Setapp Planning to Launch Alternative App Store for iOS in Europe

[amartinez1660]

Again: Computer illiteracy has never been a valid excuse. This stuff has been happening since the early 2000s when we used to get emails from Nigerian Princes. Idiots on computers will always exist, that is unavoidable. But the idiocy of some is not an excuse to punish all.

Again, for the 1000 time being said here:

If you have a choice to pick between a vanilla Android phone or many other varied Android-flavored phones or an iOS phone; but choosing an iOS device feels like punishment yet you yourself on your own chose the “punishment”; who is exactly punishing you right there?
In fact, why insist in “punishing” everybody else that chose the platform based on what it has been offering for the last 15 years and don’t really trust or foresee what could happen if sideloading is opened up like that?

And again, I’m not saying it will go downhill, it might work marvelously enough more likely… I’m saying that I don’t really know, to not fix what’s not broken, that’s not what I chose, it’s being changed under my feet and there are other platforms already that work like that.

Vote with your own wallets, not with other people’s wallets.

Yes, just like Android...Riddled with viruses and stolen user information... Can't you see the EU is another unnecessary bloated layer of government that just collects taxes and fees making laws that benefit who? Just so they can clink their champagne glasses and create useless jobs for political cronies... Yes they’re looking out for YOU.... HA....

Exactly, this smells like a total money grab for those experts in work avoidance, sorry, I meant experts in politics.
Not mentioned enough here, but the article mentioned fines, 20% of global revenue, not even profits… revenue. That’s like 80% of EU revenue.

And not even just digital store revenue, ALL of Apple’s revenue. They want a piece of even the Mac hardware, software, tv streaming, data storage, AirPods, etc etc pie. Crazy.

Others have pointed out this will not be optional. That’s complete propaganda to say otherwise. Eventually, in practical terms, you will be forced to side load. It’s not going to be optional.

I guess it can, like with everything with lawmakers, they will move the bar overtime to the point where they will ask to remove the sideload switch option and leave it permanently on.
Also that sideload switch: I wish it were hardware locked phone from factory, we get to choose which phone to buy. But lawmakers would then ban said phones, guaranteed.

 

[cmcbhi]

I have an idea.
Why don't all those who are hot to trot to side load their phones switch to ndrois and leave intelligent people alone?

 

[Abazigal]

The App Store is absolutely filled with scam apps that are aimed at children and are "free" then give a $50 a week subscription for some coins in a kids game. Lets not pretend the App Store approval process is creating a safe haven. It's better than nothing, but it is extremely far from good.

An app charging someone $50 a week (and which can easily be revoked via the App Store settings page) sounds fairly tame compared to sideloaded apps on android taking control of their users' phones and siphoning entire life savings. It's also evidently problematic enough that the banks in my country are taking it upon themselves to design their apps such that they stop working if they detect sideloaded apps on their customers' android phones.

New banking app security feature sparks customer outcry; banks say it doesn't conduct surveillance on users' phones

SINGAPORE — To counter malware scams, banks here are rolling out a “stronger security feature” where phone users will not be able to use their mobile banking applications or log in to their internet banking accounts temporarily if their devices have other apps downloaded outside of official app...

www.todayonline.com

It also bears remembering that not all scams are created equal.

Facebook warns 1 million users whose logins were stolen by scam mobile apps

402 malicious apps plagued Apple and Google’s stores.

www.theverge.com

To be fair, Facebook’s report indicates that the issue is significantly worse on the Play Store — out of the 402 malicious apps on its list, 355 were for Android, and 47 were for iOS. Interestingly, the Android ones spanned a wide range of genres, from games, VPNs, photo editors, and horoscope apps, every single one for iPhone was related to managing business pages or ads.

Nobody is saying that Apple's own App Store review process is perfect, but attempting to equate it with being as bad as Android just doesn't do justice to the effort Apple does put into maintaining their App Store, IMO. Especially when the incidence of bad apps on android outnumbers that of iOS by a ratio of 8:1 apparently.

 

[Akrapovic]

An app charging someone $50 a week (and which can easily be revoked via the App Store settings page) sounds fairly tame compared to sideloaded apps on android taking control of their users' phones and siphoning entire life savings. It's also evidently problematic enough that the banks in my country are taking it upon themselves to design their apps such that they stop working if they detect sideloaded apps on their customers' android phones.

New banking app security feature sparks customer outcry; banks say it doesn't conduct surveillance on users' phones

SINGAPORE — To counter malware scams, banks here are rolling out a “stronger security feature” where phone users will not be able to use their mobile banking applications or log in to their internet banking accounts temporarily if their devices have other apps downloaded outside of official app...

www.todayonline.com

It also bears remembering that not all scams are created equal.

Nobody said all scams were created equal, and I believe I even said that the Play Store has bigger problems. But just because the Play Store is worse, does not make the state of the App Store and its submission process an acceptable thing. The App Store submission process is the least Apple-like thing I've come across in my decades of using Apple products. No amount of "but what about Google!?" makes it ok.

 

[Abazigal]

Nobody said all scams were created equal, and I believe I even said that the Play Store has bigger problems. But just because the Play Store is worse, does not make the state of the App Store and its submission process an acceptable thing. The App Store submission process is the least Apple-like thing I've come across in my decades of using Apple products. No amount of "but what about Google!?" makes it ok.

To me, it's okay when you view it from the perspective of consumers, not developers.

It doesn't stop Apple revoking developer certificates, as you will still need these to develop and publish applications. This is how the Enterprise distribution works. We still need a specific Enterprise account, and to justify its existence every year (I'm currently doing that this month at work), and Apple can kill it when they want which would revoke the certificates, which would kill the applications.

Apple still has the kill switch.

So let me get this straight.

You are expecting Apple to allow third party app stores to exist for the purpose of letting developers keep 100% of proceeds, while also expecting Apple to still do the work of policing their own platform, plus keeping track of, and purging bad apps when they prove problematic, all out of their own pocket?

I also imagine that a kill switch is something Apple would use only as a last resort (have they actually ever used it in the entire history of the App Store?). Which brings me back to my original point - wouldn't it be easier to just screen the apps and prevent problematic apps from even being made available to consumers, rather than have remedial action and pull them afterwards?

 

[mrochester]

To me, it's okay when you view it from the perspective of consumers, not developers.


So let me get this straight.

You are expecting Apple to allow third party app stores to exist for the purpose of letting developers keep 100% of proceeds, while also expecting Apple to still do the work of policing their own platform, plus keeping track of, and purging bad apps when they prove problematic, all out of their own pocket?

I also imagine that a kill switch is something Apple would use only as a last resort (have they actually ever used it in the entire history of the App Store?). Which brings me back to my original point - wouldn't it be easier to just screen the apps and prevent problematic apps from even being made available to consumers, rather than have remedial action and pull them afterwards?

I presume Apple will still charge developers, regardless of where they sell their apps from.

 

[BaldiMac]

That doesn’t even make sense or apply.

Where's the confusion? You claimed that there are people that assume "that people buying iPhone means it’s a 100% perfect product." I don't believe those people exist, so I asked you to identify them.

The App Store is absolutely filled with scam apps that are aimed at children and are "free" then give a $50 a week subscription for some coins in a kids game.

Absolutely fillled? I'd like to see some perspective here. How many apps like that have been identified and are currently in the store?

Not being perfect is not the same as not being effective.

 

[webkit]

I presume Apple will still charge developers, regardless of where they sell their apps from.

Does Apple still charge developers who sell apps for the Mac outside of the (Mac) App Store?

 

[Akrapovic]

To me, it's okay when you view it from the perspective of consumers, not developers.

The App Store is filled with scam apps. That's not ok for consumers.

So let me get this straight.

You are expecting Apple to allow third party app stores to exist for the purpose of letting developers keep 100% of proceeds, while also expecting Apple to still do the work of policing their own platform, plus keeping track of, and purging bad apps when they prove problematic, all out of their own pocket?

I also imagine that a kill switch is something Apple would use only as a last resort (have they actually ever used it in the entire history of the App Store?). Which brings me back to my original point - wouldn't it be easier to just screen the apps and prevent problematic apps from even being made available to consumers, rather than have remedial action and pull them afterwards?

I never said that at all, nope. I never talked about proceeds or what Apple should or should not do. I just said they already built this functionality.

Also the kill switch has been used on the Mac, yes. Which is policed in the same way with side loading.

 

[Akrapovic]

Does Apple still charge developers who sell apps for the Mac outside of the (Mac) App Store?

No but they are doing this for iPhone apps in South Korea and the Netherlands.

 

[VulchR]

...
Fact is that the notion of collaborating transnationally with neighbours in the geographical region know as Europe was rejected by the majority of UK inhabitants (that is not a political statement, it is a fact). ...

If you are referring to the Brexit vote, 37.4% of eligible UK voters voted to leave, 34.7% to stay and the rest failed to vote. That's voters, not inhabitants, so the proportions of inhabitants would be very much lower. Since 2017 more people in the UK thought Brexit was wrong than right (https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/que...ng-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/?pollster[]=yougov) yet in 2020 the UK was taken out of the EU by a government with <44% of the popular vote. Polls suggest most people in the UK would vote to rejoin the EU (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/07/18/britons-would-vote-rejoin-eu).

My point is that there never was widespread consensus in the UK to leave the EU, only a plurality of those who bothered to vote in the Brexit referendum. I am pro-EU myself, but I don't like the way the EU has been attacking Apple (requiring USB-C, sideloading). It does appear like the EU just causing trouble for a US company. It smacks of protectionism.

 

[webkit]

No but they are doing this for iPhone apps in South Korea and the Netherlands.

Do you know how it works in those countries?

 

[dwaite]

Legally yes, you're totally correct. But I'm talking in terms of technological implementation. Apple already has the ability to pull Enterprise apps using certificates. All of this "Side loading means the wild west" is completely untrue.

Does the EU regulation allow them to pull apps? Under what conditions?

 

[Akrapovic]

Do you know how it works in those countries?

Yes - we already know because it's already in place. In the netherlands the law is that dating apps must be allowed to use a payment processor that isn't Apple. Apple reduces its charge by 3% and invoices the developers.

 

[robbietop]

Apple app store is just filled with spam and the big name apps everyone has anyway

No it isn't. There are a lot of great apps in there, including the Macrumors app!

 

[4389842]

That’s not true because it assumes that the product people buy is perfect. You can buy a car but there still be a missing feature or a design decision that you don’t like. Same with a house. Same with iPhone. This area has been heavily criticized since the dawn of the App Store by many apple users.

If you are referring to the Brexit vote, 37.4% of eligible UK voters voted to leave, 34.7% to stay and the rest failed to vote. That's voters, not inhabitants, so the proportions of inhabitants would be very much lower. Since 2017 more people in the UK thought Brexit was wrong than right (https://www.whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/in-highsight-do-you-think-britain-was-right-or-wrong-to-vote-to-leave-the-eu/?pollster[]=yougov) yet in 2020 the UK was taken out of the EU by a government with <44% of the popular vote. Polls suggest most people in the UK would vote to rejoin the EU (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2023/07/18/britons-would-vote-rejoin-eu).

Fair points but it makes you think about the concept of democracy then eh… if a minority of voters can apparently determine the fate of a society, what does that say about the silent majority and our ‘system’ overall?

My point is that there never was widespread consensus in the UK to leave the EU, only a plurality of those who bothered to vote in the Brexit referendum. I am pro-EU myself, but I don't like the way the EU has been attacking Apple (requiring USB-C, sideloading). It does appear like the EU just causing trouble for a US company. It smacks of protectionism.

Again, I think this is just the difference between a ‘old continent’ and Anglo-Saxon world view: The EU believes some top down control is sometimes needed to protect the interest of the many. In the US, there is a lot of inherent distrust with government and regulation in general.

In the end, both societal or world-view models struggle are not free of issues: European regulators sometimes fail to keep up with the times, in the US and UK, there is a lot of inequality caused by what is probably a more orthodox pursuit of de-regulation…

Be that as it may, I welcome the day of no longer having to bother with Lightening while I personally couldn’t give a hoot about another App Store whereas others might consider that important. Considering all this ‘an attack’ on Apple is taking it a bit far. Apple’s ecosystem mostly ‘works’ and as their customer I do not have the impression they are in it to short change their consumers but then again, keeping them reigned in just a smidge will not hurt either… It’s healthy.

 

[webkit]

Yes - we already know because it's already in place. In the netherlands the law is that dating apps must be allowed to use a payment processor that isn't Apple. Apple reduces its charge by 3% and invoices the developers.

Yes but wasn't that still related to apps in the App Store? I was referring to apps sold outside of Apple's App Store.

 

[Abazigal]

The App Store is filled with scam apps. That's not ok for consumers.

You and I apparently have a very different definition of “filled”.

 

[Juvencus]

I am not sure about "free". How do the people who work reviews (to make sure the app is in compliance and not breaking the rules, etc.) at the Apple App Store apps get paid? Was the "15-30%" fund commission go to the App reviewers?

Are you under the impression that employee income comes from their individual department's separate revenue?

 

[Alex Cai]

Aldente for IOS?

 

[VulchR]

Fair points but it makes you think about the concept of democracy then eh… if a minority of voters can apparently determine the fate of a society, what does that say about the silent majority and our ‘system’ overall?

IMO voting should be compulsory - but at the time of the referendum a plurality of people in the UK polled to be in favour of leaving the EU, so that probely would not have changed anything.

In any case, maybe I will come to love USB-C. I doubt it, but who knows?

 

[Born2Run]

Don't enable / download it then?

I hope its optional setting and the dumb asses that want to force Apple to make this mistake don't force them to make it mandatory!

 

[Apple Core]

App subscription service Setapp today announced plans to launch an alternative app store for iOS and iPadOS in 2024.

The European Union's Digital Markets Act (DMA), which came into effect on November 1, 2022, requires "gatekeeper" companies to open up their services and platforms to other companies and developers. The DMA will have a significant impact on Apple's platforms, and it could result in Apple being forced to make major changes to the ‌App Store‌, Messages, FaceTime, Siri, and more.

Apple is expected to be compelled to allow users to download apps from outside its official App Store. Otherwise known as sideloading, the change would allow customers to download apps without needing to use the App Store, which would mean developers wouldn't need to pay Apple's 15 to 30 percent fees.

Apple is believed to be planning to implement sideloading support in iOS 17 to comply with the new European regulations by next year. Apple must comply with the DMA or it risks fines of as much as 20 percent of its global revenue.

Setapp offers a large collection of Mac apps in a single subscription service. The company's new app store for iOS and iPadOS will ensure that users can access universal Setapp apps on other devices, as well as a range of apps new to the Setapp catalog from over 30 developers.

Users interested in being among the first to try Setapp's alternative app store once it is available can now sign up to a waiting list. It will be available in the European Union only.

Article Link: Setapp Planning to Launch Alternative App Store for iOS in Europe

No thanks Setapp!