Seeming there is a 16", 15", 14" & 13" Mac laptops...

[spiderman0616]

Every one of my posts is my opinion. What matters is Apple's opinion. Thus far, we know that Apple canceled the Macbook 12" due to a lack of sales after only 3 iterations. They admitted it was a big mistake to make that laptop. I'm guessing they won't make that mistake again.

Keep in mind that a 12" Macbook would have be more expensive than a 13" MBA and a 12.9" iPad as the original 12" was an engineering marvel and required prices to be above the Air. Guess what laptop Apple just released that is more expensive than the 13" MBA?

I have to say I agree. The 12" Air involved product engineering that was simply too expensive for the time. I get the attraction to the small form factor, but this thing was almost netbook small and the market spoke very clearly about how into this machine they were.

 

[Hastings101]

I don't know if the market is there or not for a 12" MacBook, but I would buy it. I would love having an extra small and portable laptop with the power of M2 or M3 (those Core M Intel chips were awful) behind it that could be plugged into a monitor when the portability isn't needed or to do more productive work.

Honestly, I could go smaller with the screen too (weren't there 11" MacBook Airs?). There are also so many more common ways available today to make better use of that form factor like using a 3:2 aspect ratio.

 

[teh_hunterer]

No. The market for a 12" wasn't there 8 years ago. The market is even smaller today.

A 12" Macbook makes no sense in Apple's lineups today.

I think the market probably wasn't there because that laptop was before its time, and had a shockingly bad keyboard. While USB-C was virtually nonexistent at the time, it is now ubiquitous. They could give it 2 ports (or even MagSafe + 2 ports), a proper keyboard, and a bigger screen in the same chassis, which would alleviate all the issues that made it a failure.

I think it's high time Apple made a 12" (or 12.5" with modern day bezels) 2lb laptop again. With a magic keyboard and an M3 chip it would be insanely portable. The only ultra portable laptop-ish thing Apple sells at the moment is the 11" iPads with Magic Keyboards, but they weigh more, 2.4lbs, for a smaller screen. I'd rather have the 12.5" screen at the lower weight.

I'm not sure they will do it however. It's possible they consider the iPad to be their ultraportable device, and it's also possible they don't see a way to price it. As you pointed out, this was a very highly engineered device, necessitating a premium right from the start. I would pay quite the premium though for a device like this, with an OLED display, cellular, ProMotion, basically the premiums that the iPad Pro is highly priced for.

 

[leman]

I think the new 13" MBA is the same product category as the 12" MB. It's only 2cm wider and overall thinner. I kind of doubt there is any room in the market for a 12" model if you can have bigger display/keyboard in what's essentially the same form factor.

 

[dmccloud]

I think the new 13" MBA is the same product category as the 12" MB. It's only 2cm wider and overall thinner. I kind of doubt there is any room in the market for a 12" model if you can have bigger display/keyboard in what's essentially the same form factor.

I have to agree here. As Apple has slimmed down their notebook lineup across the board, they have effectively fit a 13" screen into a 12" chassis, a 14" screen in a 13" chassis, and a 16" screen in a 15" chassis. The 12" had more issues than just size though - it was also limited by just having the one USB-C port and the thermal constraints of the Intel Core M processors being used at the time. I will always believe that the M in that name stood for "mediocre", but that's just me.

 

[teh_hunterer]

I have to agree here. As Apple has slimmed down their notebook lineup across the board, they have effectively fit a 13" screen into a 12" chassis, a 14" screen in a 13" chassis, and a 16" screen in a 15" chassis. The 12" had more issues than just size though - it was also limited by just having the one USB-C port and the thermal constraints of the Intel Core M processors being used at the time. I will always believe that the M in that name stood for "mediocre", but that's just me.

People who owned a 12" MacBook will probably disagree here. Whether or not the 12" will ever return, those who used it back in the day would tell you the size and 2lb weight puts it in an entirely different category to the (2.7lb) MacBook Air. It might not look like much difference on paper, but in practise it was night and day.

Kind of like how the 11" and 12.9" iPad Pros don't look that different on paper, but for a lot of people that extra heft makes it a completely different device to them.

 

[Tagbert]

I'd love a 15'' or 17'' Air with a full size keyboard. Really the only flaw I can pick out with the 15'' Air. I like my number pad. I work a lot with spreadsheets so its just super handy to have

The world might have passed by smaller laptops what with tablets and all. I had an 11.6'' laptop back in 2010 and I really loved the little guy.

Is it feasible to connect an external numpad for times when you need to do entry? I’ve often thought about getting one but then I realize that I would probably not use it enough. I don’t want a bigger laptop just to have a numpad.

 

[Analog Kid]

People who owned a 12" MacBook will probably disagree here. Whether or not the 12" will ever return, those who used it back in the day would tell you the size and 2lb weight puts it in an entirely different category to the (2.7lb) MacBook Air. It might not look like much difference on paper, but in practise it was night and day.

Kind of like how the 11" and 12.9" iPad Pros don't look that different on paper, but for a lot of people that extra heft makes it a completely different device to them.

That 12" was a beautiful machine and so much lighter than an iPad and keyboard.

I think demand was weak because it was so underpowered for the time and only had one port that you could use to charge or for a USB accessory (and it was USB-C only before that was cool).

Of course I live in a world where I think the Mini is the best phone made and you can't hear my voice for the much larger contingent complaining that the Max is too small, so take that into account when weighing my opinion here...

 

[Tagbert]

Every one of my posts is my opinion. What matters is Apple's opinion. Thus far, we know that Apple canceled the Macbook 12" due to a lack of sales after only 3 iterations. They admitted it was a big mistake to make that laptop. I'm guessing they won't make that mistake again.

Keep in mind that a 12" Macbook would have be more expensive than a 13" MBA and a 12.9" iPad as the original 12" was an engineering marvel and required prices to be above the Air. Guess what laptop Apple just released that is more expensive than the 13" MBA?

The 12” MacBook was more expensive than the MBA at the time because the MacBook had a retina screen and they were still new and expensive to build at that time. If Apple were to do a 12” laptop now, it would likely be about the price of the M1 MBA and less expensive than the 13” M2 MBA. It would likely also bear the “Air” branding.

 

[Tagbert]

I don't know if the market is there or not for a 12" MacBook, but I would buy it. I would love having an extra small and portable laptop with the power of M2 or M3 (those Core M Intel chips were awful) behind it that could be plugged into a monitor when the portability isn't needed or to do more productive work.

Honestly, I could go smaller with the screen too (weren't there 11" MacBook Airs?). There are also so many more common ways available today to make better use of that form factor like using a 3:2 aspect ratio.

There was an 11.6” MBA. I still have one that I got out and powered up last month. It had a TN LCD with 1366 × 768 pixels at 135ppi. Very pre-retina. The screen had a 16:9 aspect ratio that left very limited vertical space. That screen had fairly large bezels. It was vaguely similar to the 12” MacBook Air in size though I think heavier. I suspect that you might find problems with some modern software with things not really fitting well on that small of a screen.

 

[Algus]

Is it feasible to connect an external numpad for times when you need to do entry? I’ve often thought about getting one but then I realize that I would probably not use it enough. I don’t want a bigger laptop just to have a numpad.

Often but not always. My work has many locations and while I am in my office at my spacious desk a majority of the time, there are often scenarios in which I am not. Sometimes I need to relocate to a different workspace (very large building and from time to time I am needed in other parts of the building) and maybe 10-15% of my time is spent traveling to work locations outside of my office. I cannot always guarantee how much space I will have to lay out an array of accessories.

I do have an external number pad that I keep stowed in my work bag but I'd be happy to forego it if I could. A 17'' laptop would have some appeal to me beyond a full sized keyboard (I wouldn't mind yet more working space either as some of the reports I work with contain in insane amount of data and my company loves laying those reports out horizontally) but also some drawbacks - yet more weight and bulk, and would be an awful snug fit in my current work bag (ie I'd have to think about buying a bigger bag)

 

[dmccloud]

I'd love a 15'' or 17'' Air with a full size keyboard. Really the only flaw I can pick out with the 15'' Air. I like my number pad. I work a lot with spreadsheets so its just super handy to have

The world might have passed by smaller laptops what with tablets and all. I had an 11.6'' laptop back in 2010 and I really loved the little guy.

The 15" air does have a full-sized keyboard, it just does not have an extended (101-key) keyboard with a number pad. I'll gladly take full-sized keys with no number pad over one that shrinks the keys down to accomodate a number pad.

 

[Abazigal]

That's your opinion... A 2 pounds laptop does make sense regardless of the screen size (my opinion).
Fortunately I am in the Windows world and can have a 13" laptop with cellular at that weight.

Apple's MacBook sizing does seem to mirror their current iPhone options in a way.

Iphone - previously, we had the 13 mini and 13, followed by 13 pro and 13 pro max. Now, we have the 14 and 14 plus, followed by the 14 pro and 14 pro max. The 14 and 14 plus have the same screen size as the 14 pro and 14 pro max respectively, it's just a question of whether you want to pay more for a better camera and display.

Macbook - previously, MacBook 12" and 13" MBA, followed by 13" and 15" MBP. Now, 13" and 15" MBA, which serve as parallels to the 14" and 16" MBP.

It seems like Apple is moving away from screen sizes that are too small, perhaps because there isn't much of a demand for them?

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I would love a 12" Macbook. The edge of edge keyboard was dope.

Edit: Replacement for the G4 PowerBook, not the Macbook. The 12" Macbook was just too thin, as they couldn't evenfit a proper port selection on it.

 

[sdwaltz]

12" won't come back and probably shouldn't.

17" probably should.

 

[JiggyJaggy]

That 12" was a beautiful machine and so much lighter than an iPad and keyboard.

I think demand was weak because it was so underpowered for the time and only had one port that you could use to charge or for a USB accessory (and it was USB-C only before that was cool).

Of course I live in a world where I think the Mini is the best phone made and you can't hear my voice for the much larger contingent complaining that the Max is too small, so take that into account when weighing my opinion here...

I think in some ways the point is being missed here. The 12 MB doesn't necessary need more than 1 port. I have only used mine with one port: Either to charge via usb-c or to connect to a USB-C monitor which charges it and shows the display. That was the essence of the MB 12, simplicity personified.

It was the sole reason I got rid of a cumbersome iPad and keypad duo, when I could have it in the size of a MB 12 and all of the iOs features of a full blown laptop.

 

[Leyf]

This will probably sound dumb, but who are 12" MacBooks for? I recently got a 14" and I think it's the perfect size. Portable, big enough for everything I need to do and nothing feels cramped.

 

[Longplays]

This will probably sound dumb, but who are 12" MacBooks for? I recently got a 14" and I think it's the perfect size. Portable, big enough for everything I need to do and nothing feels cramped.

Tiny hands? Baby hands?

 

[Leyf]

Tiny hands? Baby hands?

That would make sense, yeah. I assume the keyboard size is different on bigger/smaller models? (I'm a new Mac user, don't know much about past models)
I have very small hands and the keyboard on the 14" MBP is perfect in terms of size though.

 

[dmccloud]

All of the MacBook Air/Pro keyboards have the same size keys, with two exceptions: the 13" MBP with the touch bar and the 13" Air with its half-height function keys. For both of those models, every other key is the same size and layout as other Mac laptops.

 

[Tagbert]

I think in some ways the point is being missed here. The 12 MB doesn't necessary need more than 1 port. I have only used mine with one port: Either to charge via usb-c or to connect to a USB-C monitor which charges it and shows the display. That was the essence of the MB 12, simplicity personified.

It was the sole reason I got rid of a cumbersome iPad and keypad duo, when I could have it in the size of a MB 12 and all of the iOs features of a full blown laptop.

There is no reason that an Apple Silicon 12” MBA would need to have just a single USB-C/Thunderbolt port. The 12” MacBook had that limitation because the Intel chipset it used was severely lacking in i/o support. In a more modern version it would be a needless limitation that, while you may have been able to live with it, others would find too restrictive.

 

[Tagbert]

This will probably sound dumb, but who are 12" MacBooks for? I recently got a 14" and I think it's the perfect size. Portable, big enough for everything I need to do and nothing feels cramped.

People for whom portability is more important than performance.

 

[senttoschool]

People for whom portability is more important than performance.

It's not that simple.

It'd have to be the following:

• People who have to use macOS to do work
• Work can be done on a small screen like 12"
• 13" MBA is too large
• 12.9" iPad Pro is not good enough for work
• Willing to pay a high price for small laptop engineering

The amount of people in this category is small. I mean extremely small. And the market for this has shrunk considerably since 2015 because:

• Many people around the world have adopted just using their iPhone/iPads to work
• M2 MBA 13" is actually smaller and lighter than Intel MBA 13" - closing the gap with the original 12" Macbook
• iPad Pros have gained in work functionality through hardware, OS design and more 3rd party work apps

 

[Tagbert]

It's not that simple.

It'd have to be the following:

• People who have to use macOS to do work
• Work can be done on a small screen like 12"
• 13" MBA is too large
• 12.9" iPad Pro is not good enough for work
• Willing to pay a high price for small laptop engineering

The amount of people in this category is small. I mean extremely small. And the market for this has shrunk considerably since 2015 because:

• Many people around the world have adopted just using their iPhone/iPads to work
• M2 MBA 13" is actually smaller and lighter than Intel MBA 13" - closing the gap with the original 12" Macbook
• iPad Pros have gained in work functionality through hardware, OS design and more 3rd party work apps

I agree that the market is pretty small for such a laptop. The Apple Silicon transition has shifted the sweet spot for computers toward the middle. it used to be that you needed specialized hardware to get high performance or you needed specialized (and slow) hard ware to be good for mobility. Now a wide range of mid tier laptops exist that combine mobility, long battery life, and power in one package. There is less need for machines at the edges of the line anymore.

 

[dmccloud]

It's not that simple.

It'd have to be the following:

• People who have to use macOS to do work
• Work can be done on a small screen like 12"
• 13" MBA is too large
• 12.9" iPad Pro is not good enough for work
• Willing to pay a high price for small laptop engineering

The amount of people in this category is small. I mean extremely small. And the market for this has shrunk considerably since 2015 because:

• Many people around the world have adopted just using their iPhone/iPads to work
• M2 MBA 13" is actually smaller and lighter than Intel MBA 13" - closing the gap with the original 12" Macbook
• iPad Pros have gained in work functionality through hardware, OS design and more 3rd party work apps

The bolded line is the one I have been thinking for some time. If you look at the 13" MBA and the 14 & 16" MBP, they are basically in the body of a 12" for the Air and either a 13" or 15" for the Pro, primarily because of the minimal bezels around the displays. With the 13" Air, that gives you the portability of a 12" with the display and additional ports of the 13"