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Sexist School Rules, your opinion

lol @ The boys hair rules... They are some good rules, tell me how I can get my hair cut... You'd like too! I'd break each one in a different month of the year I think, but I guess thats how schools in the UK are different tho those in the US. Rules like that over here would get completely disregarded. Mocked even.
 
also just found this:
The Sex Discrimination Act 1984 makes sex discrimination against the law. The Act gives effect to Australia's obligations under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women and parts of International Labour Organisation Convention 156. Its major objectives are to:

promote equality between men and women;
eliminate discrimination on the basis of sex, marital status or pregnancy and, with respect to dismissals, family responsibilities; and
eliminate sexual harassment at work, in educational institutions, in the provision of goods and service, in the provision of accommodation and the administration of federal programs.

i guess this makes what my school is doing against the law
 
elisha cuthbert said:
also just found this:
The Sex Discrimination Act 1984 makes sex discrimination against the law. The Act gives effect to Australia's obligations under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women and parts of International Labour Organisation Convention 156. Its major objectives are to:

promote equality between men and women;
eliminate discrimination on the basis of sex, marital status or pregnancy and, with respect to dismissals, family responsibilities; and
eliminate sexual harassment at work, in educational institutions, in the provision of goods and service, in the provision of accommodation and the administration of federal programs.

i guess this makes what my school is doing against the law
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Possibly, yes. My advice - just get over it. It's not like they're denying access to all their services or withholding anything to do with the school from you if you're male.

There are bigger fish to fry in this world and you'll find similar dress-codes in offices and workplaces all over the world. Stop worrying about boys not being allowed to be pierced and start worrying about studying to get a good mark to go and study law and THEN make a difference.

Life's not fair, it's true, but you can make a difference by learning to pick and time your battles. Now is not the time - you'll jump up and down and get red in the face but until you've got experience and real knowledge behind you you won't be heard.

So, knuckle down now and make the change when you know you really can.

EDIT - Just thought I'd clarify my position here. I DO NOT condone any sort of discriminatory behaviour. It is abhorrent to me. What I am trying to say is that there are better ways of combating this than getting all mad about it in the school. Schools, indeed any organisations, are more likely to listen to you when you present your argument with all the facts and in a mature manner. If the OP believes he can do that then go for it but I remember myself and my friends back in high school, we'd get all hot under the collar about issues but it would be to our detriment. They won't listen to someone who's shouting.

The Michael Moore approach to conflict resolution is not always the best way. The best way to take down a system is from the inside, bit by bit - this is how true change occurs.
 
Chundles said:
Possibly, yes. My advice - just get over it. It's not like they're denying access to all their services or withholding anything to do with the school from you if you're male.

There are bigger fish to fry in this world and you'll find similar dress-codes in offices and workplaces all over the world. Stop worrying about boys not being allowed to be pierced and start worrying about studying to get a good mark to go and study law and THEN make a difference.

Life's not fair, it's true, but you can make a difference by learning to pick and time your battles. Now is not the time - you'll jump up and down and get red in the face but until you've got experience and real knowledge behind you you won't be heard.

So, knuckle down now and make the change when you know you really can.
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that be the problem, im already pierced (both ears) and i dont want to go into law, after i finish year 12 (if i finish year 12) i want to do my apprenticeship for being a chef
so it kinda defeats the purpose of studying. there is only one subject i really care about and i dont even do it at the school i do it at TAFE
 
RedTomato said:
I've heard this ******** so many times. I have the same problem here with one private school for deaf children in the UK that thinks it has the right to ban the use of sign language in the school.

It doesn't seem to care that this breaks several disability discrimination laws and human rights laws. It's not about 'leave if you don't like it'. It's about respecting the basic human rights of children.

Schools brainwash you into thinking they can set any rule they like. Your language shows that. You know as well as I do that government laws override school rules.

Suppose a private school said (extreme example) that its rules said it could cut off a finger for each time a pupil fails to hand in work.

Would you say 'well, it's a private school, either accept it or leave' ?

No, of course you'd say that's illegal, that the school is exceeding its limits to set a rule like that.

That's a clear black and white example. The situation the OP described is a more marginal case. The debate is whether this does indeed breach the overriding system of law and guidelines that the school must operate under.

You can't just claim it doesn't because 'that's the way it's always been'.

Laws have changed since both you and me were at school.

The entire thrust of general western legal movement for the past 150+ years has been towards stripping away rules that forbid people from doing things they are perfectly capable of doing, simply because they are not the 'normal' gender. (voting, becoming priests, entering university, wearing skirts, same sex relationships, becoming nurses etc.)
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That thing about the school banning sign language is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I hope they were prosecuted for it.

We do have laws against discrimination etc... (For eg in NSW we have the ANTI-DISCRIMINATION ACT 1977 Victoria would have something similar) We don't have a constitutional Bill of Rights like the US. You guys in Britain and Canada have a statutory bill of rights I think? We don't have that either.

I think really the thing is that the rules at the OP's school are not that restrictive. Well at least I don't think so. I had pretty similar rules at my high school (finished in 2001) which was a private school. But they were not enforced strictly. I had pretty long hair in school. And some kids had slight goaty-beards. My friend got sent home when we shaved his head (but probably because he did it for money and his naked head looked like a cat's arse). There was a Sikh who wore a turban (but I think it had to be in the navy school colour) We had a rule against members of the opposite sex holding hands! But only remember that being inforced once by one pathetic teacher.

Re your earlier comment about gay and transexual men wanting to wear skirts: I don't think anything like that has come up in Australia, at least not to be (very limited) knowledge. And I don't know who that would go – I don't know whether they would be prosecuted for something like that. I think most Australians would be quite surprised if something like that came up. But I think schools would find it difficult to comprehend a male wearing a skirt. The amount of crap that a transexual male would get from school mates would be unbelievably cruel. I don't know if it would be worth the trouble to be honest. But that's not to say that it is right to stop people having a choice!

But the rules given I don't think could be regarded as discriminatory or impinging on one's human rights. Unlike the US where these types types of things seem to be debated ad nauseam, they barely rate a mention here. For eg, the whole gay-marriage debate is pretty silent in Australia, I don't really know why). For better or for worse, like Chundles said, its take it or leave it. Although the position might be different if it was a public (i.e. government funded school).

Maybe it would be a good idea to point out the holes in the rules or the exceptions that need to be made – for eg for Sikhs wearing turbans and Muslim girls. Then the school might see the folly of their ways and the difficulties in writing up universal rules and hopefully abandon the idea.

FIGHT THE POWER!
 
elisha cuthbert said:
honestly i cant remember, i think it was something similar
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Ok, so the school probably would have been opposed to you having piercings anyway.

I agree that it is discriminatory that girls can have piercings, and guys can't, but anti-discrimination laws are in place to protect people being harmed or disadvantaged because of their gender, sexuality, race, religion etc. You not being about to have piercings does not disadvantage you or harm you so that's the reason such rules are quite acceptable.

The rules really just reflect what is considered "normal/acceptable" in society. Sure they may not be right or fair, but trying to bring something of this nature to an anti-discrimination issue is stretching it a little.
 
max_altitude said:
Ok, so the school probably would have been opposed to you having piercings anyway.

I agree that it is discriminatory that girls can have piercings, and guys can't, but anti-discrimination laws are in place to protect people being harmed or disadvantaged because of their gender, sexuality, race, religion etc. You not being about to have piercings does not disadvantage you or harm you so that's the reason such rules are quite acceptable.

The rules really just reflect what is considered "normal/acceptable" in society. Sure they may not be right or fair, but trying to bring something of this nature to an anti-discrimination issue is stretching it a little.
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What about the people that already have piercings?
 
meh...I will stick with my shaggy hair, with no piercings and Red shirt with blue jeans every day.It is comfortable and I look good in it.
 
max_altitude said:
What about them?

I'd be very surprised if the school didn't take issue with it before these new rules came about. Even then, if the school chooses to enforce it's policies, then they have every right to.
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well is it their body? are they the schools ears? was it the schools money that paid for the piercings?
NO

so, in my mind they have no right to tell me what to do with my ears
but thats just me
 
This reminds me of some big show that was made over a girl who wanted to wear trousers in winter, though her school wouldn't allow her to. I think she got expelled in the end. Absolutely terrible when it comes to this. I support traditional values and that, but when it gets in the way and makes people suffer then things really have to change.

My school had a no makeup policy which was nice. Personally I'm not a fan of make up clad girls :) oh and no earings other than a stud. Years before a girl had a chunk of her ear ripped off because of her large hooped earings.
 
elisha cuthbert said:
well is it their body? are they the schools ears? was it the schools money that paid for the piercings?
NO

so, in my mind they have no right to tell me what to do with my ears
but thats just me
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Well, you do attend their school. It's like when clubs say "posh dress only", if you turn up in jeans and trainers you're going to get kicked out. Schools as well as other places have rules and regulations. Whether or not you agree with them is up to you, I don't agree with some of the rules of your school but that's not the point. They have the right, just like clicking accept on a EULA you agree to play by their rules.
 
I completely understand the idea of uniforms... it helps to eliminate the possibility of discrimination due to social class (ie. some ppl not being able to afford designer clothing), etc.

None of the requests are really that radical... but it seems to me that they're wanting all the students to look the same... and where's the fun in that?
 
inlimbo said:
That thing about the school banning sign language is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I hope they were prosecuted for it.
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Sadly not, as they're very good at brainwashing parents by saying 'that's the way it's always been here, accept or leave'. Also they point to their status as being the top school for the deaf in the UK.

That of course is nothing to do with them cherrypicking the top 1% of deaf children in the UK, and spending about twice the average amount per child on them.

Actually, their exam results are absolutely terrible considering that every deaf child there should be getting easily twice the exam score of our average state school.

But I think schools would find it difficult to comprehend a male wearing a skirt. The amount of crap that a transexual male would get from school mates would be unbelievably cruel. I don't know if it would be worth the trouble to be honest. But that's not to say that it is right to stop people having a choice!
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Some teenage boys feel driven to cross dress at school. Yes they're very brave. Some come out on top, some are harassed to suicide. I know one teenage deaf boy who cross dresses - fortunately he comes from a well connected deaf family who are accepting, and he's acquired a strong group of teenage girls around him, who protect him and give him social support. Others aren't so lucky.

But the rules given I don't think could be regarded as discriminatory or impinging on one's human rights.
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Er? What's not discriminatory about different official rules for boys and girls?

If they were equal but very strict, well that's a different matter, but here, they are plainly different based on gender, without any clear medical reason.

Human rights? At first reading, I'd say no, it's discrimination based on gender, not a breach of human rights. But then I recall:

------------
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Article 21 : Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

(this was written in 1948, when gender-neutral language hadn't yet spread)
-------------

We have a situation here where a person, faithfully following the rules on appearance, hair cut etc for the opposite gender, will be denied access to the public service of education.

Pretty clear cut to me. You can find other applicable rights in the document too.

Everyone should read the Universal Declaration of Human rights, it's a fascinating document, has clear language and only take 5 minutes to read :)
 
the school has every right to enforce its policy while you are on its property and attending its functions. don't like it? go somewhere else. i went to a private high school. i was handed the same if not a bit harsher dress code. i wasn't allowed to have peircings in while in school, did that stop me from piercing my ears? no. just take the jewelry out before school and put it in when you leave.

the dress code is there for a reason, well i'd bet several reasons. but just because you disagree with it doesn't make it wrong.
 
RedTomato said:
Er? What's not discriminatory about different official rules for boys and girls?
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Is it discriminatory that I can't use a female toilet because I'm male?

The purpose of anti-discrimination laws is to protect people from being disadvantaged or harmed. No one is being harmed by these rules, nor are male students losing any opportunities because of them.

Your example of someone being driven to suicide because he wore a dress to girl is surely the perfect example of why such rules are in place. Yes, it may not be right that society doesn't accept men wearing dresses to school, but that's the way it is at the moment and such rules have been created to conform to that.
 
The rules are silly in my opinion. I don't like school uniforms and I think students should be able to wear whatever and act however they like as long as it doesn't hurt or inhibit anyone else or go beyond the standards of decency that the rest of society follows. On the other hand, I accept that a private school can set rules like this as long as they're not discriminatory to someone's disadvantage or harm, as max_altitude argues. With that said, I think private schools are a bad idea to begin with.
 
max_altitude said:
Is it discriminatory that I can't use a female toilet because I'm male?
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I knew you'd bring that up :)

I think that exemption was based on the right to privacy for certain functions :) I'm not a human rights lawyer, I don't know the offical story.


The purpose of anti-discrimination laws is to protect people from being disadvantaged or harmed. No one is being harmed by these rules, nor are male students losing any opportunities because of them.
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If a male student is barred from school for wearing a dress, that's losing an opportunity. Go to a different school? What if there are only a few schools in the local region? Moving long distance would require uprooting the student's entire family?

Your example of someone being driven to suicide because he wore a dress to girl is surely the perfect example of why such rules are in place. Yes, it may not be right that society doesn't accept men wearing dresses to school, but that's the way it is at the moment and such rules have been created to conform to that.
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So you're saying it's the victim's fault? That it's ok to harass and ban anything that doesn't conform to the norms of the majority? That none of us should make any effort to change anything?

There's so many things wrong in your comment I don't even know where to start. :(
 
elisha cuthbert said:
but even with the private school system, it is very discriminatory towards the Males of the school.
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How did I ever get through school without a piercing?

Count your blessings. I had to wear a uniform from Kindergarten through highschool. Of course in those days, a boy wouldn't be caught dead wearing jewelry that wasn't either a watch or a class ring.
 
elisha cuthbert said:
well is it their body? are they the schools ears? was it the schools money that paid for the piercings?
NO

so, in my mind they have no right to tell me what to do with my ears
but thats just me
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When I went to school, your ears were for two things: to listen to the lecture or in the case of inattentiveness something for Sr. Mary to grab to get your attention.

I know that I lived in the last of the extreme schooling era, but face it school is there for education - period. It's not a fashion show or a place for kids to try to express themselves - you got your entire adulthood to do that.

Put as much thought into your Calculus assignments as you do in whether you wear piercings and you'll be able to afford to look and dress however you want to in a few years.
 
I personally don't see this as discrimination.

If the school had a pupil who identified as transgendered and both dressed and acted accordingly, it would be discrimination if the school insisted they dress to the rules imposed for their birth sex rather than the sex they identified themselves as. But we aren't talking about the transgendered or potentially transgendered here, we're talking about boys wanting to wear ear studs.
 
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