What makes me upset is that Apple has released all that information already. The data is storage in the chip, Apple does not have access to it.
Yes, probably the senator:
1. Is a show off
2. Can't read.
Senator Sends Letter to Tim Cook Over Touch ID Privacy Concerns
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What makes me upset is that Apple has released all that information already. The data is storage in the chip, Apple does not have access to it.
Yes, probably the senator:
1. Is a show off
2. Can't read.
kdarling
macrumors P6
Unless you come up with a generic method that applies to all similar devices.
E.g. There has been at least one example of a secure enclave broken by figuring out a way to get at the RAM that was once used to temporarily hold the secure access key during processing. The same crack could obviously be used for any of the other units made with that particular setup.
In the case of the iPhone 5S, there's only one model / OS from one manufacturer, which means a crack could have widespread potential. Just like jailbreaks and unlocking cracks do.
(If I were Apple, I'd offer a large bounty on finding a crack, paid if the finder keeps it secret. Nothing like taking advantage of more manpower in this case.)
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Big Al
While some of the security & privacy issues are of concern, Al Franken sureknows how to get media attention. I am curious if he has similar concerns over the Google Glasses? And who fed Al his questions? And why he isn't going after the NSA and the Obama administration with the same kind of attention grabbing style?
I expect Apple to address all his questions and more. I think they have less to hide than most of the other major players in the digital space - Apple's main revenue streams are not selling ads or tracking user behavior.
While some of the security & privacy issues are of concern, Al Franken sureknows how to get media attention. I am curious if he has similar concerns over the Google Glasses? And who fed Al his questions? And why he isn't going after the NSA and the Obama administration with the same kind of attention grabbing style?
I expect Apple to address all his questions and more. I think they have less to hide than most of the other major players in the digital space - Apple's main revenue streams are not selling ads or tracking user behavior.
croooow
macrumors 65816
Thinking about it, yes his past does have bearing on his politics. It is part of who he is. I do not have an issue with him holding office, but his past did not get deleted
Intentionally skimming wifi data on street view. And before you say it was an accident, remember this specific intent was specified in the projects proposal.
thefourthpope
macrumors 65816
These forums tends towards trusting apple, no question. I'm glad that Franken is asking these questions. Call him attention-grabbing if you want, the fact is that apple adding this tech is a lot more visible and potentially powerful than Lenovo.
Off topic: how much should I read into my iPhone autocorrecting Franken to Frankenstein?
Off topic: how much should I read into my iPhone autocorrecting Franken to Frankenstein?
Renzatic
Suspended
Probably a whole bunch. I know my iPhone likes to autocorrect "shoe" to "shoooooooo" (I'm not kidding). I've started to assume this is Apple's way of telling me I should wear flip flips more often.
...and that's why I'm gonna sue.
17thletter
macrumors newbie
Why does it matter that senator Franken was a comedian/satirist in his younger professional career? Franken has always been a staunch defender of privacy. He fought the patriot act. Sure, he may be technologically ignorant to a degree but his concern for the newly implemented fingerprint technology on the 5S is pretty valid considering the recent news of government spying. I for one am not worried about it but others might be and he's doing his job as a senator to speak for those who have such concerns.
crossifixio
macrumors regular
croooow
macrumors 65816
Being a comedian does not mean he cannot be a good politician. But his past should not be ignored when forming an opinion of the man.
On the first page is a video that does not make it seem the Franken is much of a defender of privacy. I guess he does not mind when he has access...
kdarling
macrumors P6
Nope, not according to the FBI report.
The idea to grab WiFi data was NOT in the mapping project proposal, because the project was only intended to map WiFi sites (just as iPhones do for Apple every day).
Instead, it was mentioned inside a program design document written by the sole engineer responsible for the code in question. It was his idea, and his idea alone.
(Anyone who works at a large corporation knows that such documents are rarely read in full by anyone, unless someone has to also work on that project... and often, not even then. Frankly, you're too busy doing your own work, to stop and read someone else's required design document.)
That engineer thought it would be cool to use the data to analyze the type and URLs of common traffic, but later commented that it wasn't very representational, since Street View cars only operate during the daytime, when most people are not home, and offices mostly use encrypted WiFi.
In the end the FBI decided that since it was not illegal in the US to listen in on unencrypted communications, the only fine they would impose was a small one for not replying to their inquiries right away.
spicynujac
macrumors 6502
We sure do know how to pick 'em in Minnesota, don't we. I don't claim responsibility for Franken though because I didn't vote for him.
When all else fails, attack the messenger.
scaredpoet
macrumors 604
Even if it's your wife's, or husband's, or significant other's?
A match to... what? That would imply they already have your fingerprints.
The same can be said about Touch ID. Don't worry if the NSA has your fingerprints, because you've done nothing wrong.... right?
(Of course, that's not really a valid argument, anyway.)
infinitech
macrumors member
I hope we can stop forming opinions of one another. His actions are worth having discussion over though and although we can speculate for days, all his letter proves is that an elected representative was asking questions about how something he and maybe even many on this forum don't understand.
If comedians and school teachers and technologists and actors and people from all walks of life can bring diverse discussion to the senate we should be glad.
nascimento
macrumors regular
Looking at the majority of posts minimizing what could become a global fingerprint database I can only conclude that:
1 Larger than usual concentration of id**ts
2 People have become complacent and numbed
3 Apple is paying them
4 bunch of irresponsible kids that can be excused because of their age
number 4 I can deal with but 1,2,3 I leaves we very worried for the state of things to come and for democracy
1 Larger than usual concentration of id**ts
2 People have become complacent and numbed
3 Apple is paying them
4 bunch of irresponsible kids that can be excused because of their age
number 4 I can deal with but 1,2,3 I leaves we very worried for the state of things to come and for democracy
croooow
macrumors 65816
I agree with virtually all of your post, but I think people elected to represent us are in a position to be judged by us. We should have opinions on senators.
notabadname
macrumors 68000
Apple "has made clear"... yeah, so, we must just believe them and shut up?
Not really. It wouldn't be the first time Apple lies (or at least shows its incompetence) about this (Messages). Plus, due to the NSA scandal, they are highly motivated to do so, so don't take their word so blindly. Any "mathematical representation" or model of your fingerprint can (and will be) stored and reverse engineered: its just a matter of time.
It's incredibly naive (not to say stupid) is for anyone to think that anything you put into your phone, and the internet for all that matters, has any level of privacy, regardless of what Apple, Google, Facebook or whoever says so to save face. Stealing our information, and making a profit out of it, is part of their business model. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise. And remember: this discussion is just getting started.
Well it is equally ""naive" (if not to say stupid)"" to get so hung up over something you leave all over the place. Once I understand the algorithm that generates the "mathematical representation" of your fingerprint, I only need your actual fingerprint, not the "representation", to create that model myself. So unless we are all wearing gloves in our daily lives, every glass, door knob, can and item we touch is leaving far more useful data, the actual print.
Apple's digital construct of a finger (and the nodes and points it uses to differentiate you from me) will be totally different than the digital values deemed relevant to the fingerprint scanner/software on a PC, or on my company's biometric security systems. The information stored on my phone however is much more private than my print, and a system that can passively get people to actually secure their device from the average thief (since a high percent opt out of passwords) is by far the greater step to protecting privacy for the general population. Anyone who truly gave a flying leap about your print could have it before close of business, on any day they wanted.
thefourthpope
macrumors 65816
skinned66
macrumors 65816
I think they mean lifting fingerprints from the device via conventional means.
Smith288
macrumors 65816
Seriously. Are you trolling me? The argument is that iPhones won't send fingerprints to the NSA on phones without the scanner.
I understand that iPhones can get fingerprints on them.
And the counter argument is that the finger print data isn't available to software.
Idiot asks idiot question
Glad I left Minnesota before elected this retard. How do Minnesotans justify their absurd election choices. Now the governor is an emotionally challenged alcoholic. They elected Jesse the body. And this carpetbagger. What a state. If you are a weirdo and want o be elected try Minnesota.
Everyone has the fingerprint wrong. You use fingerprints for convenience not for your super secret vault. Fingerprints for phone is great use.
Glad I left Minnesota before elected this retard. How do Minnesotans justify their absurd election choices. Now the governor is an emotionally challenged alcoholic. They elected Jesse the body. And this carpetbagger. What a state. If you are a weirdo and want o be elected try Minnesota.
Everyone has the fingerprint wrong. You use fingerprints for convenience not for your super secret vault. Fingerprints for phone is great use.
calaverasgrande
macrumors 65816
nobody in particular, just saying...
I think it is pretty irresponsible behavior to belitte a senator (or any politician) for doing what is in their job description; Looking out for their constituents welfare.
I do not agree with a lot of Franken's positions. he is quite to the right of me in some places and to the left in others. But if you have ever watched any of the committees or hearings that he has been part of, he is nobodies fool.
I would not be surprised if he does have some political motive, so lets not be coy. He is a politician. You simply do not get elected to the national level by being a wholesome honest person. The sharks are in the water and you need to swim as fast as them or they will take you down.
So maybe I'm cynical but I expect people like Franken to be corrupt. I am happy when something good transpires despite it.
And further attention to electronic privacy issues is a good thing.
If you are over 30 you can probably remember when we HAD electronic privacy (before the DMCA among other things).
I personally am not concerned about fingerprint scanners.
But I am a tech nerd. I can watch my ass.
I think it is pretty irresponsible behavior to belitte a senator (or any politician) for doing what is in their job description; Looking out for their constituents welfare.
I do not agree with a lot of Franken's positions. he is quite to the right of me in some places and to the left in others. But if you have ever watched any of the committees or hearings that he has been part of, he is nobodies fool.
I would not be surprised if he does have some political motive, so lets not be coy. He is a politician. You simply do not get elected to the national level by being a wholesome honest person. The sharks are in the water and you need to swim as fast as them or they will take you down.
So maybe I'm cynical but I expect people like Franken to be corrupt. I am happy when something good transpires despite it.
And further attention to electronic privacy issues is a good thing.
If you are over 30 you can probably remember when we HAD electronic privacy (before the DMCA among other things).
I personally am not concerned about fingerprint scanners.
But I am a tech nerd. I can watch my ass.
No, it really doesn't. If the NSA or another 3 letter agency wanted to find out this info they'd show up at Apple's HQ with a secret FISA warrant, they wouldn't bother publishing an open letter.
Also, to a lot of people in this thread, I don't agree with everything Franken says, but attack him on issues if you want. Attacking him as a comedian is moronic, it takes a lot of skill and intelligence to be a comedian successfully, I'd rather have a senate full of former comedians than most other professions I can think of.