Should I Buy an Intel Mac Today or Wait to Buy an Arm-Based Mac?

[prokanda]

I was just about due for an upgrade (had a 15" MBP touch bar) and wanted to have Boot Camp (I have two eGPU desks, one for macOS and one specifically for Windows gaming). The fiancé and I both have a MBP eGPU setup, but he's not ready to upgrade yet. I saw a good deal on the 16" i9 model and grabbed it. I'm excited for Apple's ARM-based Macs, but like having a single machine for everything. Just boot to the OS I want, and connect the TB3 cable on that desk, with a Drobo serving all of my media across the network, accessible from either OS. I am a bit sad that my next upgrade will mean the death of my "single machine" setup, but we decided that when that time comes, we're just gonna add an Intel NUC to the Windows gaming setup (they can connect to the eGPU setup the same as our current MBPs) and call it a day.

 

[nylonsteel]

arm macs concept is interesting and promising
not a fully consumer tested product yet
may be a disaster or something "insanely great"
probably gunna cost alot - may have bugs to work out
if i needed a new mac now - i would buy the new imacs - upper specs
wait and see how the new arms work for a year or more
then finally make the plunge into an arm mac if all goes well

 

[gnasher729]

My opinion is that the current intel Mac Pro will live on until Apple can ensure that their own silicone is compatible with most pro users equipment/components. Or until the majority of software developers make their software compatible with Apples ARM.

If I had to guess maybe 5 years until an ARM Mac Pro appears. Or who knows maybe Apple sticks with intel for just the Mac Pro line?

ARM will be compatible with everything that is compatible with the latest MacOS - which isn't everything. And not compatible with Bootcamp and for a while not with Intel VMs. That is of course either a dealbreaker, or totally irrelevant, depending where you are.

As far as ARM Mac Pro is concerned, there are 64 core ARM chips available from third parties. So Apple _can_ build an ARM Mac Pro if they want to. Whether they want to use any third party chips is doubtful.

I think people using VMs often use many, and often need a powerful Mac, so the most powerful Intel Macs will survive longest. Or even when an equally powerful ARM Mac is there.

 

[coolspot18]

may be a disaster or something "insanely great"
probably gunna cost alot - may have bugs to work out

It'll probably be like Surface X, "it works, but wait".

And not compatible with Bootcamp and for a while not with Intel VMs. That is of course either a dealbreaker, or totally irrelevant, depending where you are.

There is Windows 10 ARM... or perhaps they'll run a VM, but performance will be middling like the Surface X.

 

[Michael Scrip]

There is Windows 10 ARM... or perhaps they'll run a VM, but performance will be middling like the Surface X.

Is the poor performance of the Surface Pro X due to the hardware? Or Windows-on-ARM? Or both?

I'm expecting ARM Macs to be very powerful. So they should still be plenty fast even running VMs or emulation.

 

[coolspot18]

Native support for IOS apps will be a surprising boost for OSX gaming and app variety... Somehow this fact never hit me until they actually pointed it out at the WWDC presentation...

You may see a lot of mobile games on OSX, but I doubt developers are going to invest heavily on Mac gaming.

Is the poor performance of the Surface Pro X due to the hardware? Or Windows-on-ARM? Or both?

ARM CPUs for desktop computing are slower than Intel processor. Combined with immature operating system, need for virtaulization to run legacy applications, overall it will be slower than an Intel laptop.

I'm at a loss as to why Apple continually switches platforms - ARM isn't fully mature as a desktop platform, and by switching very decade to an entirely new processor really makes me question if Apple is viable for serious work - this sort of change is very distruptive with minimal benefits in the near term.

I'm expecting ARM Macs to be very powerful. So they should still be plenty fast even running VMs or emulation.

Don't bet on it - they'll run fine, but won't be as powerful as a top of the line i7.

 

[chucker23n1]

ARM CPUs for desktop computing are slower than Intel processor. Combined with immature operating system, need for virtaulization to run legacy applications, overall it will be slower than an Intel laptop.

Virtualized, yeah, maybe. With native apps, which will quickly be the majority? I think you'll be eating your hat…

 

[joloriquelme]

After many hours reading, I decided to buy now a 2020 13" MBP with 10th Intel Core i5, 16 GB and 512 GB. Plenty of Hardware for the next 2 or 3 years.

This is my very first Mac, and I am starting a transition period from a Windows Notebook, so Parallels or Boot Camp could be useful some time.

I will keep that device until Apple stop releasing new full macOS versions. I think this will be in 2 or 3 years (4 years would be a miracle). For that time, I don't think I will need Windows anymore.

Also, my daughter will be 10 or 11, so, it will be a perfect birthday gift.

 

[s66]

It's not just an ARM based CPU, there's much more around the ARM parts that make it an Apple Silicon machine, such as the neural engine, the GPU, the secure enclave, ... all of those help the performance and abilities way beyond what a mere (set of) ARM core(s) could.

I'm far more more worried about my existing Intel baseed macs' life expectancy as the ASi machines roll out. Sure they'll run the new OS for a few years and 3rd parties will make their initial binaries universal, but how long will they continue doing that?
The new ASi based machines will have Rosetta 2, but there's not going to be the reverse for the old Intel based macs.

Of course I never used bootcamp (rebooting my machine TWICE to use one program - NUTS). As to parallels: yes I had a need for quite a few years, but I've cancelled that subscription and no intention of going back anymore. All I used it for was making suer that my websites worked properly in crap IE versions - no need anymore for that.

So for me (and we have quite a few macs we use ranging from 13" laptops over mini's to MP7.1s): no upgrades anymore till ASi machines are out there that are good enough to replace them.

 

[JustLilOlMe]

Unless Apple changes the word "Years" into an actual number, we will not be purchasing any more intel Macs. I've got burned so many times from Apple, that they lost my trust in things like this. They used and continue to repeat the word "years" for a reason and I don't like it. Very poor marketing on their part to create this uncertainty. I guess they don't care that Mac sales are going to tank for the next two years.

If apple products weren't so easy to use, I would've left them a long time ago; I still might. I hate how they keep everything a secret, and then catch everyone off guard when they release something. I guess it's how they get rid of their old stuff, but it sucks for the customers. Plus, I think their devices are getting cheaper, not in terms of money, but quality. Maybe that's just been my experience though...

 

[JustLilOlMe]

Power Mac G5 Quad got one major OS update. One. It was a $3K+ machine at the time.
I wouldn't bet the farm on long term support for Intel Macs. This is a company that drives profits by new hardware sales. Sure, the machines will be "good" for ages, but Apple will start dropping support first chance they get.

You're right, and I get that it's "business," but it should also be good practice to treat your customers better. imho I mean, it's not like they give any price breaks on their products or anything like that. They charge a lot for things, and then on a dime move on to something else, and you're left with something that might not even be able to work as intended that much longer. Just look at the phones; constant updates even when there is not that much of an improvement in the new version. Then, they all get glitchy in a year, maybe two, so you have to go out and get a new one. smh If I was more computer savvy, I would have switched to something else I guess, but I'm not so I haven't...sorry rant over. lol

 

[chucker23n1]

Power Mac G5 Quad got one major OS update. One. It was a $3K+ machine at the time.

That's rather misleading. If there had been annual macOS updates like there are now, it would've seen several of them. It shipped with 10.4 and got 10.5, but didn't get 10.6 in 2009; it probably would've seen 10.4 through 10.7 at a similar pace. So, three major updates.

 

[Jinnnnnnn]

I am still using my 2014 13' rmbp which is only suitable for daily use now. Really painful when I have to deal with some high resolution photos and play game. SO I am thinking about getting myself the new 27' iMac, I guess there is no point for me to wait, right? as Apple are not going to release a larger size of arm iMac anyway.

 

[blodyholy]

Let's not forget the PPC transition was supposed to start June 2006 and finish at the end of 2007. Apple ended up starting earlier and finishing August 2006.

If the transition proceeds smoothly I can't imagine Intel macs being sold after 2021

Correct. From what I remember the transition was a sh*t show. Apple promised support for "years to come", but I believe that lasted only a few years (while technically correct in the "few years" term), it left a lot of users in the lurch.

 

[Gerdi]

Is the poor performance of the Surface Pro X due to the hardware? Or Windows-on-ARM? Or both?

The performance is lower than Intel based products, because people use benchmarks using emulation when doing a comparison. On top of this they comparing a 7W TDP devices like the Surface Pro X with devices with much higher TDP.

If you compare likes with likes, say the SQ1 processor in the Surface Pro X with Intel recently released Lakefield line of cores, which happen to be 7W TDP as well then things look very different. Surface Pro X outperforms the best what Intel offers in this TDP range (Lakefield) by a factor of 1.5-2 on native code and still can pull equal under emulation.

Surface Pro X also compares well against 15W TDP Intel devices, for instance Surface Pro 7 with Icelake. It is slightly slower in Blender but slightly faster in 7Zip benchmarks for example.

Of course if you a running 7Zip or Blender benchmark under emulation and not the native version, then performance is cut in half roughly.

In summary the Surface Pro X is easily the fastest 7W and below Windows device and probably the fastest 7W and below Linux device when running native SW. Now both titles could very well go to the AS Macs once they are released (and assuming we can run Windows in VM)

 

[developer13245]

IF AS Macs were going to ship by "End of year", then manufacturing ramp-up would be starting now.

FWIW, Apple has suddenly resumed "approving" Universal App Quick Start Program applications.
This could be a sign the Apple silicon (AS) transition is running into unexpected delays? If AS manufacturing resources would otherwise be ramping commercial units that are not RTM yet, why not continue to produce DTK hardware?

 

[adib]

There is a high chance that Adobe Flash won't transition to Apple Silicon. There is a lack of evidence that Adobe is investing in porting efforts to the new processor.

With Flash gone, this could also affect Flash-based services and applications. Notable ones includes Adobe Connect and Rosetta (the language learning software, not emulation one).

 

[RPG97]

Earlier this year in May, I decided to make the big decision to purchase a 2019 Mac Pro. It was everything I could have dreamed of: a modular desktop tower PC that is designed beautifully and runs macOS. Of course, I had heard about the ARM rumors, but was caught off guard when they announced the transition a month later. I also purchased a 2020 13" MBP for mobile use to accompany it. Between these two machines I've got over $10,000 invested.

I've been an Apple fan for the last decade and own many of their products. If they burn me like they did to Power Mac G5 buyers (ie my Mac Pro is only software supported for 2-3 years), I will have to think long and hard about giving Apple any of my money ever again.

 

[Solve4X]

I have just bought 2 MBAs (2020) and a 16" MBP (8Tb SSD, 64Gb RAM). These machines seem to hit a sweet spot for light mobile and graphic-intensive work respectively. I did think twice about each purchase, but it seems like stable Apple Silicon machines are at least two years out.

 

[jhanly]

Personally, I'm waiting. I have a 2018 15" MBP and have been very tempted to get a 16", but with the upcoming Apple-powered Macs, I'm perfectly happy waiting for them to be released. I've been testing Big Sur on my old 2013 MBA, and it's pretty nice, so I'm excited to see what happens with the new chipsets

Well i just bought the new iMac 27" that was just announced. My old machine is a 2010 27" iMac and the drive is failing. I decided I couldn't wait. I'm as interested as anyone about the new ARM-based macs but i don't know when the new ARM iMacs will appear.

 

[xmlninja]

In a few years, ipad pro and macbook pro will be the same product.

Apple started by introducing the swift language which made it easier to develop apps for ios and macos. Now macos 11 comes along which can be run on arm based machines, which basically means that macos11 could be run on an ipad.

Over the next 2 years app developers will adapt their macos apps to arm based architecture.

Dont be confused if ipados and macos comes closer to each other during the next couple of years.

 

[chucker23n1]

In a few years, ipad pro and macbook pro will be the same product.

Why anger both iPad and Mac users when you can instead sell to either (and in some cases both)?

 

[xmlninja]

Why anger both iPad and Mac users when you can instead sell to either (and in some cases both)?

Good question. To stay relevant.

 

[rme]

The first generation Intel MacBooks came with 32-bit processors, and 6 months later we got models with 64-bit processors.
Looks like this year's A14x models will stay on the ARM v8 instruction set, and next year we'll get ARM v9.
I'm going to wait till then.

 

[pdoherty]

In a few years, ipad pro and macbook pro will be the same product.

Apple started by introducing the swift language which made it easier to develop apps for ios and macos. Now macos 11 comes along which can be run on arm based machines, which basically means that macos11 could be run on an ipad.

Over the next 2 years app developers will adapt their macos apps to arm based architecture.

Dont be confused if ipados and macos comes closer to each other during the next couple of years.

Sounds great to me. I’d love to have a tablet that’s portable like my current iPad, that when I get home I can dock and attach to a large screen monitor, full-size keyboard and mouse and use as a desktop while it charges.