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Sexist School Rules, your opinion

I dunno, the phrase "choose your battles wisely" comes to mind here.

Maybe I am just getting old but this seems like such a strange thing to get your undercrackers in a bunch over. Spare yourself the frown lines and just put the earrings in after school. Conformity is just a reality for everyone; fight it when it's genuinely worth it.

My $.02
 
RedTomato said:
If a male student is barred from school for wearing a dress, that's losing an opportunity. Go to a different school? What if there are only a few schools in the local region? Moving long distance would require uprooting the student's entire family?

So you're saying it's the victim's fault? That it's ok to harass and ban anything that doesn't conform to the norms of the majority? That none of us should make any effort to change anything?

There's so many things wrong in your comment I don't even know where to start. :(
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First of all, ultimately the student would not be denied an education because in the public system absolutely everyone is entitled to schooling. Even though public schools here do have uniform policies and usually adhere to them, exceptions can always be made if there is sufficient medical, religious, etc reasons for them to be considerate of special needs.

I was in no way trying to imply that it was the victim's fault. What I was trying to say is that unfortunately society (especially a bunch of highschoolers) doesn't readily accept boys going to school in dresses. As a result a uniform policy can prevent a person from harassment and ridicule, which to me, would be in their best interests. As I said, it's unfortunate, but it's the way society is at the moment. I'm also not trying to say that change shouldn't happen, because I think it should and I think it is occurring. But change takes time.

Discrimination is full of grey areas and it's not an easy topic to argue about.

After all of that, what I was really trying to say, in relation to this thread's original topic, is that I don't really think someone not being able to have a piercing at school is a great violation of human rights.

Edit: What dynamicv and iBlue said.
 
Just think, in a couple years females will be complaining about how they make less than a man for the same work. So, honestly... it may be a big deal to you now, but in the grand scheme of thing, this isn't really that significant.
 
i went to an elitist high school (tuition rivals Stanford), and grooming was imposed on us as well. i understand that uniforms and conformity can be positive attributes, but so is self-expression and identity formation. i hated wearing ties everyday and looking like my dad.

i keep my hair at a 1.5 blade, wtf is up with a 3? i would petition to have most of those rules thrown out, cause in this day and age, there are more important problems than piercings and short haircuts.
 
Swarmlord said:
How did I ever get through school without a piercing?
Count your blessings. I had to wear a uniform from Kindergarten through highschool. Of course in those days, a boy wouldn't be caught dead wearing jewelry that wasn't either a watch or a class ring.
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Ive also had to wear uniform from Kinder, Ive been at this school since kinder.

Swarmlord said:
It's not a fashion show or a place for kids to try to express themselves - you got your entire adulthood to do that.
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its not as if we are all going out with massive diamond earings, we are wearing the invisible plastic studs

Swarmlord said:
Put as much thought into your Calculus assignments as you do in whether you wear piercings and you'll be able to afford to look and dress however you want to in a few years.
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what the hell is calculus?
 
inlimbo said:
Don't they teach calculus in Victoria? :) If you don't know what that is I would think about changing schools to one that does teach calculus.

Sorry couldn't resist an bit of inter state rivarly :D
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i think they teach it but in the Methods class, not the general class
 
When I worked at McDonald's the men were allowed to wear one earing in one ear only, whereas women were not allowed to wear only one earing in one ear. They had to wear one in each ear if they wore them at all, but not more than one.

Believe it or not, it was actually the least of their ethical problems. ;) :eek:
 
inlimbo said:
Don't they teach calculus in Victoria? :) If you don't know what that is I would think about changing schools to one that does teach calculus.

Sorry couldn't resist an bit of inter state rivarly :D
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Believe me, we do calculus. *shudders at thought* It just depends on which maths subjects you do.
 
max_altitude said:
I was in no way trying to imply that it was the victim's fault. What I was trying to say is that unfortunately society (especially a bunch of highschoolers) doesn't readily accept boys going to school in dresses. As a result a uniform policy can prevent a person from harassment and ridicule, which to me, would be in their best interests. As I said, it's unfortunate, but it's the way society is at the moment. I'm also not trying to say that change shouldn't happen, because I think it should and I think it is occurring. But change takes time.
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I don't agree with what you seem to saying in this paragraph. First of all, there's a huge leap from having boys coming to school in dresses to having a school uniform policy. To me that's a bit like shooting a sparrow with a cannon. When it comes to transgendered students, the issue will not go away just because there's a school uniform policy.

Secondly, solving the issue of harassment and ridicule by trying to make all students equal is not a good policy in my book. It's impossible to make students identical anyway, so there will always be something for bullies to pick up on. If harassment is part of the motivation for having school uniforms, I also see it as an attempt to ignore an issue that shouldn't be ignored. School does not only teach facts, it teaches a lot more and one the other things it teaches is social skills. Learning tolerance (don't harass) and learning how to balance individuality and urges with social acceptability (don't get harassed) should be part of the school system, because people in the real world don't wear uniforms and aren't equal, so students should learn how to deal with that diversity in school, too.

Even if, just for the sake of the argument, we imagine that harassment goes away with a school uniform policy, the students will still have to cope with their differences outside school hours and when they graduate.

There may be other good reasons for having a school uniform, but I don't see harassment as one of them, because, like I said, I don't think school uniforms eliminates harassment as a problem anyway and because I think learning how to behave in normal social settings is part of the education.
 
pseudobrit said:
That strikes me as an incredibly humiliating experience for a kid with cancer.
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Well, what would you rather see? A skinny pale bald kid at school or one in a wig? It's pretty simple and the rules are the same all over Australia - they take the view that debilitating life-threatening disease or not you will adhere to the school rules.
You do realise my first response was a joke? Don't you? You honestly believe a school would enforce a "no hair - no school" policy on a kid with cancer?

With a user name like "pseudobrit" I would have thought you'd notice a post dripping in irony from a mile away....:confused:
 
max_altitude said:
I was in no way trying to imply that it was the victim's fault. What I was trying to say is that unfortunately society (especially a bunch of highschoolers) doesn't readily accept boys going to school in dresses. As a result a uniform policy can prevent a person from harassment and ridicule, which to me, would be in their best interests. As I said, it's unfortunate, but it's the way society is at the moment. I'm also not trying to say that change shouldn't happen, because I think it should and I think it is occurring. But change takes time.
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I was really close to agreeing with you (even though I detest the idea of uniforms). However we are talking about a kid having options and choosing to wear a skirt. This isn't poor vs rich where the poor don't have a choice.

This is a parallel many will throw away based on the fact that it uses religion, but I'm gonna drop it out there anyway because it's how I can relate.

I could be ridiculed for being a Christian. Should a school, for my own safety and my "peace of mind", bar me from wearing a cross necklace? If I want to take hazing, cruelty, pain, or even death for something I believe is right, that is my choice, and thinking that an institution is "saving me" by denying me that right is ludicrous. Being different has consequences, but I'm pretty sure most of the world shakers and changers didn't take the easy conformist route.

Now to the OP, I wouldn't get too hot headed about it. On the other hand there are people here telling you to move on to bigger fish. WTF? This is a HUGE fish, if you actually could make a case against the school and get rules changed (without getting kicked out of school), that would be amazing, very forward thinking, and show some balls. I'm not so much on the "shutup until your older" mentality. You aren't smoking drugs, drag racing, or beating up small children. You are observing an inequality in a system and want to amend it. I applaud you. Its that attitude that shaped this (US) country. That, and telling the UK to %^&* off :D (I mean no offense there guys).

But, don't take it too seriously, it's a standard practice that you may or may not be able to change. Just don't let it get in the way of your education. But assuming you are a half way smart kid, you should have a LITTLE spare time after you studies, contrary to some people here who think it'll keep you from succeeding in life :rolleyes:

Cheers all,
Tyler
 
I think I'll post these rules in my house just to rile my kids up :p

Truthfullly, though, I think it's hard for kids to keep up with the latest & greatest styles (and expensive for parents)...there's 'that' pressure. The other part is that it forces kids to at least show a little self-moderation and respect for the institution. I think it's good.

Of course there's discrimination...but that's a fact of life. You have discrimination everytime you head to the 'loo' and go in one door or another. You have discrimination in Victoria's Secret catalogues when they don't have guys up there modelling the bras :D It's *everywhere*!
 
At my old school we never had a uniform, kids wore what they wore, personally I used to wear a black long coat/jeans and general H&M stuff most of the time a few kids wore trenchcoats, a few wore tracksuits, a few wore plain jeans&tees.

There was a massive division between the wealthy kids and the poor kids but it made screw all difference, we all got to know each other as people not by which brand of clothing we wore, near anyone can dress in a way to present themselves as they wish on a modest budget, I spent a hell of allot less than the nike wearing chavs and we all I think grew up as better people for being in such a diverse environment, the nicest school I've ever been to was Frankfurt international school, everyone wore what they wanted there were kids from every corner of the planet, sure some of the grouped off but I'd never seen a more healthy environment than that school.


Uniforms promote school rivalry violence they are often expensive and uncomfortable and just turn kids into bricks in the wall, finding out who you are is a massive part of growing up.
 
Swarmlord said:
Usually the highest level of mathematics taught at the highschool level. Necessary for any technical degree including software engineering or computer science.
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Nah, we go waay higher than basic calculus. The lower, general levels of maths don't really do much of it but we did calculus, irrational numbers, some differential equations etc. I know a lot of that technically is calculus but it's a long way from defining curves and stuff by finding the differential of their equations. Lots of fancy integration as well.

1st year uni takes it up another few notches but I can't remember much of that.
 
Chundles said:
Nah, we go waay higher than basic calculus. The lower, general levels of maths don't really do much of it but we did calculus, irrational numbers, some differential equations etc. I know a lot of that technically is calculus but it's a long way from defining curves and stuff by finding the differential of their equations. Lots of fancy integration as well.

1st year uni takes it up another few notches but I can't remember much of that.
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That sounds like first year A level maths in the UK, although I did that back in the late 80s so it may have changed since my day.

**Gasps at the realisation of how old he is** :eek:
 
I have mixed feelings... I think it's reasonable to control the environment to some extent and make sure that it is oriented on learning. But I also think that some of the rules are excessive, perhaps particularly for the boys. I don't think my hair complies with the rules, but I also don't think my hair is unprofessional (and I am fairly confident that others also do not think so).

I don't have any piercings, although it's very popular especially with people who are teens right now and I don't see it as a big deal either. If they recognize that kids have piercings, I don't see why clear plastic "keeper" studs that aren't very noticable (that allow kids to keep their piercings without wearing the actual rings / studs) are such a big deal.

I don't think my manicure (which is in need of an update! eek!) would meet criteria, although I don't find the jewelry / nail polish requirements to be that bad, since you can always put your jewelry back on after school and re-do your nails on the weekends....

Mmmm, meh. The "pick your battles" part is probably the best advice. :( But I do sympathize.
 
Chundles said:
Well, what would you rather see? A skinny pale bald kid at school or one in a wig? It's pretty simple and the rules are the same all over Australia - they take the view that debilitating life-threatening disease or not you will adhere to the school rules.
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I thought you Australians got rid of your Nazi leaders after WWII but I guess I was wrong.
 
Chundles said:
Well, what would you rather see? A skinny pale bald kid at school or one in a wig? It's pretty simple and the rules are the same all over Australia - they take the view that debilitating life-threatening disease or not you will adhere to the school rules.
You do realise my first response was a joke? Don't you? You honestly believe a school would enforce a "no hair - no school" policy on a kid with cancer?

With a user name like "pseudobrit" I would have thought you'd notice a post dripping in irony from a mile away....:confused:
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Just so people see it and stop this line of conversation. This is the reason I deleted my reply above, because I caught the text he put in white (and now I've put in blue). Now, can we go home, or back to kids being forced to wear stupid clothes? :)
 
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