Shopping, Online vs Brick and Motar

[bousozoku]

What I don't understand is Home Depot and Lowe's. Self-checkouts aside, they are locking up so much stuff now. Specifically wire and power tools.

They say it is because people are brazen enough to grab a 500' roll of wire and walk out the door in broad daylight and the associates can't do anything about it.

So hire some off-duty police officers and position them at the door. If they see someone just walking out with something, they can stop them. Just them being there would probably stop 90% of it.

And no, I won't show my receipt at WalMart.

The local Grocery Outlet has locked up Spam, and it's not because they're worried about cholesterol.

If it was as easy as hiring off-duty police officers, many places would do it.

At my current store, I have less control than I did at the other but a couple of times, someone would walk into the store, see me, and turn around and leave. For what little I can do, intimidation is a good thing.

In California a few years ago, they made shoplifting of around $1000 a felony, to ease prison overcrowding. The local police don't even bother to arrive, if the amount isn't that high. When they changed the law, they let loads of thieves out of prison.

 

[ProbablyDylan]

So hire some off-duty police officers and position them at the door. If they see someone just walking out with something, they can stop them. Just them being there would probably stop 90% of it.

Former Lowe's employee here with some insight. In my area, they let go all in-store Asset Protection associates and have one guy that drives around the county "investigating" instead.

These big box stores are implementing cages, cameras, etc in order to subsidize their AP cost. Why pay to have a security guard when you can blame political figures and punish paying customers?

 

[ProbablyDylan]

In California a few years ago, they made shoplifting of around $1000 a felony, to ease prison overcrowding. The local police don't even bother to arrive, if the amount isn't that high. When they changed the law, they let loads of thieves out of prison.

It shouldn't be on the police to prevent shoplifting. Taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing a corporation's asset protection.

 

[bousozoku]

It shouldn't be on the police to prevent shoplifting. Taxpayers shouldn't be subsidizing a corporation's asset protection.

The police need to act on the laws. Here, they don't really follow the laws or stop real criminals.

Taxpayers should expect something for their money, not just fat police officers.

That said, grandparents and parents should have actually parented. That would have stopped 90% of what's happening. If there is no punishment, or the parent says "don't do that!" 15 times in a row without action, what child is going to listen?

 

[ProbablyDylan]

The police need to act on the laws. Here, they don't really follow the laws or stop real criminals.

Taxpayers should expect something for their money, not just fat police officers.

That said, grandparents and parents should have actually parented. That would have stopped 90% of what's happening. If there is no punishment, or the parent says "don't do that!" 15 times in a row without action, what child is going to listen?

I wholeheartedly agree with getting value out of our police and putting away actual criminals. I live in LA, and I love to go back and forth about how lawless it is due to our willfully impotent PD/SD.

Still, a business needs to protect their own assets first and foremost just like you and I have to. Police should be for when that AP fails.

 

[bousozoku]

I wholeheartedly agree with getting value out of our police and putting away actual criminals. I live in LA, and I love to go back and forth about how lawless it is due to our willfully impotent PD/SD.

Still, a business needs to protect their own assets first and foremost just like you and I have to. Police should be for when that AP fails.

When I was working at Target on self-checkout, the Executive Team Leader for AP left. A few minutes later, five people walked through self-checkout with enough alcohol to put down an elephant. She was told what was happening, and she left the store without any action.

In another incident, I had asked for her help, as people seemed to be able to turn off the ability to re-print receipts after someone had suspicious activity. She was unconcerned and told me to tell my immediate leaders. I mentioned this to the District Manager, and he gave it his concerned look and said that he would check.

At that point, I wondered if they were making some extra money on not doing the right thing.

 

[Huntn]

This is why Amazon is both convenient and evil. People are choosing amazon over going to the store, and its not hurting just big box stores, but the small businesses that help your community. I actually choose to go to my local hardware store and buy there whenever possible. True its a tad more expensive, but its helping a local business owner who is active in the community.

I still buy things on amazon, its virtually impossible to not. I had to get some medical equipment for my mother coming out of rehab, no brick and mortar store carries that. There used to be a medical supplies store where I grew up, but amazon killed them off

That's what I do for my printer ink cartridges. Office Max/Depot will match their online price in the store if you ask. I recently got 3 standard color cartridges, and the online price was 5 bucks lower.

But, yeah, shopping on Amazon is often more convenient. Plus, since I can use my Discover Cashback points, I order things and pay no additional amount over what the stores tack on to cover their expenses for processing credit card payments. It's a vicious circle, isn't it?

Way back when in The Amazon Effect thread, what turned me into a convert to a lot of online shopping is free shipping, saving time, and choice. This is powerful. I drove all over town once (3hr+) looking for something that turned out to not be available. Got it in 2 days online, and now some things are available in 1 or same day.

 

[Huntn]

You chose to show the deal to a Lowe's employee and had them price match it?

Actually, I should have tried that but the difference in price was stark, so stark I can’t imagine them matching, but also because all they had was a 15 count package at twice as much as a 100 Ct package online.

 

[Huntn]

Our local Kroger had "guns" for scanning as you shopped. Then you scan the barcode on the gun at checkout and it gives you a total.

But they went away during COVID and never returned.


You must live in a city. Because in the rural areas where everyone knows most everyone else, the manned checkouts are like the corner diner where everyone wants to catch up on the latest gossip.

My local Kroger, a small one, it’s usually 2 manned registers and 6 self checkout with 1 person supervising, helping. If light shopping, self checkout is by far quickest. .

 

[eyoungren]

My wife's been wanting Chinese food for a few days, so tonight we finally went. I was expecting Panda Express, but we decided to go to our local restaurant as the food there is great.

My only problem is that lately they've gotten quite inconsistent with their hours and you show up and they are closed. Now, they do specify that between 3pm and 4pm they are closed for an hour (every day) so they can set up for dinner (it's a sit down restaurant you can order takeout from). We got there at 3:45 so waited. Only to have one of the employees open the door and say "Sorry, we're closed until 5pm tonight".

Cue trying to find Chinese food at two other places and failing. We finally gave up and came home instead without spending a penny. Anyway, as I said the food at this local restaurant is great, they know me there too because I always order the same thing. I'm cool with them.

But I'm tired of showing up during posted business hours only to find the business closed. I get it. Life, emergencies, problems, and so on. You (business owner) are only human. But as great as this local restaurant is, I am continuing my search for a different Chinese restaurant. I say continuing because this problem has been there for a while now. As great as the food is there, there are other Chinese restaurants in the area. And they are probably open during their posted business hours. Most likely, I won't have to wonder if they will be open when I get there.

And that is one of the problems I have with mom and pop, local business. You want my business you have to stay consistent. If you're going to keep irregular hours fine, but be open when you say you will. If I can't rely on the business being open when it says it should be open, the business can't rely on me spending my money there.

 

[bousozoku]

My wife's been wanting Chinese food for a few days, so tonight we finally went. I was expecting Panda Express, but we decided to go to our local restaurant as the food there is great.

My only problem is that lately they've gotten quite inconsistent with their hours and you show up and they are closed. Now, they do specify that between 3pm and 4pm they are closed for an hour (every day) so they can set up for dinner (it's a sit down restaurant you can order takeout from). We got there at 3:45 so waited. Only to have one of the employees open the door and say "Sorry, we're closed until 5pm tonight".

Cue trying to find Chinese food at two other places and failing. We finally gave up and came home instead without spending a penny. Anyway, as I said the food at this local restaurant is great, they know me there too because I always order the same thing. I'm cool with them.

But I'm tired of showing up during posted business hours only to find the business closed. I get it. Life, emergencies, problems, and so on. You (business owner) are only human. But as great as this local restaurant is, I am continuing my search for a different Chinese restaurant. I say continuing because this problem has been there for a while now. As great as the food is there, there are other Chinese restaurants in the area. And they are probably open during their posted business hours. Most likely, I won't have to wonder if they will be open when I get there.

And that is one of the problems I have with mom and pop, local business. You want my business you have to stay consistent. If you're going to keep irregular hours fine, but be open when you say you will. If I can't rely on the business being open when it says it should be open, the business can't rely on me spending my money there.

Having helped my Chinese friends with their restaurant, it's rather typical for most to have their own lunch around 3 p.m. My friends didn't even eat until the restaurant closed at 9 p.m. Unfortunately, I would have a bad habit of arriving around 3:30 p.m. to avoid the crowd and not get leftovers.

 

[TheIntruder]

While a lot of things can be said about Amazon, both bad and good, in the close to 30 years since I've been a customer, I've never had a bad experience when the need to contact customer service has arisen.

That's fresh in my mind because of a recent purchase that has not gone as planned or desired.

Instead of making the purchase on AMZ, and paying 25% more, I chose a different vendor.

The product turned out to be either lousy, or defective, probably both, and trying to resolve its issues by contacting the manufacturer's support channel has gone nowhere.

If it had been a AMZ purchase, it could have been handled with a five minute online session, a short trip to the UPS store, and notice of a refund shortly thereafter.

Instead, I'm waiting for an RMA review that will drag on for some undetermined period, and if approved, will have to pay to ship the item back.

Regretfully shaking my head on that one.

Also fresh in mind is how companies are trying to pawn off customer service duties to unhelpful bots. At least with an unhelpful human, even reading from a script, there is some sense of actual communication occurring, before hitting the wall.

 

[eyoungren]

Having helped my Chinese friends with their restaurant, it's rather typical for most to have their own lunch around 3 p.m. My friends didn't even eat until the restaurant closed at 9 p.m. Unfortunately, I would have a bad habit of arriving around 3:30 p.m. to avoid the crowd and not get leftovers.

Oh, I don't have a problem with that. It's advertised on their door that they are closed between 3pm and 4pm. And I think Tuesday is their day off.

What I have a problem with is arriving at the restaurant at 12pm when it opens, only to be standing outside for 30 minutes or more. Or to arrive at 4pm (again when it opens) to only be told, come back at 5pm.

That's inconsistent. If this were, say Banning, California in the late 1990s when there was one or two Chinese restaurants in that small town I'd have to suck it up - because other Chinese restaurants would have been 20-30 minutes away. But this is Phoenix in 2024 and there is a Chinese restaurant on almost every corner (one across the street from this particular restaurant).

I can afford to find somewhere else.

PS. They are always advertising for help and there seems to be a turnover in the staff that isn't family. So, beyond my limited interactions with the primary employees I have no idea how they treat the rest.

 

[bousozoku]

Oh, I don't have a problem with that. It's advertised on their door that they are closed between 3pm and 4pm. And I think Tuesday is their day off.

What I have a problem with is arriving at the restaurant at 12pm when it opens, only to be standing outside for 30 minutes or more. Or to arrive at 4pm (again when it opens) to only be told, come back at 5pm.

That's inconsistent. If this were, say Banning, California in the late 1990s when there was one or two Chinese restaurants in that small town I'd have to suck it up - because other Chinese restaurants would have been 20-30 minutes away. But this is Phoenix in 2024 and there is a Chinese restaurant on almost every corner (one across the street from this particular restaurant).

I can afford to find somewhere else.

PS. They are always advertising for help and there seems to be a turnover in the staff that isn't family. So, beyond my limited interactions with the primary employees I have no idea how they treat the rest.

That sounds as though the restaurant is about to go out of business, something Chinese restaurants do in this town regularly. Only one has been around for a while, and they serve the most sugar in their Americanized recipes.

I had a chance in the 1980s to become an assistant manager of a pizza restaurant. Then, I looked at the opportunity and thought that I wouldn't be able to do it for forty years. I suspect burn out is a huge factor for many restaurants.

 

[eyoungren]

That sounds as though the restaurant is about to go out of business, something Chinese restaurants do in this town regularly. Only one has been around for a while, and they serve the most sugar in their Americanized recipes.

I had a chance in the 1980s to become an assistant manager of a pizza restaurant. Then, I looked at the opportunity and thought that I wouldn't be able to do it for forty years. I suspect burn out is a huge factor for many restaurants.

I suspect as much unfortunately. I think they probably have survived as long as they have because they were in business for so long and for so long, the food is good and for years they were the only Chinese restaurant in that area of town. But in the last ten years, west Phoenix has exploded with people moving here so now there are other Chinese places.

Totally get it about the pizza restaurant. I used to deliver pizza in my early 20s. I always try to tip drivers well now. I had a friend at one point who WAS a manager for a local pizza restaurant. The owner treated him pretty badly, so on his last day when the manager was not present, every customer who ordered got a free meal. He didn't charge anyone for anything that day. Locked up and went home.

 

[Herdfan]

But I'm tired of showing up during posted business hours only to find the business closed. I get it. Life, emergencies, problems, and so on. You (business owner) are only human. But as great as this local restaurant is, I am continuing my search for a different Chinese restaurant. I say continuing because this problem has been there for a while now. As great as the food is there, there are other Chinese restaurants in the area. And they are probably open during their posted business hours. Most likely, I won't have to wonder if they will be open when I get there.

Had a BBQ place we loved in WV that was just like that. It was owned by Veterans and they would close down to go cater for various veteran causes without warning.

I 100% support them helping other veterans, but they had a FB page and daughters in their 20's. It would have been so easy to make a FB post that they were going to close on X day and save me the drive.

 

[Analog Kid]

Looking for zip ties to tie up the Wife…I mean the Wife’s roses, I ventured into Lowe’s today to discover a package of 15, 18” black nylon, for $18. Something nibbled at the back of my brain, so a whipped out my phone, launched the Amazon App and there discovered I could order a package of 100, 18” black nylon zip ties for… $9, being delivered tomorrow. Guess what I chose? 🤔

Yeah, zip ties are probably best bought through Amazon. Doesn't require a lot of sales staff knowledge, and there's not a lot to learn from handling them in store. Going to brick and mortar means you can bring them home today, but also means you need to spend an hour going to the store and may not be able to use them before tomorrow anyway.

This is why Amazon is both convenient and evil. People are choosing amazon over going to the store, and its not hurting just big box stores, but the small businesses that help your community. I actually choose to go to my local hardware store and buy there whenever possible. True its a tad more expensive, but its helping a local business owner who is active in the community.

I still buy things on amazon, its virtually impossible to not. I had to get some medical equipment for my mother coming out of rehab, no brick and mortar store carries that. There used to be a medical supplies store where I grew up, but amazon killed them off

I tried for years and years to frequent my local brick and mortar shops, but there's very few cases where it's worth it anymore. For one thing, brick and mortar shops aren't what they used to be.

I don't think it's fair to pin this on Amazon. They're the extension of a trend that's been happening for a long time. The fundamental problem is that people are overly fixated on price. Costco, Walmart, * Depot, Circuit City, Best Buy... They all started the long dismal slide. The whole reason I'd go to a physical store is for information and convenience, but every one of these major retailers has made the decision that size trumps customer service. High turnover of ignorant staff if you can find staff, inconsistent availability of stock, bogus warranty programs, insipid data collection through "club cards" and other bs, treating customers like potential thieves, a drive toward lower and lower quality items to keep advertised prices down... Amazon isn't much better than that, but they're not really any worse.

I miss specialty shops run by people passionate about their products. It is really hard to find a camera shop anymore, for example, where I can walk in an handle a lens rather than read or watch someone else handle it online in a review cum infomercial. And hardware stores? They are total wastelands.

People need to value more than low prices though, for businesses to survive, and they don’t. Amazon didn’t kill these stores, customers did.

 

[Clix Pix]

Years ago I remember talking with one of the guys who worked in a camera shop that I used to frequent, and this was when online shopping was starting to really take off. People would come into the store, spend some time looking and handling various cameras and lenses, asking questions, and then walk out without buying anything. It was a no-brainer to figure out that these people would go home, get on their computer and order the item(s) from an online site, especially in the days when no one had to pay state taxes unless a store had a physical presence in the state where the customer lived or was having the item(s) shipped.

Sure, these people were saving a bit of money by not paying state taxes but that behavior eventually ruined it for a lot of the rest of us, and this was one reason that particular camera shop eventually went out of business altogether. Thankfully for us photographers, we still have a couple of very good camera shops in my area, but many people are not that fortunate.

 

[Huntn]

Years ago I remember talking with one of the guys who worked in a camera shop that I used to frequent, and this was when online shopping was starting to really take off. People would come into the store, spend some time looking and handling various cameras and lenses, asking questions, and then walk out without buying anything. It was a no-brainer to figure out that these people would go home, get on their computer and order the item(s) from an online site, especially in the days when no one had to pay state taxes unless a store had a physical presence in the state where the customer lived or was having the item(s) shipped.

Sure, these people were saving a bit of money by not paying state taxes but that behavior eventually ruined it for a lot of the rest of us, and this was one reason that particular camera shop eventually went out of business altogether. Thankfully for us photographers, we still have a couple of very good camera shops in my area, but many people are not that fortunate.

We are all human beings, we want to save time, have a large selection and save money. It’s really hard for us to do stuff for the greater good. I think often, it’s hard to recognize what the greater good is, although raising wages seems to be a good move, versus low slavish wages. California just set a $20 State minimum wage.🤔 Decades ago in small town America, Walmart was putting small stores out of business while they brought in much more selection at a cost savings. The future was set at that point.

 

[icanhazmac]

Years ago I remember talking with one of the guys who worked in a camera shop that I used to frequent, and this was when online shopping was starting to really take off. People would come into the store, spend some time looking and handling various cameras and lenses, asking questions, and then walk out without buying anything. It was a no-brainer to figure out that these people would go home, get on their computer and order the item(s) from an online site, especially in the days when no one had to pay state taxes unless a store had a physical presence in the state where the customer lived or was having the item(s) shipped.

Sure, these people were saving a bit of money by not paying state taxes but that behavior eventually ruined it for a lot of the rest of us, and this was one reason that particular camera shop eventually went out of business altogether.

It is really too bad that people do this shamelessly. Enter a business with the sole purpose of touching everything and tying up sales peoples time and expertise when they have zero intention of purchasing there but will run home to save a couple of $$. It should be considered theft of knowledge and service, but it isn't and won't.

Thankfully some retailers don't play the game. Back in the day I frequented a pet shop that specialized in salt water setups and witnessed an interaction between the owner and a customer. The TL;DR version is the owner had spent about 2-3 hours walking this customer through a full setup and the customer left claiming to "run it past the wife" before buying. 3 weeks later, the day I was there, the customer returned carrying a very large filter and proceeded to ask the owner how to set it up as he was having difficulties. The owner said "where did you get it" and the customer replied marinedepot.com had it for $25 less so I ordered it from them... the owner told the customer to call marinedepot.com and ask them for help. The customer got mad and left, he actually acted entitled to assistance!?!?!? After he left I discussed this with the owner and told him I strongly approved and was glad he stood his ground.

If you want to "click shop" to save time and/or money that is great, but don't pillage the time and expertise of your local retailer, do your own research and buy sight unseen. At the very least return to your local retailer and see if they will price match.

 

[bousozoku]

Years ago I remember talking with one of the guys who worked in a camera shop that I used to frequent, and this was when online shopping was starting to really take off. People would come into the store, spend some time looking and handling various cameras and lenses, asking questions, and then walk out without buying anything. It was a no-brainer to figure out that these people would go home, get on their computer and order the item(s) from an online site, especially in the days when no one had to pay state taxes unless a store had a physical presence in the state where the customer lived or was having the item(s) shipped.

Sure, these people were saving a bit of money by not paying state taxes but that behavior eventually ruined it for a lot of the rest of us, and this was one reason that particular camera shop eventually went out of business altogether. Thankfully for us photographers, we still have a couple of very good camera shops in my area, but many people are not that fortunate.

In 1978, I was selling cameras at a department store. There was this dude in a wheelchair that arrived every weekend and asked me loads of questions. One weekend, I didn't see him. The next, he came to me and said something like "I took your advice and went out to BEST showroom and bought the camera you suggested. Thanks for your help."

 

[eyoungren]

Years ago I remember talking with one of the guys who worked in a camera shop that I used to frequent, and this was when online shopping was starting to really take off. People would come into the store, spend some time looking and handling various cameras and lenses, asking questions, and then walk out without buying anything. It was a no-brainer to figure out that these people would go home, get on their computer and order the item(s) from an online site, especially in the days when no one had to pay state taxes unless a store had a physical presence in the state where the customer lived or was having the item(s) shipped.

Sure, these people were saving a bit of money by not paying state taxes but that behavior eventually ruined it for a lot of the rest of us, and this was one reason that particular camera shop eventually went out of business altogether. Thankfully for us photographers, we still have a couple of very good camera shops in my area, but many people are not that fortunate.

We are all human beings, we want to save time, have a large selection and save money. It’s really hard for us to do stuff for the greater good. I think often, it’s hard to recognize what the greater good is, although raising wages seems to be a good move, versus low slavish wages. California just set a $20 State minimum wage.🤔 Decades ago in small town America, Walmart was putting small stores out of business while they brought in much more selection at a cost savings. The future was set at that point.

It is really too bad that people do this shamelessly. Enter a business with the sole purpose of touching everything and tying up sales peoples time and expertise when they have zero intention of purchasing there but will run home to save a couple of $$. It should be considered theft of knowledge and service, but it isn't and won't.

Thankfully some retailers don't play the game. Back in the day I frequented a pet shop that specialized in salt water setups and witnessed an interaction between the owner and a customer. The TL;DR version is the owner had spent about 2-3 hours walking this customer through a full setup and the customer left claiming to "run it past the wife" before buying. 3 weeks later, the day I was there, the customer returned carrying a very large filter and proceeded to ask the owner how to set it up as he was having difficulties. The owner said "where did you get it" and the customer replied marinedepot.com had it for $25 less so I ordered it from them... the owner told the customer to call marinedepot.com and ask them for help. The customer got mad and left, he actually acted entitled to assistance!?!?!? After he left I discussed this with the owner and told him I strongly approved and was glad he stood his ground.

If you want to "click shop" to save time and/or money that is great, but don't pillage the time and expertise of your local retailer, do your own research and buy sight unseen. At the very least return to your local retailer and see if they will price match.

Interesting. I do all my research online, find the brick and mortar store that has it for the lowest price, go there and get it. If they don't have it or I don't need it right away it's eBay or Amazon.

I don't need/want to deal with staff or sales people. One of the last cashiers I dealt with told me that Walmart does not accept Walmart pay.

Last night, when searching for Chinese food we walked out of a Panda Express when it became obvious that the 'guy in charge' didn't want to cook anything when he stormed out away from the employee asking him to cook.

Perhaps it's just how I grew up, always being taken advantage of and asking questions being treated as a weakness to be taken advantage of. I will gladly not deal with store personnel thanks. I want what I came to get and I'm getting that and walking out. Because by that point I know everything I need to know about it.

 

[bousozoku]

We are all human beings, we want to save time, have a large selection and save money. It’s really hard for us to do stuff for the greater good. I think often, it’s hard to recognize what the greater good is, although raising wages seems to be a good move, versus low slavish wages. California just set a $20 State minimum wage.🤔 Decades ago in small town America, Walmart was putting small stores out of business while they brought in much more selection at a cost savings. The future was set at that point.

That $20 per hour is for fast food workers only. Restaurant workers in real restaurants do not get that. A server in California gets $12-13/hour but the federal minimum wage for servers is still $2.13/hour and a few states still use that.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I’ll always buy local if it’s close to the online price, even if I am paying a bit more.

I always price compare though and sometimes you can’t support local when the markup is ridiculous. I bought floor tiles last year when I built an extension on my house and went back to the original local supplier as I needed the same tiles to match into my kitchen. He quoted me £830. I took some photos of the labels and product codes in his showroom and found them available online from a business in the Midlands for £420 and that was delivered. It annoyed me a bit as we’d bought tiles off the local guy for our hall and bathrooms, not to mention in the previous houses we’ve bought over the years. If there had been £30 in it I’d have gone local but felt like his was taking advantage. Unfortunately i’ll probably never use him again now.

 

[icanhazmac]

I don't need/want to deal with staff or sales people.

True. There are times when retail staff is, well... pointless and annoying. Mostly kids that couldn't care less about their jobs. The offense I hate the most is when staff doesn't acknowledge a customer. You walk up to them or the checkout and they just stare at you.

I was speaking of true professionals in their fields with years of experience.

I always price compare though and sometimes you can’t support local when the markup is ridiculous.

Also true. There are times where local brick and mortar are not paying attention to their markets. You need to either be aware of what the competition is doing or carry products they don't.