Should I Buy A Macbook Pro Now?

[vanc]

Spotlight search window does flicker on UMBP when running on battery power. Other windows are perfectly fine. It should be driver issue as some people tested with 10.5.6 and no flickering.

I will install SL and see what will happen. I am a developer with ADC membership.

 

[La-vida227]

Once again...

There are a few isolated incidents with a particular panel / logic board issue. You seem to be saying that all 15-inch and 17-inch MacBook Pro's have these problems. And the majority don't.

I have myself used two brand new 15-inch MacBook Pro's - early 2009 and mid 2009, no such faults existed on those units!

You need to step away from your computer and get some air I think.

I've had three unibody MBPs and two of three have had flickering issues on both video cards. To me, that's the majority. If you're vast source of knowledge comes from seeing only two MBPs which don't flicker, then you definitely don't know what you're talking about.

 

[La-vida227]

Spotlight search window does flicker on UMBP when running on battery power. Other windows are perfectly fine. It should be driver issue as some people tested with 10.5.6 and no flickering.

I will install SL and see what will happen. I am a developer with ADC membership.

That type of flickering is a separate issue. We're discussing a flickering of the entire screen that can more easily seen with a white background.

 

[RiCEADDiCTBOY]

I've had three unibody MBPs and two of three have had flickering issues on both video cards. To me, that's the majority. If you're vast source of knowledge comes from seeing only two MBPs which don't flicker, then you definitely don't know what you're talking about.

the issue is not from the video card as when users connect to an external display the flickering does not persist on the external. apple is guessing either loose connection to laptop display or logic board. not the graphics card.

 

[La-vida227]

It's occurring only when I use the 9600.

Maybe I was unlucky. I'm on my second MBP with flickering issues. It happened in 10.5.6, and 10.5.7 didn't fix it.

There are threads on here, in Apple discussions, and on every other Mac-related site.

It appears to be a logic board problem. At least, that's what Apple is replacing to fix the issue.

OP, sorry for participating in the thread derail.

Apple has no idea what is causing the issue. I sent in my 15" UMBP (the 2.66 w/ 512vram), and they even had the technician call me to describe the problem, only to send the computer back with only a fixed infrared port (separate issue). Also, the technician was so deceptive on the AppleCare Service summary that they described their repair symptom as: "Distorted/Blurred/Non-Focus Video" when in reality all they did was replace a bracket that was causing the infrared port not to work. Believe me, when I called them to say that the flickering was still occurring, and they told me that they had only replaced a bracket (part of the fault IR port), but gave the illusion that they had fixed something with "distorted video" I was extremely pissed off.

CN: sent in computer, did not fix computer, and a service summary giving the illusion that they had fixed the problem... lost productivity for over a week

 

[La-vida227]

the issue is not from the video card as when users connect to an external display the flickering does not persist on the external. apple is guessing either loose connection to laptop display or logic board. not the graphics card.

I only said that it occurred on both video card's because some users had reported that it only occurred at certain temperatures on each card. I.e., something like when cold on 9400 and when the 9600 was hot... or it may have been the other way around

 

[Vulcan]

No. You should always wait until something better comes along.

So we should always wait...?

As the buyer's guide says... "Buy Now! - Product just updated"

 

[iMacmatician]

I've had three unibody MBPs and two of three have had flickering issues on both video cards. To me, that's the majority. If you're vast source of knowledge comes from seeing only two MBPs which don't flicker, then you definitely don't know what you're talking about.

And your source of knowledge comes from 3? And read his next post.

 

[gonewestcoast]

My philosophy has always been "if you need it, buy it." I waited until the day after they released the current edition before pulling the trigger on mine, just because I don't like seeing a new release drop a month later. However, if you're buying any technology product you can expect to take it in the shorts 3-9 months later when a new version drops.
The key to remember here is that this isn't the last laptop you're ever going to buy; it's a product that you can reasonably expect 3-5 years of service from, depending upon your use case; at which point it's time to pony up the cash again and get a new model.

 

[La-vida227]

And your source of knowledge comes from 3? And read his next post.

You cannot be serious. Out of three of my UMBPs two have had serious flickering issues and only my Matte 17" has moderate flickering issues.

Your post is a waste. If I have have this problem on the majority of my MBPs than it is not isolated, it is a serious problem. There are countless threads on this forum devoted to the flickering issue.



Finally, I am not asking for perfection, but if I spend as much money as I do on these laptops than I expect them to work better than a $400 dell. A brand new computer with a screen flickering (to ANY extent) is not acceptable. This problem occurs in far too many MBPs. And to make matters worse... they can't even fix it!

 

[gonewestcoast]

You cannot be serious. Out of three of my UMBPs two have had serious flickering issues and only my Matte 17" has moderate flickering issues.

Your post is a waste. If I have have this problem on the majority of my MBPs than it is not isolated, it is a serious problem. There are countless threads on this forum devoted to the flickering issue.

Technically your sample size is too small to state either way. You could have gotten a pair of machines with the issue that were part of a batch of 5 that had it; you also could have gotten two machines out of 50,000 that had it; looking at your data alone makes it impossible to say. I do know that of the people I know who bought the new models (and mine as well!) I haven't seen this issue, though I'll keep an eye out...

 

[La-vida227]

One last thought,

The screen flickering is extremely temperamental. I did not notice the problem for a month until I moved and started to work in a darker area. The darker area caused me to use a lower brightness setting and with a white background the flicker really started to appear. There are far too many variables for someone to say that because they have never seen it, it doesn't exist. In fact, at this point, I'm almost positive I could find it any new UMBP as I'm 3/3.

I read what MacAndy said about deploying these computers frequently and I know from experience that it's possible that his clients will never see the flicker unless they have it in a dark setting at a low brightness, which very well may not be the case in a corporate atmosphere.

 

[La-vida227]

Technically your sample size is too small to state either way. You could have gotten a pair of machines with the issue that were part of a batch of 5 that had it; you also could have gotten two machines out of 50,000 that had it; looking at your data alone makes it impossible to say. I do know that of the people I know who bought the new models (and mine as well!) I haven't seen this issue, though I'll keep an eye out...

It's not part of a specific batch for two reasons:

1. I bought the first 15" 2.66 512 vram in ~April (at the apple store in DE), the second 15" 2.66 512 vram in May (at the apple store in Baltimore), and the third 17" 2.8 512 vram Matte (the model updated last month) was purchased in June.
-The flicker is prevalent in three separate computers purchased in three separate months... at different stores!

2. Users across this forum are complaining about the problem... some deal with it while others can't stand it:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/596727/
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/593188/
etc.

 

[La-vida227]

This is a serious issue and it is important not to trivialize it because you cannot see it in your work environment.

To "test" for it, try the following:
1. Use computer in a dark environment i.e., lights off at night
2. Change the background to plain white
3. Perhaps try and use the computer while it is still cold
4. Watch the desktop and you'll become another statistic with screen flicker

5. Disappointment: This is where you send the computer in, explain the above verbatim to the technician who is "fixing" your computer only to receive the computer back at least a week later with the problem not addressed, and in my case, with a deceitful service summary.
6. Call Customer Relations again, spend 15 minutes explaining your case to each representative until you get to the supervisor... who will then tell you to send it in again
7. Bang head on wall

8. Post story on macrumors, be advised to write to Steve Jobs
9. Spend 15 minutes writing letter to Steve Jobs
10. Wait to never get a response

 

[jgo78]

This is a serious issue and it is important not to trivialize it because you cannot see it in your work environment.

To "test" for it, try the following:
1. Use computer in a dark environment i.e., lights off at night
2. Change the background to plain white
3. Perhaps try and use the computer while it is still cold
4. Watch the desktop and you'll become another statistic with screen flicker

5. Disappointment: This is where you send the computer in, explain the above verbatim to the technician who is "fixing" your computer only to receive the computer back at least a week later with the problem not addressed, and in my case, with a deceitful service summary.
6. Call Customer Relations again, spend 15 minutes explaining your case to each representative until you get to the supervisor... who will then tell you to send it in again
7. Bang head on wall

8. Post story on macrumors, be advised to write to Steve Jobs
9. Spend 15 minutes writing letter to Steve Jobs
10. Wait to never get a response

i can confirm, the problem is widespread and very common, as i have it with my original 15" umbp. I can also confirm that my new mid june 17" does not have the flicker so I guess some are good some are bad.

 

[jgo78]

this is a quote from someone who posted at apple disussions who thinks they may know what the problem is:

Hopefully I can shed some light (no pun intended) on the backlight flickering issue at low brightness. I have designed fpga controllers for LCD panels, and the issue is a combination hardware/firmware issue.

I purchased a uMBP in October and never saw any backlight flickering at low brightness with either GPU. I just received a newer uMBP and it shows the backlight flicker problem only on the 9400. It was immediately obvious what the problem is. The LCD panel has an underlying repetition rate as does the LED backlight controller since it uses PWM techniques to dim the lamps. Apple did not provide enough filtering on the LED PWM controller so the LED's are actually slightly flickering on their own at the rate of their PWM controller. This is not a problem on it's own as the PWM frequency is always high enough that the human eye can not perceive it. The problem is when this frequency or it's harmonics are close a frequency of the LCD, patterns will be created in the light intensity called beat patterns. Since these beat patterns are dependent on the absolute frequency of the LCD and LED PWM, and since each GPU and the LED PWM are sourced from different clocks, the issue will be different for every motherboard, and will vary with such things as voltage and temperature.

I verified my suspicions by slightly shifting the operating frequency of the LCD (not something anyone can do) and the problem went completely away. As I continued to change the frequency the problem would reoccur and subside as the two fundamental frequencies would beat against each other.

The solution would have been to provide better filtering of the PWM supply, but this is a typical trade off that even I would have made when designing a PWM dimming circuit. Also, typical white LED's have a fairly slow response time, so this was probably relied upon for some of the filtering. The other solution is to just shift the frequency of the LCD or LED PWM so that they don't beat. The problem here is again with the absolute frequency (over time, temp and voltage) on each motherboard.

So the bottom line is an LCD replacement will not affect this issue at all (although it may address some of the other issued raised in this thread), and a motherboard replacement is a hit or miss proposition at best, (unless Apple has made a hardware changed, but based on my new uMBP, they haven't) and even if it does appear to fix it at first, it may return later. My guess is (and this is only a guess) a firmware change could be made to shift the clocks to alleviate this problem. This is something I have done to my firmware designs, but is not always possible for other engineering reasons. Certainly the LCD clock rate can be shifted easily, but what complicates the solution is it needs to be universal across all notebooks and that can be a difficult thing to achieve.

So can anyone confirm that they have spoken to someone at Apple that has confirmed they know of the issue and are actively seeking a solution? Without this confirmation, I don't intend to send my MBP back as it can be a futile exercise as pointed out by others in this thread.

 

[drake]

So we should always wait...?

As the buyer's guide says... "Buy Now! - Product just updated"

Sarcasm.