What argument against dongles? I'm just making fun of the idea that Apple pushing Thunderbolt 3 is going to lead to a "one size fits all" utopia when we all know that Thunderbolt 4's going to be a different size and will need thirty new dongles.
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Short List of Why Apple Made the Right Decision Pioneering USB-C
- Thread starter MICHAELSD
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What argument against dongles? I'm just making fun of the idea that Apple pushing Thunderbolt 3 is going to lead to a "one size fits all" utopia when we all know that Thunderbolt 4's going to be a different size and will need thirty new dongles.
First time Apple went with non-proprietary format and people complain ??? There will be no Apple tax on accessories / cables / adapters one year from now.
More and more I see offices (law offices, clients of different segments, etc) with AppleTV to mirror iPhones/iPads/macs. Don't know if ATV can display/mirror Windows laptops. Projectors are too clumsy and installation too costly.
Speeds for external drives will finally be similar to internal drives.
So many "pluses" but people have to focus on the initial pain/problems.
Tired but true: no pain, no gain. Congrats Apple !
PS MBA owners always needed dongles, no news here.
Exactly. Been a Apple user for a long time. Powerbook G4, Macbook Pro 15 2007 and the current Macbook Air 2011 (Sandy Bridge).
Always needed some kind of adapter or dongle for all of them. The DVI to VGA for the Macbook Pro and the USB to Ethernet, USB to VGA and USB to DVI for the Macbook air.
For the few cameras I've had never had 1 that used an SD Card (had some that used compactflash and some that used XD) so the SD card slot on my macbook air has been pretty much useless. Bought an SD card to use as additional storage (the ones that doesn't stick out) and guess what? I noticed a pretty huge battery drain (most noticeable while it is on standby) so I haven't really used it much and my SD card has been left in dust for more than a year.
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I agree, USB-C is a great move, but losing magsafe is a huge loss. My laptop has been saved a number of times because of it. Thankfully, it seems other makers are coming up with quick magnetic releases in place of MagSafe, so there's a work around at hand.
My apologies. Your initial statement left a bit of room for interpretations, which I read as a complaint on having to use dongles right now.
Quite frankly, I cannot see them changing the physical form factor of the ports any time soon, now that Thunderbolt and USB have converged to the same form factor, ergo my initial comment that using dongles now is an initial pain for long term gain.
Plus, it's not only about the not-killing-your-laptop-while-tripping-over-the-cable. Also the very act of connecting / disconnecting the charger with magsafe was such a great experience. You did not have to aim super precisely, it would just snap into place and you could disconnect it with one move.
With USB-C, the reversibility is great, but otherwise I find the plugging / unplugging to be a pretty unpleasant thing to do.
I guess one of the reason could be found from this article - only just came up with it now.
http://www.techradar.com/news/compu...in-usb-type-c-still-isn-t-up-to-snuff-1324563
Article was posted in July 2016.
Quote from the article: "We can only hope that with the next MacBook Pro, Apple leads a revolution in finally letting go of the USB Type-A standard we've been inexplicably clinging to for so long. There's clearly a better solution out there for charging, transferring data and connecting peripherals, why not embrace it fully?"
I agree with that and if there is even 1 single USB-A ports left it will slow down on people letting go.
Each of those non-USB C ports could have just as readily been a USB-C port.
So in your example, I could just as easily argue that Apple could have shipped a laptop with 8 USB-C ports instead of 4 USB-C ports and 4 assorted, single-purpose ports. It's not as though that USB-A, SD-card, HDMI or magsafe ports don't take up any space or possess internal circuitry of their own.
And what would be the harm exactly, if the adoption took a little longer due to people having a choice of how to connect their peripherals?
I mean, honestly, would the world become a better place if we all strive for the USB-C to become the only connector on all PCs by the end of 2017?
And what are the chances that those 4 USB-C ports will be utilised? If people can continue using the legacy ports because of what they already have, they are less likely to adopt the new standards. If the adoption rate is low, there's no incentive for other companies to make many devices that are compatible with the new USB-C ports. This is a recipe for stifling innovation.
How much longer are we talking about? Having a universal standard connector with high speed has more innovative potentials than what we have now. It would also simplify the lives of so many and make technology more accessible. For many of us who are tech-literate, we might take our skills for granted, but there are many people out there who are not like us. Just look at the back of your Windows PC if you have one. The number of different ports is likely to be staggering and defeating for somebody who is not too familiar with technology.
From personal experience, I've received plenty of calls from my parents for help with technology, and many of those calls were in relation to how to connect X to Y. If instead of dealing with HDMI, DVI, etc., all the ports work the same way, and the directions are reversible.
Honestly I'm more than happy to help them whenever, but I know deep down they always feel bad about having to "bother" their kid for something so trivial. I can imagine that there are plenty of people out there who are just the same.
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Man you're so right. I must've been smoking the really good stuff. Dell and HP led the way on adoption of usb-c/tb3 and Apple is following like usual. I'm gonna return this tb3 only having piece of **** tomorrow and replace it with the real deal Dell or HP. Thanks for saving me.
Id rather have 4 usb-c ports (and just change cables of devices) I could use for anything than having two thunderbolt 2 ports that I cant use without having an adapter or a device that uses TB2. (which is pretty hard to find here where I am from or is too expensive). Magsafe im kinda sad, its just easier to use. And the SD card slot removal is a pain in the ass 
Despite the lack of USB-C devices right now, I can see why Apple made this move. But poor MagSafe... I found that the USB-C connection is pretty secure, in another word it's very hard to pull out the USB connector, so the charging port of the MBP changed from being very easily coming off to another extreme. If I yank the cable, it's the end of the USB-C port (or the whole computer).
On the other hand, TB1/2 was too loose (even more than MagSafe), my TB to Ethernet adapter always comes off. So in terms of connecting to peripherals, USB-C is superior to TB1/2, but for the power cable, it's vastly inferior to MagSafe.
On the other hand, TB1/2 was too loose (even more than MagSafe), my TB to Ethernet adapter always comes off. So in terms of connecting to peripherals, USB-C is superior to TB1/2, but for the power cable, it's vastly inferior to MagSafe.
The problem is... the market won't catch up fast enough.
Case in point: USB 3.0 has been around for... how long? Considering that it's using the good ol' USB type A connector from way back, there was no problem with backward compatibility.
Now count how many USB 3.0 devices there are on the market. No, seriously, please do try to count them.
Then count how many Thunderbolt devices there are on the market, and realize just how long Thunderbolt has been around?
Please do also note that Thunderbolt was an open standard that other manufacturers could have adopted as well.
There is literally no native USB-C device on the market right now. Zero.
There are docks that might as well have been retooled Thunderbolt or USB 3.0 docks with pass-through power selling for a hefty premium if you really want to count those. Plus batteries. Plus some displays that, again, may well have been retooled Thunderbolt displays.
And if I have to wait 2, 3, or 4 more years to just barely see more devices on the market that I can use with my Macbook from... today, then why don't I just keep using my older Macbook until 4 years later? Or why don't I get one of those other devices that offer USB-C connectivity in conjunction with a multitude of other more regularly used ports?
Should Apple care? Technically no. They are making good money as usual, because there are those who buy into the promise rather than the utility. But at the same time, there are more of us now who see that the promise simply could not and cannot be fulfilled, and we are left wondering if we should keep investing.
I see Apple as having taken a long hard fall now after Mr. Cook took over. He is lacking the execution that Steve Jobs did. Simplicity is key, yes, but reductionism does not necessarily lead to simplicity (case in point: all of those with USB-C-only Macbooks have to live with dongles and adapters for at least one more year, whereas those of us who stuck to the last generation don't have to). This is a key concept in computing that I think some do not get.
Simplicity right now is simple: I go home, place my Macbook on the table, swipe the power cable over and it snaps into place, charging the computer. When I go out, I simply close the computer and just lift it away from the table, the power cable gently detaches itself, and I can tug the computer away. When I get to work, I just need to insert the Macbook into my Hengedock and I'm good to go. Everything is connected. When it's time to go home, I just detach the Macbook from the Hengedock.
So clearly, I don't seem to need USB-C right now with that dock. In fact, I'm seeing the inverse: people now need docks for their USB-C devices. So what problem was it supposed to solve again?
The problem with USB-C only machines is, by the time they are the industry standard, your laptop may not be still in use.
I know we have people here with laptops from 2008/2010/2012, but Apple aren't making the laptops like they used to back then. We have majority soldered on parts so a part failure means a full on replacement required. Additionally, if you are the few who don't suffer a fault, lot of those old-school MBP owners have upgraded their hard drives and RAMs to keep it usable, an option not available for us to keep our machines ticking for extra years.
So, although it might drive the industry to USB-C, we are now the guinea pigs who will now be inconvenienced for the privilege of others in the future. Right this moment in time, we aren't really reaping the benefits of this superior port.
(NB I am an owner of the non-touch 2016 rMBP 13")
I do feel some ports such as maybe the SD cards (or the SD card future replacement, if it exists), should have been kept. Is the industry ever going to move to a USB-C type storage for camera's? If not, I think this was a mistake.
I am happy about not worrying about HDMI (and then, which version?), mini-hmdi, DVI, VGA etc in the future. That is an ugly reality of today.
I know we have people here with laptops from 2008/2010/2012, but Apple aren't making the laptops like they used to back then. We have majority soldered on parts so a part failure means a full on replacement required. Additionally, if you are the few who don't suffer a fault, lot of those old-school MBP owners have upgraded their hard drives and RAMs to keep it usable, an option not available for us to keep our machines ticking for extra years.
So, although it might drive the industry to USB-C, we are now the guinea pigs who will now be inconvenienced for the privilege of others in the future. Right this moment in time, we aren't really reaping the benefits of this superior port.
(NB I am an owner of the non-touch 2016 rMBP 13")
I do feel some ports such as maybe the SD cards (or the SD card future replacement, if it exists), should have been kept. Is the industry ever going to move to a USB-C type storage for camera's? If not, I think this was a mistake.
I am happy about not worrying about HDMI (and then, which version?), mini-hmdi, DVI, VGA etc in the future. That is an ugly reality of today.
Because we are still getting Windows PCs at work with VGA ports on them. THAT is what happens when you keep offering ports.
Thunderbolt 1/2 connectors were actually Mini Displayport connectors. Like the previous generations Firewire connectors were actually Displayport connectors. That of course goes back to Apple/Sony losing control of ieee 1394 because of patent infringement.
Now a question is who was more responsible/influential in moving Thunderbolt 3 to the already coming usb-c connector, Intel or Apple?
Now a question is who was more responsible/influential in moving Thunderbolt 3 to the already coming usb-c connector, Intel or Apple?
For me personally, I am glad that I just need to carry one all-in-one hub that connects to my devices. Makes it really easy on a desk setup and I can deal with the small hassle when I travel of needing to connect a hub in the off-chance that I use an SD card or such.
The thing that got me thinking is the maturity level of these technologies and whether they just work. I think Apple (and some other companies) may have taken somewhat of a leap of faith on this.
And I am hoping that the new USB-C 'protocols' will only need a software update and not require a hardware refresh. If it stays true to that belief and no other alternative tech replaces USB-C then its a fantastic move and a far reaching one.
Take HDMI for example (quoting from that blog post):
"Many USB-C peripherals are limited in various ways as well. Consider a simple USB-C HDMI adapter: It could implement HDMI over USB 3.0 or it could use Alternate Mode (native) HDMI. It could also use HDMI “multiplexed” with Thunderbolt Alternate Mode or even (theoretically) implement HDMI over Thunderbolt using an off-board graphics chip!3 Of these options, only the newest computers, like the MacBook Pro, would support all three. Can you imagine the consumer confusion when they purchase a “USB-C HDMI adapter” only to find that it doesn’t work with their MacBook or Pixel or whatever?"
Time will tell, but I think overall it looks like some of the industry at-least has bought into the concept or idea behind USB-C. And if more companies move towards this vision, I think it's the best thing that could happen to simplify the cable world we live in today -- one for power, one for display, one for data and a gazillion other types.
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Completely false. I have a native USB-C USB stick.
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HDMI and Displayport are a mess anyway. It becomes an issue when a port needs to have hardware version numbers. You need HDMI 1.4 for this, or DisplayPort 1.2 for this.
I w
I would be perfectly happy to have a MagSafe type adapter connected to the power block. Same safety without something sticking out from the side of my MBP.
I would be perfectly happy to have a MagSafe type adapter connected to the power block. Same safety without something sticking out from the side of my MBP.
I think you might have missed what I was trying to convey. This new design is not meant to solve any problem as far as I'm concerned or know of anyway. Rather, it is an attempt at shifting the industry towards a new standard. Apple has made the decision to take the plunge first, hoping that their influence can shift the industry towards the USB-C port. Yes, it was a decision that wasn't going to be easy, but leaving it longer would only make the transition harder because people will continue to buy and use more legacy devices.
Do I expect the industry to completely adopt the USB-C standard within the life of this new machine? Realistically, no, but I'm still hoping. But as I've said, its release and design should shake up the industry to some extent, raise the awareness of USB-C, and the sales figures should give third parties a clearer picture with more certainties, therefore allowing them to produce more USB-C devices with confidence. Do you have to buy the latest machine if you have a MBP built within the last couple of years? I wouldn't. Given the pace of CPU improvement these days as an example, I'd say the 2015 MBP is an extremely solid machine that should last you for another couple of years at the minimum, depending on usage. For early adopters of the 2016 model, if they want to buy it, then they'll have to live with adaptors for a while. It is their choice. As I have mentioned in other posts, this is Apple's decision and there are plenty of choices out there. People should buy/use what would make them happy.
Regarding simplicity and the Hedgedock, it really depends on how you'd define it. The dock is all set up and connected to different peripheral/devices, and you only need to to connect your MBP to it. Yes, that is simple, and you can do the same with the new USB-C standard using a hub. Indeed it is not much different to how you're current set up, but you're using up all of your available ports with the current set up, which then spread out to a finite number of connections. With the new set up, you'd be doing the same but with one single port. This might not be beneficial for you personally, but perhaps another person might find it useful. Furthermore, the ability to interchange and use any of the ports in any configuration or direction...is that not also a way of defining simplicity?
As for USB 3 and its adoption rate, most people view it as for transferring of data or storage. How many of your ordinary everyday consumer knows the difference between USB3 and 2? They'd just pluck it in and use it. For the most part, they're more likely to buy the cheaper of the options, which is most likely USB2. Quite frankly, I don't really think they'd care one way or the other, as long as it works. Now let's assume these same ordinary consumers are faced with this new port, they have the options of adaptors to continue using their devices or buy something that is compatible. They'll probably buy the adaptors because not many things are available with the new connectors. At least then, the industry would have an idea of whether they should produce devices that natively support the new ports. Will this become true? I hope, and think yes. But seriously though, none of us have a crystal ball into the future with 100% certainty. Which is why it is a big gamble on Apple's part. I'm betting on Apple, but of course everyone has a choice of betting on whatever they want.
To put it more crudely, Apple has decided to let its customer experience the short term pain for the industry's long term gain
"Pioneering" is an odd word choice... they didn't. If anything they are holding the change back - it's been pioneered by the mutual agreement of all phone manufacturers, bar Apple.
I love USB-C. It's great.
But it's not 2020. I need other things too. USB-C only is fine for phones and tablets, it's absurd for real computers in2016.
I love USB-C. It's great.
But it's not 2020. I need other things too. USB-C only is fine for phones and tablets, it's absurd for real computers in2016.