Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Who the heck is paying $100/year for AV software?

I agree. I pay 24.99 or so for System Suits after a rebate(for my old PC) and even Norton is only 39.99 and the full Norton security is only 69.99 I don't know anyone paying 100.00 for anti virus especially where you have descent free ones out there too.
To the OP, is this your 1st big item you ever got? When I bought my 1st item that was over 1000.00 I was so upset, but after a few it doesn't even phase me anymore.
 
I agree. I pay 24.99 or so for System Suits after a rebate(for my old PC) and even Norton is only 39.99 and the full Norton security is only 69.99 I don't know anyone paying 100.00 for anti virus especially where you have descent free ones out there too.
To the OP, is this your 1st big item you ever got? When I bought my 1st item that was over 1000.00 I was so upset, but after a few it doesn't even phase me anymore.

Why would you even pay for security software? Not enough common sense on your behalf ? :D
 
Why would you even pay for security software? Not enough common sense on your behalf ? :D

I was looking for something close to $100.00. Besides they are good if you have young ones playing on a PC... or a wife :D
(If my my wife reads this, you know I am kidding :D I know you're pretty good with computers and stuff)
 
That is true, there is more to a computer than just the parts. However, when you bring this argument up, it shows how Macs fail in an even greater sense.

Didnt feel like quoting your rebuttal, You must be a lawyer because you are adept at twisting my arguments to suit your points.. Touche to you on that.

You might be correct about the stability (or lack thereof) of OSX, I dont own one so I might be in for a rude awakening.

Ok lets start with your Points

1. Design:
You claim that "The UniBody systems are no more than HP's old two tone and glass design combined with Sony's keyboard in a metal frame". Wow, you are a bit clueless. That is like saying "A pretty person with a nice body is no more than an ugly person with a nice face" or that a pair of designer jeans is no more than "$30 walmart jeans with the details of a pair of diesel jeans and the cut of a pair of dior jeans". An to compare HP design with apple shows how little of a premium you place on design. A Mac computer is a piece of artwork, a functional blend of Aluminum and glass, fused together in an almost seamless manner. The designs are the epitome of understated elegance. No cheap tacky extra buttons, or unsightly ports, or annoying led's. I realize that design is subjective, but all the design aficionados all love (and own Macs). Design has nothing to do with durability so throwing in arguments about how plastic is more durable than Aluminum is a moot point. That is not Apple's fault, this fact is unique to the properties of Plastic vs. Aluminum. Apple likely picked Aluminum for aesthetics, stability and low weights vs. Plastic. If you didnt like the Aluminum perhaps you should have bought a HP or Sony laptop and hacked it to run OSX

2. My Car analogy between Macs and PC's

You claim that "The difference between a Porsche and a Nissan, or a Honda and a BMW, is much different than the difference between a Mac and a PC. BMW and Porsches are built much better. Everything from the various components in the engines, to the seats, to even the mountain brackets for the seats are all of MUCH higher quality than a Nissan or Honda."

Definately not TRUE !!!! While BMW's are engineered more precisely than Honda's and Nissans, they are not better built. Almost all German luxury cars start rattling past 50K miles (My last car was an Audi A4 and my dad has always owned BMW's) but most of their non luxury japanese counterparts dont suffer from this condition. BMW's are more expensive because they use less to accomplish more and they perform and handle much better than their non luxury peers. Yes they use more expensive materials, but their overall quality on all levels is worse than the Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans...

However, I do agree that you can shoot a lot of holes in my argument so I tip my hat to you in this regard. I was just trying to emphasize the point that Speed and Specs DO NOT make a system.

You claim that specs mean that something is more capable. That is incorrect. Most of the HTC phones that sport windows mobile have far better specs than an iphone. However the iphone wipes the floor with them because of its far more intuitive software. A 296 HP .96g Porsche cayman is faster than a 337HP 1.01g Nissan 370z in both a straight line and around a track despite having less "Specs". Plus the 370z has more features (i.e better Nav system, Bluetooth, Rev matching trans... e.t.c) than the more expensive Porsche, but the Porsche is still the choice of the automotive enthusiast who CAN afford it. Yes I know there are a lot more reasons for this choice, but when it all comes down to it, the Nissan has more "Specs" but is still inferior. The Windows mobile phones have more specs but are still inferior. When will you people understand that above a certain point (and to most users) hardware means nothing. "Wow you can get a 2.96GHZ PC for cheaper than a MAC, and it comes with HDMI, 1TB hard drive, Blu-ray ... 6GB of RAM, 17" WSXGA scrreen and it costs $900", Look, I am not speaking for anyone but myself, but I dont need 1TB, or HDMI, I dont need Blu-ray on such a small screen (next thing you are going to be asking to 1080P on a 10" TV). I know Blu-ray always has better quality but I really dont care.. How much is good enough ??? I dont need the very best hardware. I just need hardware that is good enough. Right now I use the supplied Iphone earbuds to listen to music. Its quality is barely passable. I have owned countless other buds that have better sound quality (and cost more) but in the end I picked the apple ones because they are good enough. There is better but I dont care, this is good enough. Thats the reason why a lot of MAC users buy them. They have excellent software, a good and appealing user interface, killer design, less hassle, and their hardware is good enough (for most users). So there you have it....
 
Didnt feel like quoting your rebuttal, You must be a lawyer because you are adept at twisting my arguments to suit your points.. Touche to you on that.

You might be correct about the stability (or lack thereof) of OSX, I dont own one so I might be in for a rude awakening.

Ok lets start with your Points

1. Design:
You claim that "The UniBody systems are no more than HP's old two tone and glass design combined with Sony's keyboard in a metal frame". Wow, you are a bit clueless. That is like saying "A pretty person with a nice body is no more than an ugly person with a nice face" or that a pair of designer jeans is no more than "$30 walmart jeans with the details of a pair of diesel jeans and the cut of a pair of dior jeans". An to compare HP design with apple shows how little of a premium you place on design. A Mac computer is a piece of artwork, a functional blend of Aluminum and glass, fused together in an almost seamless manner. The designs are the epitome of understated elegance. No cheap tacky extra buttons, or unsightly ports, or annoying led's. I realize that design is subjective, but all the design aficionados all love (and own Macs). Design has nothing to do with durability so throwing in arguments about how plastic is more durable than Aluminum is a moot point. That is not Apple's fault, this fact is unique to the properties of Plastic vs. Aluminum. Apple likely picked Aluminum for aesthetics, stability and low weights vs. Plastic. If you didnt like the Aluminum perhaps you should have bought a HP or Sony laptop and hacked it to run OSX

2. My Car analogy between Macs and PC's

You claim that "The difference between a Porsche and a Nissan, or a Honda and a BMW, is much different than the difference between a Mac and a PC. BMW and Porsches are built much better. Everything from the various components in the engines, to the seats, to even the mountain brackets for the seats are all of MUCH higher quality than a Nissan or Honda."

Definately not TRUE !!!! While BMW's are engineered more precisely than Honda's and Nissans, they are not better built. Almost all German luxury cars start rattling past 50K miles (My last car was an Audi A4 and my dad has always owned BMW's) but most of their non luxury japanese counterparts dont suffer from this condition. BMW's are more expensive because they use less to accomplish more and they perform and handle much better than their non luxury peers. Yes they use more expensive materials, but their overall quality on all levels is worse than the Toyotas, Hondas, and Nissans...

However, I do agree that you can shoot a lot of holes in my argument so I tip my hat to you in this regard. I was just trying to emphasize the point that Speed and Specs DO NOT make a system.

You claim that specs mean that something is more capable. That is incorrect. Most of the HTC phones that sport windows mobile have far better specs than an iphone. However the iphone wipes the floor with them because of its far more intuitive software. A 296 HP .96g Porsche cayman is faster than a 337HP 1.01g Nissan 370z in both a straight line and around a track despite having less "Specs". Plus the 370z has more features (i.e better Nav system, Bluetooth, Rev matching trans... e.t.c) than the more expensive Porsche, but the Porsche is still the choice of the automotive enthusiast who CAN afford it. Yes I know there are a lot more reasons for this choice, but when it all comes down to it, the Nissan has more "Specs" but is still inferior. The Windows mobile phones have more specs but are still inferior. When will you people understand that above a certain point (and to most users) hardware means nothing. "Wow you can get a 2.96GHZ PC for cheaper than a MAC, and it comes with HDMI, 1TB hard drive, Blu-ray ... 6GB of RAM, 17" WSXGA scrreen and it costs $900", Look, I am not speaking for anyone but myself, but I dont need 1TB, or HDMI, I dont need Blu-ray on such a small screen (next thing you are going to be asking to 1080P on a 10" TV). I know Blu-ray always has better quality but I really dont care.. How much is good enough ??? I dont need the very best hardware. I just need hardware that is good enough. Right now I use the supplied Iphone earbuds to listen to music. Its quality is barely passable. I have owned countless other buds that have better sound quality (and cost more) but in the end I picked the apple ones because they are good enough. There is better but I dont care, this is good enough. Thats the reason why a lot of MAC users buy them. They have excellent software, a good and appealing user interface, killer design, less hassle, and their hardware is good enough (for most users). So there you have it....
I enjoyed reading your posts and I do agree with you, but you have to remember who you're arguing with.
mosx bought a Mac sometime ago. He was happy at 1st then complained about OSX and did nothing but put it down and tell us how Windows is better, and OXS is crap.
So time has passed and what does mosx do? He buys another Mac. Now IMO he lost all creditability.
 
I just finished school a few years ago. Most books weigh more than the 6 pound computer, so it makes little difference if you have a system that weighs 5 or 6 pounds. Especially when that 6 pound system is good enough to be your primary system and will give you better entertainment than the current generation of game consoles. Unlike the MacBook which is akin to a very expensive netbook (secondary system) with an optical drive.



So you're willing to spend 2-3x the price just to have a case that looks prettier, in your opinion, than a more well built and considerably more powerful PC? I mean, if you want to discuss build quality and you're concerned with it, HP and Dell's business systems are built like tanks and come with 3 year warranties as standard, as well as optional on-site support and damage protection.



.


Regarding weight, I too went to school, I had heavy books as well, and I CAN DEFINATELY tell you that EVERY OUNCE COUNTS. I carried my 1.25" thick, 5.5 pound dell laptop everywhere. Every ounce counts. As for thinness of the case, it matters. I feels nicer to type of slimmer laptops. Thinner laptops (to a certain pt) are much easier to hold and move around. On paper .25" does not seem like much but in person, it is much more dramatic. Cmon, dont even go there, I am quite suprised that you will dismiss weight in this manner. You should know better. A lot of people buy Macbooks vs. the Pros mainly because of this fact. Same reason for the appeal of the air and other ultra light laptops. Your argument doesnt even hold in this regard. Not at all.

As for cost, Heck yeah I am willing to spend 1.3 - 1.5x - aka 25 to 50% more (where did you get the 3x from) just to get what I consider to be a superior (on every level) design and user experience. I dont care about specs. People pay more to get what they want. Dont tell me about the build quality of Dells like I dont own one right now. My dell is racked with all sorts of issues (most of which happened within a year of owning it. 2 HD crashes, screen issues, .... But is has been quiet for the past 2 years). My work laptop is a dell and it is even worse than my personal PC. It has a really thick case, and is heavy as heck. I wouldnt even use it for school if it was offered to me for FREE. Thats how particular I am about the balance of features and functionality. "But wait, it only weighs 2 pounds more than a Macbook, 2 pounds should not make a difference". It really does, and I can attest to that fact after owning it for 2 years. The best designed PC's are sony's and they typically cost more than apple when equipped similarly (they usually have slightly better hardware specs though). Why are they expensive ? Its because they are better designed (subjective). Great design costs money, look around you to confirm that fact.
Anyway, to close my long winded statements, your logic is sound in a lot of areas but you place very little premium on design, style, and preference. You assume that consumers are all value driven. Who defines value anyways ? I define value as getting what I want. A Mac is what I want. A Mac is what I am getting (tomorrow :). If you want something different, get something different. But dont come here and complain to others who are content with what they have. Most of us are technology savvy and are quite aware of pricing out there. Ok, I understand its a free world so we are all entitled to our opinions, and this IS a public forum so I really should quit whining...
Ok I will.. It was nice arguing with you :) I hope the OP has enough info from both sides of the fence to make an informed decision....
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.