They took the risk, worked hard, and made a successful business. And you call it theft that they want to reap the rewards. smh
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Sensor Tower: iOS Users Spent $41.5 Billion on Apps in First Half of 2021, Up 22% Year-on-Year
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pasamio
macrumors 6502
Hoeg Law did a video on Apple submitting the NCAA decision if you want a legal perspective: Epic v Apple: Why did Apple Just Submit a College Football Case? (Alston) (VL498)
Not to mention in many cases having to buy the development software, sometimes pay for the SDK, pay for the resources to learn how to use their SDKs and other related costs you need to expend before writing the code. Apple give away high quality talks and documentation, an IDE and simulator platform. I remember when I first got into PalmOS how hard it was to get up and running with all of the hoops I had to jump through just to get some code written.
Apple provide developers global accounting reports for their tax purposes based on their sales. Whilst it doesn't completely replace accounting costs it is a significant value if you've had to deal with cross border tax implications of sales.
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
The point I am trying to get to, is that in yesteryear the risk of promoting an app was on the developer, if the dev was independent. Today, with $99 to Apple, learning how to code, having an innovative idea, there is virtually no upfront financial risk. There surely is a risk of time wasted if the app bombs in the app store. But for the $99, Apple will give you discovery, distribution, manage the various legalities in countries abroad, have a testing mechanism, etc. And for that Apple takes a fee for the delivery of digital content that meets such criteria. Seems fair to me.
Of course there are those who want to usurp Apple's control and have their own app store and payment methods. Whether that will come to pass yet remains to be seen.
macsareveryinteresting
macrumors 6502a
Maybe he didn't. Not everyone took marketing. I'm not planning on taking marketing and I understood him just fine.
alien3dx
macrumors 68020
Apps doesnt mean need to promote to everyone and sometimes link to custom device/iot and some internal software which distribute private via ad hoc.
Testing mechanism only firebase analytic and nothing related to apple unless distribute via testflight or direct own cable to internal user which praticaly nothing to do with apple.
30 percent fee or 15 percent fee for digital purchase not physical item.
Google charge 25 dollar forever and apple charge 99 dollar for normal or more for enterprise .
Learning doesnt require 99 dollar and you can deploy to your device only cannot publish to apple store.
Financial Risk always exist in any of business , as normal business plan plan plan and the development for ios is very step compare to other language/platform.
DeepIn2U
macrumors G5
A new Sensor Tower report claims Apple's App Store generated $41.5 billion revenue globally in the first half of 2021, representing 22.1% growth compared to the same period last year.
All the court cases about Apple’s App Store App Store policies about the 30% cut the 15%, blah blah blah this right here is all you need to know to understand why all that bottle is going ONLY to Apple, not Microsoft, not Googl, not Amazon, not Epic. They all had no. Issues for 10yrs about Apple or their App Store in any way, but after huge revenues, this is the reason. Apple built literary starting from 30 days bankruptcy but now on top everybody wants to see Goliath fallen but Apple isn’t being a tyrant
bn-7bc
macrumors 6502a
You hit the nail on the head, if the developer don't find the 30% worth it for access to the IOS/IpadOs/WatchOS/TVOS users that is up to them, don't develop for said oses and dont sign the contract, no one forces you
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
I believe we agree on all items based on the above:
- app store provides discivery
- app store provides testing facilities
- IAP is only collected on digital goods
Maybe you can explain the financial risk part. Because to me:
- needs a dev license for $99
- needs to learn
- needs a computer
So someone who wants to pick this up without having a MAC could face a minor financial risk. But that needs to be compared to yesteryear where a dev could be on the hook for duplication, printing and distribution costs.
sintra1
macrumors member
People and companies are entitled to be paid for sharing their work 😕
bollman
macrumors 6502a
jlc1978
macrumors 604
I actually said almost no upfront costs. Compared to what it cost pre-Apple app store the current costs are very minor. In both cases you had to develop the coding skills, but also had to pay upfront for all the stuff Apple provides and only charges for when a product sells.
If it fails, the developer is out the development time and costs, plus the Apple developer fee; but hasn't sunk a bunch of money into packaging, marketing, distribution, etc. before they know if a product will sell.
Absolute Trainwreck
Suspended
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
jlc1978
macrumors 604
Apple also promotes apps on the app store.
My point is the app stores significantly reduced the barriers to entry for developers and increased their potential revenue cut.
Even if a developer decides to setup a website and send review copies out, that's still a hell of a lot cheaper than buying adds in several different magazines hoping your product will catch on. Plugging your app on MacRumors, 9to5Mac and other Apple centric forums is also a lot cheaper.
I never said there are no upfront costs, just they are much lower.
From an economics perspective, the question is will the consumer benefit from reducing Apple's cut? I doubt many developers will magically lower their prices if Apple does, so the answer to that question is no. If there is no benefit to the consumer then there is no reason to force a company to change.
iPhone’s market share in China has always been in the single digits or low teens, nowhere near a “monopoly”.
alien3dx
macrumors 68020
Software development not just boxes lol . Either volume sales in app store(online) or offline is still a cost. Waiting time for a approval in apple store is a cost, changing upon request is still a cost.
Either offline or online volume sales still need marketing and distribution. And i said it before again , apps may required additional item like iot .
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alien3dx
macrumors 68020
Its all depend on market segment,
1. In apps purchase don't work in android much compare to iOS platform .
A normal person would said just need 99 dollar , learn and computer?
1. you dont need 99 dollar unless you submit an app .
2. objective c and swift is the weirdest language of all . As all language and quirk , the cost re invent the wheel is high. The most good in apple platform is mindset. Apple user tend to update themselve to the latest operating system as fast as possible and the development can focus to latest api /sdk provided by apple.But in the same times , it will hurt developer whom provided sdk for iot(internet or thing) or not . The conclusion either long term stable(lts) or force upgrade is the highest risk in development which cost a bomb to end user.
3. You need mac not windows .Even you are "xamarin c charp developer " , you still need mac to connect to mac to compile and upload to the apps store. If you dont have mac , you can rent macincloud or ci tools .
4. You need actual device ipad ,iphone or whatever to test. Xcode only provide simulator not emulator like android studio. Never assumed works in Xcode will work in real device. You may upload or rent to some device farm like amazon to test but it only work for apps only but not with apps with iot.
5. Apps Store or Google Play Store just another distribution channel like steam , netflix,whatever brand in china phone . The reason epic crazy enough to fight with apple with fornite .Epic is a distribution channel and apple it self , since everybody claiming free marketing they want their cut more forever . Epic in the end fail and try to bug play store and apple. Having own distribution mobile channel doesnt mean you got good audience. Even you're in good audience platform like apps store , doesnt mean you need to stop actual marketing. Work as a team not one man show jack of all trade.
6. Is old times box is hard ? old times we receive mailing list printed with apps . If we want the apps(software) send snail mail letter and we will receive it( 1.44 disket era) . The most you can see example is Netflix. They just send the dvd and you can send back after you watch it ( now they do subscription base).
I7guy
macrumors Westmere
So I think we agree. We are using different language to express our thoughts. 👍
The only clarification is that I knew a mac was needed….thought that was obvious and hence i didn’t explicitly state it.
The graph looks odd. The black rectangles don't look like one is 30% larger than the other, more like 22%. The same for the blue rectangles, one look like 30% larger rather than 22%.
Abazigal
Contributor
I will say that there is value in Apple having aggregated the best customers in the world by virtue of the iphone (defined as users with a higher propensity to spend). This means that 70% of iOS app revenue will still be higher than 100% of android app revenue (and possibly any other platform as well).
Not forgetting that subscription and app revenue increases to 85% in the second year for select groups of developers.
I feel the App Store is also a powerful levelling tool for developers, especially newer ones who may not have the resources to compete with more established companies. Everyone has access to the same APIs and the same App Store infrastructure.
In addition, because it is harder is to sideload apps on iOS, app piracy is way lower compared to android, which in turn increases the number of users who actually pay for apps. So again, more money for developers of paid apps.
There’s also iTunes (which is itself tied to Touch ID and Face ID), all my subscriptions are consolidated in one page for easier tracking and management, Apple forcing developers to support features like sign-in-with-Apple and ATT will only benefit me in terms of more options, and I like that Apple is also experimenting with ways to let developers advertise to consumers while also protecting our privacy.
All these come together to create a better user experience, which in turn leads me to purchase more apps from the iOS App Store because of how frictionless the whole process is.
We can debate until the cows come home about what a fair cut should be. If not 30%, then should it be 15% or 10% or 5% or even waived altogether? But I think we can agree that Apple has invested a lot more in their App Store compared to android or even the Microsoft App Store, and are doing a lot more to tend to it.
As such, I feel that any conversation regarding the burning down of the current App Store model needs to take into account the overall bigger picture. It’s a lot more nuanced than “30% bad, let’s scrap it”.
Glad to say I contributed to exactly $0 of that.
No applets added to my iPhone, free or otherwise.
I've been burned by Apple breaking compatibility with paid software too many times.
No applets added to my iPhone, free or otherwise.
I've been burned by Apple breaking compatibility with paid software too many times.
MacBH928
macrumors G3
What are they buying from TikTok, YouTube, and Twitch? Most apps are free unless Apple takes 30% of ad money on those platforms. I also feel sorry for people who use Apple to subscribe to service like Netflix and Google One. they probably get it 30% cheaper if they used the site.