300B10E 1100001E 000000FC 00417070 6C652043 696E656D 61200000 00FC0044 6973706C 61790A00 00000000 00000000 00061003 001C0003 00000000 00000123 40010200 00000076 00A500A5 0102031A 1AA80100 00000000 40000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 00000000 000000DA > ----------------------------------------------------- Valid EDID block: checksum passed ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------- MAIN EDID BLOCK ----------------- ----------------------------------------------------- EDID Version........1.3 Manufacturer........APP Product Code........6546 (1992) (9219) Serial Number.......02FE054E Manufactured........Week 35 of year 2003 Max H Size..........43 cm Max V Size..........27 cm Gamma...............2.20 Display Supported Features: --------------------------- Power Management: Active off Display type: ------------- RGB 4:4:4 & YCrCb 4:4:4 Color Encoding Formats Display is non continuous frequency Default color space is sRGB standard Preferred timing mode includes Native Pixel Format Input signal & sync: -------------------- Digital Input Color Bit Depth is undefined Digital Interface is not defined Color info: ----------- Red x = 0.640 Green x = 0.290 Blue x = 0.150 White x = 0.312 Red y = 0.330 Green y = 0.600 Blue y = 0.060 White y = 0.329 Established Timings: -------------------- Manufacturer Reserved Timings: ------------------------------ Standard Timing Identification: ------------------------------- Monitor Description blocks: --------------------------- Descriptor #0 is Timing definition: Mode = 1680 x 1050 @ 59.941Hz Pixel Clock............. 117.13 MHz Non-Interlaced Horizontal Vertical Active.................. 1680 pixels 1050 lines Front Porch............. 64 pixels 3 lines Sync Width.............. 32 pixels 3 lines Back Porch.............. 64 pixels 6 lines Blanking................ 160 pixels 12 lines Total................... 1840 pixels 1062 lines Scan Rate............... 63.658 kHz 59.941 Hz Image Size.............. 433 mm 270 mm Border.................. 0 pixels 0 lines Sync: Digital separate with * Positive vertical polarity * Positive horizontal polarity Descriptor #1 is Monitor name: Apple Cinema Descriptor #2 is Monitor name: Display Descriptor #3 is Unknown descriptor. ASCII interpretation follows (?) ----------------------------------------------------- ------------ EXTENSION EDID BLOCK 1 --------------- ----------------------------------------------------- DI-EXT: Display Information Extension: -------------------------------------- will not be interpreted

Panelook suggests there wasn’t much manufactured in the 20- or 20.1-inch range at WUXGA — one, to be precise. I doubt it would be simple to find one of those, given how I’ve never heard of the manufacturer.

If nothing else, maybe this thread can serve as a general springboard for upgrading Apple LCD displays.

 

[Amethyst1]

Would stepping up the LCD to, say, a 20-inch WUXGA 1920x1200p resolution be feasible in this circumstance?

As you say, there aren't many 1920×1200 or higher-resolution 16:10 20" panels around. The one you linked to is a TN panel with absolutely horrible viewing angles (it seems to be targeted at laptops), so there's no way in hell I'd want to replace the ACD's IPS panel with that.

Same goes for 16:10 23" panels with higher resolutions than 1920×1200. The closest is the legendary IBM Bertha which you might have seen as I am the loving owner of two. She uses a 22.2" 16:10 IPS panel with a whopping 3840×2400 pixels (WQUXGA).

Now, for 30", things start looking slightly less grim as there are several colour 3280×2048 panels, and one greyscale 4096×2560 panel listed on Panelook. These are used for medical imaging displays, i.e. mammography images and the like, so may not be cheap. Readily-assembled medical imaging displays definitely are not: you're easily looking at several thousand smackeroos here.

On a sidenote, many thanks for providing your display's EDID, which reveals that its default timing requires a pixel clock of 117.13 MHz, slightly less than the 119.00 MHz resulting from the CVT-RB timing formula at 1680×1050 and 60 Hz. The 16 MB ATI Rage 128 Pro is known to run the 22" acrylic (DVI) ACD which requires a 112.27 MHz pixel clock; yet not to run the 20" aluminum ACD which requires a 119.00 MHz pixel clock AFAIK. So it would be interesting to see whether it will run the 20" acrylic ACD at its slightly lower pixel clock and/or whether the 20" acrylic ACD accepts slightly lower refresh rates (≈57 Hz) to reduce the pixel clock to below the GPU's limit.

 

[B S Magnet]

As you say, there aren't many 1920×1200 or higher-resolution 16:10 20" panels around. The one you linked to is a TN panel with absolutely horrible viewing angles (it seems to be targeted at laptops), so there's no way in hell I'd want to replace the ACD's IPS panel with that.

Well, that’s not ideal.

When I disassemble the display in the nearish future, I can report back with a pic of what the LCD uses. If I can’t spring for a higher resolution LCD, then perhaps I can look for a later variant within the line with a higher luminosity than what shipped in late 2003.

Same goes for 16:10 23" panels with higher resolutions than 1920×1200. The closest is the legendary IBM Bertha which you might have seen as I am the loving owner of two. She uses a 22.2" 16:10 IPS panel with a whopping 3840×2400 pixels (WQUXGA).

Yes, yes, your binocular Berthas.

It really does come as a surprise how apparently no company — not even one like Sony — produced a 1920x1200 widescreen IPS display in 20/20.1-inch form factor for the PC side of things, ca. 2004–2007. You’d think there’d have been a professional or semi-pro market for it. I mean, I did find info on a 20-inch Dell display of 1200p, but it was a 4:3 ratio at (a very cramped) 1600x1200p.

Now, for 30", things start looking slightly less grim as there are several colour 3280×2048 panels, and one greyscale 4096×2560 panel listed on Panelook. These are used for medical imaging displays, i.e. mammography images and the like, so may not be cheap. Readily-assembled medical imaging displays definitely are not: you're easily looking at several thousand smackeroos here.

Yah, I’m not even thinking of that large — mostly because I don’t have a 30-inch Cinema Display in my possession, but again, I’m sort of surprised there weren’t indirect competitors to the 30-inch Cinema Display, circa 2005–2009, boasting of even higher resolution on the PC side.

On a sidenote, many thanks for providing your display's EDID, which reveals that its default timing requires a pixel clock of 117.13 MHz, slightly less than the 119.00 MHz resulting from the CVT-RB timing formula at 1680×1050 and 60 Hz. The 16 MB ATI Rage 128 Pro is known to run the 22" acrylic (DVI) ACD which requires a 112.27 MHz pixel clock; yet not to run the 20" aluminum ACD which requires a 119.00 MHz pixel clock AFAIK. So it would be interesting to see whether it will run the 20" acrylic ACD at its slightly lower pixel clock and/or whether the 20" acrylic ACD accepts slightly lower refresh rates (≈57 Hz) to reduce the pixel clock to below the GPU's limit.

I figured posting an EDID dump of whatever I could from my ACD could be instructive for someone (like you, as you were at the top of my list around here!) who could parse stuff on there which I could not. I know you explained pixel clock to me previously, but it still doesn’t come to me intuitively in the slightest.

 

[Amethyst1]

It really does come as a surprise how apparently no company — not even one like Sony — produced a 1920x1200 widescreen IPS display in 20/20.1-inch form factor for the PC side of things, ca. 2004–2007.

I suppose one of the reasons is that desktop LCDs tended to be around 100 ppi (or lower) at that time, which the 20", 23", and 30" ACDs matched pretty well. 1920×1200 desktop LCDs were initially 23" (98.44 ppi) but enlarged to 24”…28” at some point.

But a couple of years ago, in a surprising move, 22.5" 1920×1200 IPS panels suddenly appeared. I looked up one of them and the active area is given as 488 × 297 mm vs. 433 × 271 mm for a random 20.1" 1680×1050 panel.

The admittedly crazy idea is to mount one of these 22.5" 1920×1200 panels in a 20" acrylic ACD's housing and run it at a lower-than-native resolution displayed using one-to-one pixel mapping, i.e. at actual size, so that the edges of the LCD which would be covered by the acrylic housing, and thus invisible to the user, would not display anything. The obvious downside to that is that you'd have to make do with less than 1920×1200 resolution, but you'd (hopefully…) still get more than 1680×1050 out of this contraption, plus the niceties of a newer LCD.

Another panel that might be useful for this is the 21.5" 4096×2304 one used by the iMac 4K and original LG UltraFine 4K. It's 16:9 (grr...) with an active area of 476 × 268 mm: it is again too wide for the 20" acrylic's housing, but ever so slightly too narrow by 3 mm. You'd then use the same trick of running it at a lower-than-native resolution in order to "black out" the edges at the left and right that would be covered by the acrylic housing.

The LG UltraFine 4K stupidly stretches all lower-than-native resolutions to fill the screen (I haven't yet checked if the iMac 4K also does that), including those with a non-16:9 aspect ratio (which our custom resolution would be: you'd use the full 2304 vertical pixels but not all 4096 horizontal pixels) so things look weird.
A possible way around that (I'll test this) might be to run the LCD at full resolution and run the lower-than-native resolution as a scaled mode in macOS so that the GPU (and not the LCD itself) would handle the scaling, and it would hopefully be smart enough not to stretch a scaled non-16:9 resolution onto a 16:9 LCD. This might mess with higher-than-native HiDPI modes though.

You’d think there’d have been a professional or semi-pro market for it. I mean, I did find info on a 20-inch Dell display of 1200p, but it was a 4:3 ratio at (a very cramped) 1600x1200p.

Ah, 20...21.3" 1600×1200 LCDs were definitely a thing back then (e.g. Dell 2000FP, 2001FP, 2005FP, 2007FP etc.). Pretty much the highest non-widescreen resolution LCDs you could get, ignoring 2048×1536, 2560×2048 and 2800×2100 panels for e.g. medical imaging.

I’m sort of surprised there weren’t indirect competitors to the 30-inch Cinema Display, circa 2005–2009, boasting of even higher resolution on the PC side.

2011 saw Eizo release a 36.4" 4096×2160 LCD. Not for collection at your local electronics store though

 

[Amethyst1]

Some updates:

I completely forgot about the Lenovo ThinkVision L220x from ≈2008, which uses a 22.0" 1920×1200 S-PVA (not as good as IPS in terms of viewing angles but much better than TN) panel with an active area of 474 × 296 mm. Panelook only lists the Fujitsu FLC56UWC8V and Samsung LTM220CS01 in terms of 22.0" 1920×1200 **VA panels; all the others are TN. None are IPS.

A more interesting specimen is the BOE GV220QHB-N90, a 22.0" 2560×1440 IPS panel. Even with the edges partially blacked out, it would provide a noticeable upgrade over 1680×1050 in terms of usable resolution.

If I can’t spring for a higher resolution LCD, then perhaps I can look for a later variant within the line with a higher luminosity than what shipped in late 2003.

Mactracker lists the 20" acrylic's brightness as 230 cd/m^2 and the alu's as 250 cd/m^2.

However, I'd also consider just retrofitting a LED backlight (post is in German).

In any case, the highest brightness Panelook lists for a 20.1" 1680×1050 panel is 470 cd/m2.

The LG UltraFine 4K stupidly stretches all lower-than-native resolutions to fill the screen [...]
A possible way around that (I'll test this) might be to run the LCD at full resolution and run the lower-than-native resolution as a scaled mode [...]

I tested this — it works.

The following pictures show a 3740×2304 (non-16:9) scaled mode — or rather the corresponding 1870×1152 HiDPI mode — with black bars at the left and right while the LCD is driven at 3968×2232 (16:9):

According to my not very exact way of measuring, 3740 pixels of horizontal resolution come close to a width of ≈434 mm on this particular LCD, closely matching a 20.1" 1680×1050 panel's active width:

But if one really were to retrofit a 21.5" 16:9 panel into the 20"'s acrylic housing, one would of course fine-tune the resolution to fit the visible area as exactly as possible.

 

[Amethyst1]

When I disassemble the display in the nearish future, I can report back with a pic of what the LCD uses.

FWIW, my 20" acrylic uses an IDTech IAWS64C.

 

[originaldotexe]

too bad i trashed my 23" acrylic one once the backlight went out, it never even crossed my mind to put a newer panel in there

 

[B S Magnet]

FWIW, my 20" acrylic uses an IDTech IAWS64C.

Thanks. I might make a weekend project of opening my ACD to check on which LCD mine contains.

 

[B S Magnet]

FWIW, my 20" acrylic uses an IDTech IAWS64C.

Interesting to see it uses a 35-pin TDMS connector and not LVDS.

I was going to ask about that, as now I have my eyes locally on a possible 23-inch ACD for a fairly good price, but with a bad rear leg (which, of course, my 20-inch model could donate). Trouble is, I don’t know whether the 23-inch ACD model uses the same 35-pin TDMS or a 30-pin TDMS (the latter of which, on Panelook, shows an LG IPS model at 400cd/m², but with a 30-pin single-link connector).

 

[Amethyst1]

Interesting to see it uses a 35-pin TDMS connector and not LVDS.

Then there’s no need for the driver board to do a TMDS-to-LVDS conversion. If using an LVDS panel, this conversion is handled by the driver board — and changing the panel usually requires different firmware or a new driver board to go along with the panel.

 

[Amethyst1]

Since I disassembled my 20" ACD I decided to give this a try:

Apart from the absolutely hideous black foot, this ain't half bad!

ROFLMAO!!!

What shall I name it? "Apple Cinema 3.7K Display", "Apple UltraFine" or "Apple Retina 3.7K Display"?

 

[LightBulbFun]

23-inch ACD for a fairly good price, but with a bad rear leg (which, of course, my 20-inch model could donate).

sadly I dont think there compatible

I have an ADC 23 inch ACD which, which many years ago sadly fell off my desk and snapped its leg on the way down

so @MagicBoy very kindly sent me the leg from a 20 inch ADC ACD that **** its backlight, but turns out there metal mounting point on the back is thicker on the 23 inch then it is on the 20 inch!

 

[B S Magnet]

sadly I dont think there compatible

I have an ADC 23 inch ACD which, which many years ago sadly fell off my desk and snapped its leg on the way down

so @MagicBoy very kindly sent me the leg from a 20 inch ADC ACD that **** its backlight, but turns out there metal mounting point on the back is thicker on the 23 inch then it is on the 20 inch!

Unfortunate, but makes plenty of sense they would be discrete parts with different stress tolerances.

In any event, someone else snapped up the display, and I’m not going to lose a lot of sleep over it. But this is still good to know for the future.

 

[Project Alice]

Since I disassembled my 20" ACD I decided to give this a try:

View attachment 2015975

View attachment 2015976

Apart from the absolutely hideous black foot, this ain't half bad!

View attachment 2015977

ROFLMAO!!!

What shall I name it? "Apple Cinema 3.7K Display", "Apple UltraFine" or "Apple Retina 3.7K Display"?

Wow. I would very much like to upgrade the panel in my 23”.
Anybody have any panel suggestions?
I’m fine with keeping it 1920x1200. I use it on my MacPro with an RX 590, so gaming any higher than that resolution wouldn’t perform that well anyways.
But my display is showing its age. Especially with ghosting…

 

[Amethyst1]

Wow.

I didn't actually do any hardware modding for these pictures. I merely put the 20"'s acrylic bezel in front of a totally unmodified LG UltraFine.

I would very much like to upgrade the panel in my 23”.
Anybody have any panel suggestions?
I’m fine with keeping it 1920x1200.

Here's a list of 23" 1920×1200 IPS panels using a TMDS interface. No idea how much work replacing the 23" ACD's panel with one of these would be. The problem is, there's not much in terms of 23" 16:10 panels.

 

[Project Alice]

I didn't actually do any hardware modding for these pictures. I merely put the 20"'s acrylic bezel in front of a totally unmodified LG UltraFine.

Ah, maybe I should’ve looked closer at your post lol. I’m on mobile and at work with not much down time and just skimmed it.

Here's a list of 23" 1920×1200 IPS panels using a TMDS interface. No idea how much work replacing the 23" ACD's panel with one of these would be. The problem is, there's not much in terms of 23" 16:10 panels.

Thank you!
I have no idea either.. in fact I’ve never opened one of these up. I actually have two. One of which has some bad capacitors or something because it randomly flickers in and out and changes colors. I could probably take that one apart and see what it might take to replace the panel. Or maybe even use it if it’s the panel itself that’s bad.

 

[weckart]

sadly I dont think there compatible

I have an ADC 23 inch ACD which, which many years ago sadly fell off my desk and snapped its leg on the way down

so @MagicBoy very kindly sent me the leg from a 20 inch ADC ACD that **** its backlight, but turns out there metal mounting point on the back is thicker on the 23 inch then it is on the 20 inch!

I remember trying to substitute the aluminum hinge mounting from a failing 22" ACD onto a 23" ACD, whose leg had broken off at the hinge in transit. Apart from giving up taking the 22" apart as it appeared that not only screws but glue was involved but it seemed that even those parts weren't compatible. I wouldn't swear to it today but I doubt I would have given up if it weren't the case.

 

[barracuda156]

As you say, there aren't many 1920×1200 or higher-resolution 16:10 20" panels around.

Something genuinely surprising, since I would expect people wanting to have a higher resolution, which means a smaller size. I have myself been trying to catch a used Eizo LCD with 1920×1200 and 20", and I think I have found a single model with such specs within ColorEdge line – the rest being disappointingly lower resolution at 21" or 22".

 

[Amethyst1]

Something genuinely surprising, since I would expect people wanting to have a higher resolution, which means a smaller size.

You’re referring to pixel density (PPI).

If you want a small really-high-PPI screen there are portable monitors and the 21.5” LG UltraFine 4K, all with a glorious 16:9 aspect ratio…

Or the IBM Bertha.

I have myself been trying to catch a used Eizo LCD with 1920×1200 and 20", and I think I have found a single model with such specs within ColorEdge line

Interesting. I’m not aware of such an LCD existing — can you link to it or share the model number?

 

[barracuda156]

You’re referring to pixel density (PPI).

If you want a small really-high-PPI screen there are portable monitors and the 21.5” LG UltraFine 4K, all with a glorious 16:9 aspect ratio…

Or the IBM Bertha.


Interesting. I’m not aware of such an LCD existing — can you link to it or share the model number?

1. Pixel density is exactly resolution. The latter term is commonly misused, which I am aware of, but resolution is dots per unit area, not just dots.

2. I may not remember it correctly, tbh, need to look up. I recall there was a single specific model which I kept looking for, all similar versions being inferior. It might be the case that it was not 20" but somewhat larger still.