Should Apple abandon the "pro/consumer" distinction in the laptop lineup?

[Digital Skunk]

I can see where the OP is coming from. Ever since the switch to Intel I have seen a distinct line drawn between the Pro and Consumer laptops. I can see Apple not making a naming difference into the line up if and only if Apple releases two new machines (13.3" MBP and 15" MacBook) and if Apple gave customers all the BTO options that existed.

That means, that you can get a MacBook with a 200GB 7200 rpm drive, or 64GB SSD, or even a dedicated GFX card. Basically do what Dell does with it's XPS line, since all of Apple's laptops are comparable to the XPS line. Don't hold anything back with BTO options, and then Apple can just tout their line as being extensive and fully customizable no matter what you want. The only difference left would be the FW800, backlit keyboard, 17" model, full size DVI w/dual link, and aluminum casing on one end, and none of that to save you money on the other end.

Personally, I don't think it would make much of a difference to most people's eyes, since they only see in price tag numbers, buying the machine that they want that is in their budget. But Apple would benefit slightly... very slightly from producing a 15" MacBook. Heavy yes, but a lot of PC users would love to go from their heavy 15" $1300 laptops to a Mac 15" laptop..

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

MacBook: Consumer product (albeit a very good one).
Great for email, surfing, web surfing, light video, music and photo editing.

MacBook Pro: Prosumer/Pro on the go product.
Dual-link DVI (supports the 30" ACD). On-board graphics card with up to 256MB of VRAM (soon to be 512MB). Great for all the day to stuff, and excels at editing of all multimedia assets.

The distinction is very real. The labels are useful. Why get rid of them? I love MacBooks, but anybody who thinks that a MacBook comes close to a MacBook Pro for Prosumer applications is fooling themselves.

In other words, if the Macbook had a real GPU in it, it would be nearly as good as a MBP. If a graphics card is the only reason they want to call one "pro" and one not, I'd say get rid of the distinction because unless you need FW800, there is no other large distinction other than screen size in the current lineup and an artificial limitation on buying a 2.2 versus 2.4 or 2.6 GHz CPU. They could just as easily put an option in a future lineup for integrated versus GPU card and remove the distinction entirely, IMO. Then people could hopefully choose the screen size they WANT and not be forced to a larger screen just because they need a better GPU. The consumer should be king, IMO. Let people have the hardware they really want, Apple, whatever the configuration.

 

[MrT8064]

is apple trying to force consumers who want a large laptop into buying an iMac?

Perhaps the reason so many people are buying laptops instead of desktops is because desktops are big, ugly, and power hungry... an iMac is Compact, Stylish and Economical.

i would love to know apples tactics.
The only reason i bought a MacBook Pro is because i wanted to play games, so i went and bought a second hand one. If apple had a graphics card in the MacBook, i would have been perfectly happy with the 13" screen, and lack of 'Pro' features. a gaming laptop was essential for me, cos i couldnt cart a desktop to school and back; now ive finished at school, i am wanting to get an iMac to replace my MacBook Pro.

 

[saltyzoo]

More flexible choices is always better. Well, except that that means more testing, more possible glitches due to minor incompatibilities, etc. etc.

But I don't see that as relevant to the question asked. The MB and MBP are clearly different models. Pro is just a marketing word chosen to describe the "betterness" of the MBP line. The backbone is distinctly different so a moniker to indicate that is appropriate.

 

[MrT8064]

flexibility is better for the consumer; but for the company, if they want to say 'if all you want is a 15incher, you gotta spend extra money on a heap of features you dont need' and people buy that product, its more profitable

 

[ClassicMac247]

absolutley not.

 

[Tshapi]

Bottom line. For the longest time apple has been known for being good for Graphics. The dedicated GPU is what makes the main difference.

if apple didn't make a distinction then people would start questioning why the 15 in is 500-1000 dollars more than the 13"

the word pro, tellls people aHH thats why

also apple designs each laptop for a specific section of the population.

Thats why in Jan, there will be (most likely) three lines.

consumer: MB
PRo:MBP
Corporate/heavy traveller: UPMBP


AS FOR A 13 REG MBP IF IT SHOWS UP IT WILL SHOW UP WITH THE NEXT REDESIGN

 

[heatmiser]

Apple will never merge their laptops (or desktops) into a unified line for the same reason airlines will never merge their seating arrangements into a continuum. The goal has always been to create artificial classes in order to divide the customer line. It's the same reason all sorts of corporations do this. The goal has never been to have all customers view themselves as equals, but to create hierarchies. The better to convince people that paying more will reflect their social stati, and, ultimately, values as human beings.

 

[MrT8064]

Apple will never merge their laptops (or desktops) into a unified line for the same reason airlines will never merge their seating arrangements into a continuum. The goal has always been to create artificial classes in order to divide the customer line. It's the same reason all sorts of corporations do this. The goal has never been to have all customers view themselves as equals, but to create hierarchies. The better to convince people that paying more will reflect their social stati, and, ultimately, values as human beings.

i do agree, if you see a white plastic computer you think 'meh - a mac' if you see a aluminum thin computer you think 'wow - that persons got style - its a mac'

 

[akm3]

I don't think Apple will cannibalize their own markets.

Though the killing of the education iMac, neglecting the Mini, and losing ground on the low end laptop have got to hurt in the education arena.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, are you saying the 17" imac was the education imac, or was that something different? If so they didnt' kill it off, they put a 20" imac in the same pricepoint as the old 17".

The Mini-neglecting is painful. I use an old Core (1) Duo 1.83 as my primary desktop and Media Center, and would love to purchase an upgraded one.

They aren't losing any ground in the education arena, they have been taking more and more market share in that space.

 

[akm3]

I like the idea that there is a:

13" and 15" "Macbook"
And a 13" 15" and 17" "Macbook Pro"

The Macbooks and Pro's are basically identical except upgraded internals in the pros (primarily dual link DVI and separate video card)

This still wouldn't cannabalize the Air which aren't performance laptops, and fit perfectly the niche they are designed for.

 

[GGJstudios]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, ....

You DO realize you're replying to a thread that is 9 months old, right?

 

[MrT8064]

You DO realize you're replying to a thread that is 9 months old, right?

Nothing wrong with that, all the same people are still here!

I really do think that the introduction of a 15" macbook would take away 70% of 15" macbook pro sales, which would mean a massive drop in profitability for apple!

 

[akm3]

You DO realize you're replying to a thread that is 9 months old, right?

HAHAH NO I actually did not.

I've done some thread resurrections before, but this one was an accident.

That's what I get for using search instead of just starting a new thread!

 

[GGJstudios]

That's what I get for using search instead of just starting a new thread!

It's still better to search before starting a new thread. Just keep an eye on the dates of the posts. If you use MRoogle to search the forums, you can date-restrict the results.

 

[akm3]

It's still better to search before starting a new thread. Just keep an eye on the dates of the posts. If you use MRoogle to search the forums, you can date-restrict the results.

True.

It's funny reading older threads that we are still all talking about exactly the same stuff, except some of the numbers are .16 higher, or whatever.

Nothing ever changes

 

[namethisfile]

my 2 cents

everyone knows that apple is kind of like the boutique house of the computer world. so, it makes sense that they have a limited lineup. i kind of like it this way for many reasons. of course, it's easier if apple listens to ya'll and make 11", 12", 13", 14", 15", 16", and 17" inch notebooks, while hitting all price-point gamuts and thus making "everyone happy." but, then apple would just be like any other computer manufacter out there.

first rule of apple is... innovate
second rule of apple is... innovate
third rule of apple is... you get the point

 

[namethisfile]

Apple will never merge their laptops (or desktops) into a unified line for the same reason airlines will never merge their seating arrangements into a continuum. The goal has always been to create artificial classes in order to divide the customer line. It's the same reason all sorts of corporations do this. The goal has never been to have all customers view themselves as equals, but to create hierarchies. The better to convince people that paying more will reflect their social stati, and, ultimately, values as human beings.

this is totally false. not only that, it is false in the grandest style.

 

[Beric]

everyone knows that apple is kind of like the boutique house of the computer world. so, it makes sense that they have a limited lineup. i kind of like it this way for many reasons. of course, it's easier if apple listens to ya'll and make 11", 12", 13", 14", 15", 16", and 17" inch notebooks, while hitting all price-point gamuts and thus making "everyone happy." but, then apple would just be like any other computer manufacter out there.

first rule of apple is... innovate
second rule of apple is... innovate
third rule of apple is... you get the point

First rule of Apple is... make as much money as possible.
Second rule of Apple is... force consumers to buy vastly more expensive laptops they don't need for one critical but inexpensive feature that model has.
Third rule of Apple is... have as high profit margins as possible (see #1).

Everything about Apple will cause them to keep the Pro and consumer lines distinct. Why? Because it would help the customer so much for them not to. The 13" MBP and the 15" or 17" MB are perfect examples. Take also the 13" MB with a screaming graphics card, or the thick, cheap 17" MBP that has great specs for power users, or the fact that "thinness" is the #1 limiting feature of Apple's lineup, and you'll see what I mean. Apple pretends to care about the customer, while really caring about profits, and using their extremely limiting, customer-hurting notebook line to help further that.

 

[namethisfile]

First rule of Apple is... make as much money as possible.
Second rule of Apple is... force consumers to buy vastly more expensive laptops they don't need for one critical but inexpensive feature that model has.
Third rule of Apple is... have as high profit margins as possible (see #1).

Everything about Apple will cause them to keep the Pro and consumer lines distinct. Why? Because it would help the customer so much for them not to. The 13" MBP and the 15" or 17" MB are perfect examples. Take also the 13" MB with a screaming graphics card, or the thick, cheap 17" MBP that has great specs for power users, or the fact that "thinness" is the #1 limiting feature of Apple's lineup, and you'll see what I mean. Apple pretends to care about the customer, while really caring about profits, and using their extremely limiting, customer-hurting notebook line to help further that.

hmmm... you should check that apple site again for your notebook references and let me know once you past 3rd grade economics.

 

[GGJstudios]

hmmm... you should check that apple site again for your notebook references and let me know once you past 3rd grade economics.

A couple helpful hints, if you don't mind. First, you can reduce the number of posts in a thread by quoting multiple people and responding to all of them in one thread. Second, when you quote someone, you can edit what you copy, to make the quoted text shorter, removing whatever doesn't relate to your reply. Hope this helps!

 

[megamouse]

it's called "market segmentation" pal

 

[Michael CM1]

They should just add a few more BTO options in each line and stop pretending like there are only about 10 different sets of needs across the computer user spectrum.

The lack of matte displays on the new iMacs irritates me. This is an absolute no-brainer option if you look at most displays sold. If the new design doesn't make it possible, it's a bad design. I hate glare, so do many others.

The MacBook lines need more USB ports and/or a nice metal custom-sized fan device that adds a bazillion ports, kinda like a docking station. My desk is all cluttered with the various USB hubs and devices, and I don't even use one for my keyboard/mouse. Everything else on the MacBook line seems to be OK aside from the lack of Blu-ray.

The desktops could use a little work. I already mentioned the iMac, and the ACDs need a little updating with things like USB ports, iSight (if you're not gonna sell the separate camera) and perhaps another feature or two I don't know about. The Mac Pro could take a cue from many PC makers and have extra drive bays available for easy upgrades and for a media port. My mom's Dell has a nicely hidden panel that has a bunch of flash memory card readers and extra USB/FireWire ports. There's also room for another drive that won't fugly the front.

Speaking of desktops, I hope Apple will start making a mid-tower that can be customized a lot like PCs. Just look at the low-end Dell Inspirons and you can see that it could be done nicely at a very low price. I don't want to spend $2500 to have the option of replacing stuff as simple as a damn video card.

 

[Hawkeye411]

No I don't think they should.

 

[MowingDevil]

Never happen. Thats like saying should theatres get rid of the different sizes for pop/popcorn and just have one size? They want you to buy the large, thats why its the best deal, they need the overpriced small there to convince you of that. However, if the large is too big/expensive then the small is always there so they don't loose your money.