Shocked at Apple Support

[BigDaddy5]

I decided to call Apple Support today, to see if I could somehow downgrade or get a phone with 1.1.2. My iphone, like a lot of others out there it seems, will no longer work properly with my car's bluetooth setup. Everytime I dial, the iphone disconnects.

I've tried all the basic troubleshooting tips, from airplane mode, to turning off bluetooth, to putting th ephone in restore mode and restoring it in itunes, to unpairing the two, and repairing them...etc. I'm no idiot when it comes to that.

So I explain this to the CSR, who promptly escalates me to a tech. I thought that was good of him. Well this tech explains to me that when apple releases an update, it does so to insure the phone itself works better, and it doesn't gurantee anything about how it works with 3rd party devices. I said that it worked fine for the last 3 updates, why not now? He repeated what he said. I tried to explain that this was a standardized protocol (Bluetooth), but he again repeated himself. When I asked what could be done to downgrade, he said nothing. I said well what about replacing the phone with an older version, 1.1.2. He informed me there was no way of knowing which phones have which firmware, and there was nothing he could do. I asked to be transfered, then, to someone who could do something. He said, and I quote "This is where it ends." After that, it was talking to a brick wall. I hung up absolutely fuming. Unless I'm speaking to Steve Jobs himself, this is not where it ends.

I managed to calm down enough to call them back, got a supervisor on the line and he kindly walked me through some things. He had me send my crashreport file to him for his engineers to look at, and will call me on Monday. Quite a different tune, and very much appreciated. I will remember that call as the reason I keep buying apple products.

I was completely dumbfounded by the first call. Even the supervisor I spoke with mentioned he was shocked by it, and that it wasn't typical. He was very kind and definitely good at his job. I was just shocked that the first tech I talked to would tell me "this is where it ends."

Anyway, I just felt like I needed to rant. Some of you might disagree with me for calling in the first place, or whatever, but the bottom line is my phone works less now than before I updated. I'm not satisfied with that.

 

[forafireescape]

Why are some Apple techs such punks? I've seen a lot of similar threads around here lately. I hope they don't start giving Apple a bad name. Although Apple already is definitely NOT known for its great customer service...

 

[hockeysc23]

Sorry he acted in that way towards you but did you think they would switch your phone with an older version?

I mean you didn't have to update to the newest version and being compatible with 3rd party blue-tooth devices isn't all macs fault. Maybe it could be your car's? Hopefully the manager/supervisor is able to provide some support but I think your request almost had no feasible solution.

 

[winterspan]

.....I mean you didn't have to update to the newest version and being compatible with 3rd party blue-tooth devices isn't all macs fault.

"you didn't have to update it"... You have got to be kidding?!? I didn't think it needed explaining that people expect updates to INCREASE the compatibility and functioning of their system, not BREAK certain features.
Also, we don't have enough information about the product at hand to know if it is an apple "Certified" solution. If so, both the manufacturer and "mac" DO have an obligation to ensure that the product and the iPod communicate correctly.

Hopefully the manager/supervisor is able to provide some support but I think your request almost had no feasible solution.

"No feasible solution" ? Of course there is a feasible solution. The solution is to gather information from the customer about the problem at hand, including what conditions lead to the failure, debugging info from the iPod, etc. This can then be passed on to the engineering team to look at.
Chance is if there is one person experiencing this problem, there are many others.
You *NEVER* just blow off the customer and say "this ends here". If one of my e-commerce CSRs pulled that I'd have their head!

 

[BigDaddy5]

Also, we don't have enough information about the product at hand to know if it is an apple "Certified" solution. If so, both the manufacturer and "mac" DO have an obligation to ensure that the product and the iPod communicate correctly.
...
You *NEVER* just blow off the customer and say "this ends here". If one of my e-commerce CSRs pulled that I'd have their head!

There are adapters that work with this head unit, a bluetooth and an ipod adapter. The ipod adapter is definitely certified, but the bluetooth adapter is bluetooth certified. It should definitely work with the iphone, because it supports the same protocols that the iphone is certified as supporting. And it worked prior to the update.

I agree with what you said, I was completely shocked by that.

@hockeysc23 - There are plenty of alternatives in a situation like this, as the other supervisor helped me with. He took my information and gave information to the engineers to research this and get back to me. Not the ideal solution, but it left me happy knowing I was being taken seriously.

Is swapping out the phone a good solution? Why not? I swapped one out at a store when I was having problems with my battery after upgrading to 1.1.2. Magically my battery issues went away. Go figure. I didn't have to upgrade back then either, but they didn't blow me off when I did. I actually upgraded before it was even available on itunes, and went in the store the next morning. I think it had just trickled down to itunes within a few hours of me going into the store, but they still swapped it out after I told them what I had done.

I pay for apple products because of their service, and I don't believe I am an unreasonable customer. I have never made any outrageous demands, and I wasn't demanding a new phone, simply offering suggestions. I don't buy for the cult feeling or whatever it is, I pay the premium for the customer service. For the most part, I have been very satisfied with it. Tonight, I was left speechless. Even the second rep I spoke with said it was completely out of character for an apple rep.

 

[hockeysc23]

"you didn't have to update it"... You have got to be kidding?!? I didn't think it needed explaining that people expect updates to INCREASE the compatibility and functioning of their system, not BREAK certain features.
Also, we don't have enough information about the product at hand to know if it is an apple "Certified" solution. If so, both the manufacturer and "mac" DO have an obligation to ensure that the product and the iPod communicate correctly.


"No feasible solution" ? Of course there is a feasible solution. The solution is to gather information from the customer about the problem at hand, including what conditions lead to the failure, debugging info from the iPod, etc. This can then be passed on to the engineering team to look at.
Chance is if there is one person experiencing this problem, there are many others.
You *NEVER* just blow off the customer and say "this ends here". If one of my e-commerce CSRs pulled that I'd have their head!

True you don't blow off your customer and the way the first customer representative handled it wasn't perfect.

But there are so many variables in that situation where it could be the car or while unlikely syncing incorrectly.
The correct solution was to get the unit working with the car but there was no way that was possible in this solution.

There should be some way for the TS to find out how to resort back to a previous operating system. Why didn't the TS call up their car company and complain? Seems to me there are 2 parties that have problems not just the cell phone company.

 

[BigDaddy5]

Seems to me there are 2 parties that have problems not just the cell phone company.

That's not even an issue since this started the day I upgraded to 1.1.3. All previous upgrades sync'd fine with the car. But the same day I upgrade to 1.1.3, suddenly it doesn't work.

And a quick google search will yield a few pages from apple's support forums that indicate I'm not the only one having this issue.

I clearly explained to everyone involved with the phone call what was happening, and when it started. That is why I tried so many different things to restore the iphone, and restart the radio's in it.

When I actually make the head unit dial the number, it will attempt to dial, and then I get the message "iphone disconnected."

You're right, there are many variables in play, but not the ones you're point to.

 

[zetsurin]

"This is where it ends"? Man, that response is diabolical. I can definitely feel your frustration there! I know I cannot keep myself from flying off the handle in situations like that. Ironically, it will be a hacker rather than Apple who will ultimately be able to help you. Hope you didn't shell out on AppleCare.

 

[Daremo]

BigDaddy5,

Just a suggestion, as a lesson learned, next time maybe wait a few days to a week before you update, and watch the forums to see if people are posting any issues with 3rd party accessories. I know I'm quick to upgrade, and I've been burnt in the past as well. It's hard to wait with the excitement of a new upgrade, but in this case, better safe then sorry!

Good luck!

 

[skubish]

I never update the minute it comes out. I usually wait a couple weeks to see what the guinea pigs say

What the Tech Rep did is wrong but Apple is not guaranteeing the iPhone works with all bluetooth devices.

 

[BigDaddy5]

BigDaddy5,

Just a suggestion, as a lesson learned, next time maybe wait a few days to a week before you update, and watch the forums to see if people are posting any issues with 3rd party accessories. I know I'm quick to upgrade, and I've been burnt in the past as well. It's hard to wait with the excitement of a new upgrade, but in this case, better safe then sorry!

Good luck!

See, I did wait a while. Nothing was reported for the first several days, however, about bluetooth being an issue. It wasn't until the same day I upgraded that macrumors posted something about it, which led me to do some more research about it and find a few apple discussion forum posts.

I'm with you, it's hard to wait, and when nobody posted anything on macrumors about this upgrade being negative (other than jailbreak not working, which I couldn't care less about), I gave it a go.

 

[kdarling]

Possible Fix?

I wonder if you can do what the Nuvi GPS owners did to fix their Bluetooth on 1.1.3:

Connect iPhone, choose Restore in iTunes, and select "set up as new iPhone". You can use the same name as before.

Do the restore, sync and try the Bluetooth again.

 

[skye12]

Its all about the human nature of customer service. These reps are just
like us. They are not robots cloned by Apple to help you.

Years ago I worked for a cell phone provider and was constantly dealing
with the public with tech problems and product issues (although it wasn't
really my job). You do fine most of the time. But it is SO stressful.
You get what I call battle fatigue. About 10% of the public are such asses that
it is hard at times not to want to slap them senseless. Keep in mind its hard to
keep GOOD people at these jobs. Why? You just get worn out. So take
you pick-incompetent or rude??? And Americans are the most demanding
pampered beings known to our solar system.

Thats why fewer and fewer companies give good support. No one wants the hassle. So Apple does pretty well.

Next time, think about it when your ready to judge customer service.

 

[dthmtlgod]

I never update the minute it comes out. I usually wait a couple weeks to see what the guinea pigs say

What the Tech Rep did is wrong but Apple is not guaranteeing the iPhone works with all bluetooth devices.

My iPhone still works great in my car, it uses Microsoft Sync

 

[BigDaddy5]

So Apple does pretty well.

Next time, think about it when your ready to judge customer service.

There's a big difference between putting on a fake smile every day to a rude customer, and telling a polite customer that "it ends here."


I'm fully aware that people get burned out, and what not. But it doesn't matter what happened prior to this call, because when a customer asks to speak to a higher up, you oblige that. I have NEVER told someone that "it ends here." If a customer wanted to speak to a supervisor, I would do so. I would explain to my supervisor what I had done before I turned him over to the customer, and sometimes emotion would get caught up in that. But it's the supervisors job to determine fact and fiction. That's the entire point of having supervisors, managers, etc, in a CS position.

 

[BigDaddy5]

I wonder if you can do what the Nuvi GPS owners did to fix their Bluetooth on 1.1.3:

Connect iPhone, choose Restore in iTunes, and select "set up as new iPhone". You can use the same name as before.

Do the restore, sync and try the Bluetooth again.

I'll try that when I get home, thanks for the tip. I tried nearly every tip I could find through apple discussion forums (airplane mode, turning off bluetooth, re-pairing them, etc)

 

[peterjeter26]

happens to me all the time its rediculas how disrespectfull they are to there customers .

 

[calvy]

happens to me all the time its rediculas how disrespectfull they are to there customers .

Every time I visit my local Apple Genius I get no help. I went in to request help when my iPhone would no longer send email on my sbcglobal account when set up as a yahoo push account. It received just fine, and got no errors on sending, but the email was never delivered. I explained it to the Apple Tech at the genius bar, and he said "oh, why don't you just use AT&T's IMAP servers?" Well, that would be a wonderful solution, if only AT&T provided IMAP to it's customers. It doesn't. I kindly explained to him that POP3 is my only option from AT&T, and that I really wanted the IMAP functionality....not to mention the fact that this all worked when i got my iPhone on launch day, it just quit a few weeks later. When I refused to let him tell me to use the AT&T IMAP servers, he got angry, and wrote down apple care's number on a card and told me to call them.

The only help I really get from Apple's support is when I already know the problem and can hand feed it to them to diagnose.

Having said that, it's still better than most of the other support departments I have been through.

 

[elmo151]

it's not perfect but it's the best ( per Consumer Reports )

try giving m$ a call about a vista problem!

 

[GSMiller]

The support rep just didn't want to admit he didn't know how to help you.

 

[aphexacid]

Its all about the human nature of customer service. These reps are just
like us. They are not robots cloned by Apple to help you.

Years ago I worked for a cell phone provider and was constantly dealing
with the public with tech problems and product issues (although it wasn't
really my job). You do fine most of the time. But it is SO stressful.
You get what I call battle fatigue. About 10% of the public are such asses that
it is hard at times not to want to slap them senseless. Keep in mind its hard to
keep GOOD people at these jobs. Why? You just get worn out. So take
you pick-incompetent or rude??? And Americans are the most demanding
pampered beings known to our solar system.

Thats why fewer and fewer companies give good support. No one wants the hassle. So Apple does pretty well.

Next time, think about it when your ready to judge customer service.

No, i dont think so. If you dont like yout job, or cant handle it, go find another. I dont need to put up with some ass clown that thought his job was going to be a breeze, then figured out that its the exact opposite.

nice try though.

 

[Sobe]

see this is where people get confused.

The purpose of customer support is not really to help the customer.

Oh sure, if you can help the customer, great. But the goal is simply to absorb complaints and only offer enough assistance to keep people happy enough to keep buying your products.

The goal is to get rid of the people as quickly as possible, whether their problem is solved or not.

And as far as the "it ends here" comment.

Honestly, you don't like the answer but that's really where it is.

The supervisor is just doing damage control and buying time to make you think they care.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but that's pretty much how it is.

All the best with your Bluetooth setup.

 

[Eraserhead]

Software isn't perfect, clearly a bug has been introduced, hopefully it'll be fixed in the next version.

Apple should allow you to downgrade to the previous version of their software, but generally they don't, I personally don't like the practice but still.

The Customer Service agent really isn't going to give you a new phone for this though.

To be honest generally people treat customer service staff very poorly, so they aren't always nice to customers. This is often company dependent and the company in questions fault, but not always. It could be simply the first agent was having a bad day, its life .

The goal is to get rid of the people as quickly as possible, whether their problem is solved or not.

Not really, if the problem isn't solved the customer will call back which takes even longer. Regardless they won't be happy customers and will be less likely to buy from the company in question in future.

 

[Sobe]

Not really, if the problem isn't solved the customer will call back which takes even longer. Regardless they won't be happy customers and will be less likely to buy from the company in question in future.

In some cases, yes that will be the case.

Often they will just give up, which works just fine.

And whether or not they are happy is less important than whether or not they bought the product, which they already did.

Is it a little short-sighted? sure.

But it's a modern day reality.

This is one reason I always buy from a company like Crutchfield.

I've had them stay on the phone with me for literally hours while I picked apart my car's electrical system and got everything working right when I was installing stuff.

Customer for life here.

 

[Eraserhead]

In some cases, yes that will be the case.

Often they will just give up, which works just fine.

And whether or not they are happy is less important than whether or not they bought the product, which they already did.

Is it a little short-sighted? sure.

Well that is the point . Most companies are adequate, especially when you talk to head office.