Should I return MBP & go to Windows 7?

Discussion in 'Buying Tips and Advice' started by philosopherdog, Aug 26, 2010.

  1. philosopherdog macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    Dec 29, 2008
    #1
    Just bought a MBP 15 inch. Awesome machine. I'm getting into web development. I'm using CS5 for much of my work. Trouble is CS5 Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc. run like crap on OS X. Spaces doesn't even work. And even command tabbing is difficult with Spaces enabled. What a drag. Adobe blames Apple, and Apple I'm sure blames Adobe. Thing is, I'm not really interested in the Apple/Adobe war. I just want my computer to work! So, I'm wondering whether I can live with CS5 flaked out like this or should I go to Win7. I could run Win7 under bootcamp and that's a possibility. The alternative is I could return the MBP and pay the restocking fee on it (I have 6 days to decide), and build a workstation with Win7 powering it. Thoughts? Look I love Apple hardware as much as you do, but OS X Spaces is a bug fest.
     
  2. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #2
    Apple hardware is same as hardware in PCs so if you aren't too fussed about OS X, just make the switch. The main reason to get a Mac in the first hand is OS X. If you like Windows 7 more, then a PC is definitely better
     
  3. BittenApple macrumors 6502a

    BittenApple

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  4. osxabsd macrumors member

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    #4
    Hellhammer, you always have insightful comments. You said "Apple hardware is same as hardware in PCs". From the computing aspects, i.e., CPU, memory, etc. for the most part I would agree with you. But from a general parts, key board case etc., would not Apple products (in general) be of higher quality?
     
  5. Hellhammer Moderator

    Hellhammer

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    #5
    Depends what you compare it with. The aluminum body is something that you can't find from a PC that easily and the multitouch trackpad is amazing, so you're right, there are parts that are higher quality than standard PCs. However, I don't think they are enough to justify the price difference between a Mac and PC, at least for me so I wouldn't make my decision based on body and trackpad.

    There are PCs which are trying to match MBPs though so the gap is narrowing all the time. For example, the HP Envy is trying to be competitive with MBP with its partial aluminum body.
     
  6. waynechriss macrumors regular

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    Sep 7, 2009
    #6
    Same with the Asus TimelineX, it has an aluminum body: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003LL2D0A/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
     
  7. Ryan1524 macrumors 65816

    Ryan1524

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    #7
    As far as I know, Adobe suite runs BETTER on OSX. I run Illustrator and Photoshop CS5 on my MBP. Smooth as silk.
     
  8. dal20402 macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    #8
    A Spaces equivalent is not included with Windows 7 (although, as with OS X, there are third-party tools that do the job).

    If Spaces is the only thing bugging you, it's probably easier to turn it off on your Mac than to change OSes.
     
  9. mcpryon2 macrumors 6502

    mcpryon2

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    Dec 12, 2008
    #9
    Hmm, interesting. I use Dreamweaver and Photoshop at work on my 13" MBP and it works just as well as my Windows laptop. And I live off of Spaces on my 13". I'm like a little monkey working Spaces...

    I wonder if there is another issue.

    Can you elaborate on Spaces not working?

    Have you tried anything like repairing permissions?
     
  10. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    Dec 29, 2008
    #10
    Thanx everyone for the excellent posts. I'm glad to hear you have spaces working on your 13"! Maybe there is hope. I just changed one of the settings in spaces that seems to have cleared up some of the glitches, namely, "when switching to an application, switch to a space with open windows for that application" see this image. But if I open an image in photoshop and then go to the spaces view you only see the image not the toolbars here's an image. I guess the other main thing that's bothering me is if I have an image in photoshop or a page in dreamweaver and I click the desktop beside the image photoshop or the page disappears but the image sits there like this. Also if I try to assign a space to an adobe program in the settings this is ignored completely. I must say I was having many more problems before I changed the above setting. Maybe I can learn to live with it.

     
  11. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    Dec 29, 2008
    #11
    that's a thought. spaces is pretty essential to my workflow. too bad there don't seem to be any 3rd party solutions because I'd love to be able to turn it off.

     
  12. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    #12
    Are you using them with spaces?

     
  13. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    Dec 29, 2008
    #13
  14. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    #14
    I seem to recall the Envy getting toasted on Lifehacker some time ago. Anyhow, although many components are the same, I think the build quality cannot be matched by anyone else making machines. I'm sure I don't need to go into the many reasons the MBP is an amazing machine on this list. If there were a viable alternative in a notebook computer I never would have switched in the first place. The only alternative for me would be a desktop that I build.

     
  15. SidBala macrumors 6502a

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    Jun 27, 2010
    #15
    Imo get the win7 workstation. For the price of a MBP 15, you can build a very powerful workstation with an awesome monitor and all.
     
  16. chrono1081 macrumors 604

    chrono1081

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    #16
    +1 I used my macbook pro verses my windows workstation at work for this very reason. Ive had no problems with cs5 and spaces. I'm thinking maybe your install is messed up.

    That being said adobe is not the company it used to be after it bought up macromedia. Their cs suites have been riddled with bugs and issues as of late. Make sure you keep updating.
     
  17. Giuly macrumors 68040

    Giuly

    #17
    How much RAM does your machine have? More RAM might be the key, if you bought some older 15" MacBook Pro with 2GB RAM.
    I don't do anything fancy like Audio/Video and I run short on 8GB RAM sometimes. I rely on heavily tabbing in safari, though.
     
  18. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    Dec 29, 2008
    #18
    Do this test to see if CS5 is compatible with Spaces

    CS5 doesn't obey spaces on my machine. Please confirm if it does on yours by following this simple test. Open photoshop is space 2 and Quicktime in space 1. Make sure the "when switching to an application" box is checked in the spaces settings. Now use command tab to switch back to PS from space 1 with QT open. What does it do? Does it switch you to space 2 where PS was opened, or does it just open PS in space 1 with QT in the middle? On my machine it doesn't switch to space 2 with PS, but remains in space 1 and PS appears to have moved to space 1! That looks like a pretty serious bug to me. Actually, if you think about it that means that PS is completely ignoring spaces altogether. I can, of course, switch to space 2 using a shortcut key. When I do this PS is of course not in space 2 anymore because it now seems to be in space 1 sort of. No matter what space I'm in, if I command tab to PS it will pop up in that space instead of moving to space 2 where PS was supposed to be. So, PS is not compatible with spaces on my machine. If it were it would stay in the space I put it in and not appear in any space if I command tab to it. This behaviour is across the whole of CS5 from what I can tell. I very much doubt this is a problem with my machine alone. If it is, please confirm that you have different behaviour from what I have here. Thanx.
     
  19. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    Dec 29, 2008
    #19
    CS5 disappears when you click on the desktop!

    Actually I was going to add that the behaviour I notice with CS5 that seems so odd is that if I have, say, an image open in PS and I click the OS X desktop behind the image PS disappears but the open image doesn't, that is, the toolbars disappear and the image doesn't. Most OS X programs remain visible when you do click on the desktop behind the window. It's almost as if PS's toolbars are behaving separately and inconsistently from the content window. Anyone else see this behaviour or is there something wrong with my install?
     
  20. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    Dec 29, 2008
    #20
    I should make it clear that I'm using the new MBP 15" i7. I'm checking out the Adobe forums and these are apparently known issues with the latest gear and CS5.
     
  21. mlblacy macrumors 6502

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    the REAL Jersey Shore
    #21
    Not sure how much ram you have...but you may simply have insufficient ram. Are you getting beachballs, or any checking your activity monitor for "page-outs"? (which usually is indicative of ram issues). Also, Spaces may be a bug fest, I have no idea, but I don't understand why it is so essential to your workflow (and I work in most of the same programs, and then some). If the MBP is older, maybe you just don't have the hardware chops to run CS5 smoothly.

    I currently run CS4, Aperture2 with a HUGE library, Quark, etc. etc. on a first gen, white 24" imac with only 3gb ram (the max it holds). I routinely work on very large files, produce entire publications, and often have 6-9 apps open... all with little difficulty. I did hold off upgrading to Aperture3 and CS5 until my new 27" i7 iMac comes in, which is any day now. The point is this... you shouldn't be having a problem. Maybe you should just ditch Spaces...

    I hate to say it, but Adobe pretty much sucks these days for Apple support, and this goes back way before the recent Flash war. CS4 had issues with Spaces as well, and it looks like perhaps little has changed. Adobe is not exactly quickly responsive towards those of us in the Mac community (despite the fact their company was built off our backs).

    In looking around the Spaces issue goes back even to CS3. Check this out below, it is an interesting read:

    "CS5 does not work in spaces. Like another user said, Adobe makes no effort to make any cs5 apps behave like a mac app. I activated spaces and assigned FW to space 3 and DW to space 2, and soon as I toggle betweent the two apps, fireworks moves to space two. And that's just one of hundreds of gripes against Adobe software. Half of the scroll windows in their panels don't response to mouse scrolling, preference commands are NEVER correct nor are many other mac system commands. Adobe has become a company I love to hate. They ARE the new Microsoft. I bought CS5 hoping that many of these issue would be fixed from CS3. Pretty much the same BS. If and when an althernative comes along, I'll just ship immediately." (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=936085)

    If you want to jump ship you can, maybe Adobe will serve you better "on the other side". But... I would consider ditching Spaces instead.

    As a long time Photoshop user (professionally since 1.0), I have seen Adobe go from the most loved to among the worst hated. While their have been incremental improvements, very few changes have occurred that have fundamentally altered my workflow, especially considering the onerous weight of its upgrades. Lots to argue about there, but honestly I can list what the changes have been over the years... and CS4 was not radically different than CS2, especially considering the money. I have made major changes to my workflow, and for the better, however. I have switched most of my imaging over to Aperture, and then added in Nikon's NIK suite of plugins for Aperture. I can clean images up a LOT faster (and I am very fast), and I can reclaim images that would be lost to pshop with relative ease. Batch processing is far superior as well, and best of all my images are resolution independent (which is huge). Unless there is layering or type, or I have to convert to CMYK... I don't need it. 95% of my imaging is done without pshop, and life is better.

    If you can't get your job done it doesn't matter which platform you chose, unfortunately I wouldn't hold my breath that Adobe will come to your rescue. Personally for me I would NEVER switch to follow Adobe, but would look for alternatives instead. Apple has been good too me, prices always goes down, power & speed always goes up... and with Adobe you get... exactly what I have seen trending for the last 5 years. Unresponsive support and skyrocketing prices...

    good luck...
    michael
     
  22. philosopherdog thread starter macrumors 6502a

    philosopherdog

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    Dec 29, 2008
    #22
    One thing I just figured out with PS is if you switch the screen mode from standard to full screen with menu bars it seems to behave much more normally with spaces and command tab program switching. If you go into spaces view you can actually see it in its own space. In standard mode you just see the content window without menus or toolbars. I'm not sure if this is by design, but it seems like strange window behaviour to me. Also, from what I'm reading the Windows version of CS5 is even more plagued with bugs and glitches. So switching to Win7 isn't in the cards as a solution.
     
  23. InfoSecmgr Guest

    InfoSecmgr

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    Dec 31, 2009
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    #23
    This cracks me up. This is a Mac forum, yet most of you are Windows fanboys. To each his own I suppose, but maybe you should find another forum.
     
  24. Pentad macrumors 6502a

    Pentad

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    Indiana
    #24
    Not to be harsh, but perhaps you do not know how to use these apps under OS X? I'm going to sound like a fan-boy but I'm just trying to understand your issues.

    You post is incredibly vague so its hard to judge what exactly you are having trouble with. You mention three items: Command/Tab, Spaces, and CS 5. Let's take a look:

    Command/Tab: This seems pretty straight forward so perhaps you could give us more information here. Since I use Spaces all the time, I rarely use Command/Tab.

    Spaces: Frankly, this is the one item that I wish Windows 7 had. I LOVE Spaces. They have done a great job with it since its introduction in Leopard. There were many reported issues with Spaces when it first came out (Microsoft, I'm looking in your direction) but I believe its near perfect now.

    CS5: I teach at a university and we have labs that use CS5 ranging from website programming to image processing on HUGE TIFF files (I mean HUGE!). Honestly, I have not had anybody complain about CS5. I think since it went 64bit, its more stable than CS4.

    Now, I'm trying to remain objective here but the issues you state aren't ones that I have experienced, read about, or encountered from others (read students). I'm not discounting the possibility that they exist, but I'm somewhat skeptical.

    Here are my suggestions:

    You state you are getting into web development. What kind? Are you just doing DW stuff or true web programming (Java, .NET, C#, ASP, Ruby, AJAX, etc)?? If its full programming than Windows might be a better option for you.

    Its been my experience with students that learning a new tool or language WHILE learning a new OS is never a good thing. If you are more comfortable in Windows, I would stick with Windows while you learn.

    Sometimes web programming requires dropping to a Terminal or Command Prompt. If you are new to Terminal, that can be a huge learning curve on top of your course work.

    Good Luck!
     
  25. claus macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    #25
    On the missing toolbars issue:
    If this is what is bugging you - I'm pretty sure its working the way it is intended to. I always though it was a nice thing to have the toolbars hidden whenever I wasn't actually able to use them (when PS is inactive), but your oppinion may differ.

    Have you tried going to the Window menu and enabling "Application Frame" ? - that will make PS look like it did in the old days and ensure that the toolbars will not be hidden, even when looking at it in Spaces.

     

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