Should rockers who can’t sing anymore still be touring?

[Huntn]

I went to a show several years ago and could swear the lead singer was lip syncing too. Sometimes beating the lyric, and sometimes lagging it. It distracted from the whole experience. I get why they would use a song track, but maybe they should be up front with the audience about the use of it. I do remember the fine print on a ticket in Europe saying that the artist may use 'accompaniment technology such as recordings or others off stage playing the instrumentals during the performance'. Not something you see in concert tickets here. Queen had it right when I heard they would play a track of one of their hits because it would be impossible to perform live. Can't remember the track at the moment, but it gave them a break during the concert. (Was it Bohemian Rhapsody?) Rock on!

I go to a performance to see the band perform, not listen to one of their records. Additionally I acknowledge that I expect to hear is what I heard in the recording. Decades ago, I was severely disappointed in a Neil Diamond Live album, because he improvises a lot in his live performances. His studio recordings are pristine, his live performances are altered significantly, and I wanted studio quality!

 

[bradl]

The age of the singer also plays a part. The vocal cords are remarkably good at recovering from abuse and damage at younger ages, but as the voice gets older, this ability to recover is reduced and damage is more likely to become permanent. Rock singers are often very used to tearing up their vocal cords on tour with the expectation that their voice will recover in time for the next tour, but as they age, the voice gradually becomes less and less forgiving.

To a degree. My perfect examples of this are the legendary Floor Jansen, current singer of Nightwish, along with bassist from Nightwish, Marco Hietala.

Notwithstanding Floor being a vocal coach herself, she started in a metal band at age 16, but later on in her career went into the conservatory and learned how to sing properly, as well as different styles. She sings pop, opera, metal, theatre, the entire lot. There isn’t a style she can’t sing, from death or doom metal growls to an operatic E6. She’s in her mid 40s now, and has to learn to properly care for her voice for it to last as long as it is, and she’s looking to go another 40 years.

Marco, on the other hand, was a hard rock and metal guy in his own right, modeling his singing after another rock great, the late Ronnie James Dio. Hietala sounds like Dio, in tone and vibrato. He has an amazing range, but roughly 25-30 years ago suffered from a botched throat surgery attempt to remove a polyp, and lost his entire falsetto range. He had to relearn how to sing and get that range back, all with his head/chest mix, and not total head voice. He can still hit a G4 in his chest voice, but took some hard relearning and retooling of his voice. Rumor had it that he had hired some vocal coach at the time... named Floor Jansen.

Both still have their vocal ranges to this day, but it does take work and time to put into caring for their voices, because like one's health, once it goes, it's gone.

BL.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I go to a performance to see the band perform, not listen to one of their records. Additionally I acknowledge that I expect to hear is what I heard in the recording. Decades ago, I was severely disappointed in a Neil Diamond Live album, because he improvises a lot in his live performances. His studio recordings are pristine, his live performances are altered significantly, and I wanted studio quality!

Counting Crows. Love them. Saw them early on in a bar in Detroit. GREAT SHOW! I could touch the stage, feel the heat of the lamps/stage, and they played everything 'as album'. Great performance. Loved every second of it. Saw them in a larger venue, and they were still good, but not the same. Got their 'Live on a wire' CD set, and had to admit I HATED IT in the beginning! He sang most of it operatic, and one song, my fav, he started to sing 'normal', he restarted and did his best to kill it. (However, I have to say that it has grown on me, and I don't have that feeling at the back of my throat when I hear a track from it on shuffle, but I totally get where you are coming from. I walked out of a concert early on (I was in my teens) that sucked really bad. So off key, and just not even close to phoning it in, they were sleeping through it. I Freudianly have forgotten the group, but remember the venue. Quite a few people had and were leaving at the same time too, sadly. I get you. I want the artists to do their best to give me the album performance, unless they say 'Operatic version of our albums', and then listen to their CDs here and save the money...

 

[DeepIn2U]

A lot of bands use backing tracks. I’d probably hate that as much as crappy live singing. Here’s an example from Def Leppard.

I gotta Def Leppard had a wild go after return of their drummer after his accident.

Honestly I'd LOVE to see a recovery video and video of how Yamaha approached him and trained with him to begin drumming again. I recall back in Gr 9 that so many thought his drumming was like lip-synching with a drummer behind or under the stage (visions of a lil person driving KITT in knight rider; mad magazine).

There are so many drummers that lived in apartments or aspiring drummers that in mid 2000's could afford a decent digital drum kit that might not have never been able to if it wasn't for Def Leppard.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Oh my. I hope David has retired.I won't go to these shows any more. I'd be angry if I spent a lot of money to listen to this. I really wanted to go to the recent Genesis tour since it will likely be Phil's last, but after seeing YouTube videos of the shows, I couldn't bring myself to spend the money.

Sad. He was a legend even on Skyscraper (one of my first CDs) but just those odd tights screams super icky-creapy-granddaddy vibes! That's just before talking in the mike let alone singing.

He's still loopy lol.

 

[DeepIn2U]

In the vein of someone who probably did it right, I will cite Julie London. Not rock and roll, but in her time a popular torch singer who ended up in the 1970s TV show Emergency! as nurse Dixie McCall.

Her last studio album was recorded in 1969 and after that she stopped signing professionally, a result of a loss of vocal control due to years of smoking and drinking. But her professional singing career had spanned the mid 1950s until 1969. Bonus tidbit, her husband was Bobby Troupe, who wrote 'Get your kicks on Route 66'.

She quit acting entirely in 1981 and was notoriously difficult to interview after that time.

Then there is forced retirement. This one is rock and roll. Marie Fredriksson, of Roxette. The band had to stop touring because she developed a brain tumor. She was able to give one last performance before her untimely death in December 2019. But because of all the surgeries she'd undergone her vocal strength was much diminished.

SO that's why they seemed to be a bit better than a 1-hit wonder back then. Sad way to go after making it big.

 

[rhett7660]

I have been to several Iron Maiden concerts over the years, and for how old as they are, they still sound freaking killer. I haven't googled, mainly because I don't want it to be so, if they have backing tracks etc, but they still put on a hell of a show.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Sad. He was a legend even on Skyscraper (one of my first CDs) but just those odd tights screams super icky-creapy-granddaddy vibes! That's just before talking in the mike let alone singing.

He's still loopy lol.

I think no one loves David Lee Roth more than David Lee Roth.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I gotta Def Leppard had a wild go after return of their drummer after his accident.

Honestly I'd LOVE to see a recovery video and video of how Yamaha approached him and trained with him to begin drumming again. I recall back in Gr 9 that so many thought his drumming was like lip-synching with a drummer behind or under the stage (visions of a lil person driving KITT in knight rider; mad magazine).

There are so many drummers that lived in apartments or aspiring drummers that in mid 2000's could afford a decent digital drum kit that might not have never been able to if it wasn't for Def Leppard.

I have seen 'backing' drummers and also backing guitarists at several concerts I've been to . Rolling Stones had 2 people playing guitar behind some of the staging. You *could* see them, if you were off one side or the other of the stage, but at least they didn't hide them.

I'm trying to remember the concert that had a backing drummer too. No guitarist I could see, but some unnamed guy beating the hell out of the drum kit. It made me wonder if the 'real performer' was even playing the drums.

Greenday had both a guitarist and drummer, but the drummer wasn't playing very hard, from what I saw, but the guitarist was ripping it. I think eventually they started giving him credit, and he has played on some of their albums.


What some people don't potentially realize is that on tracks recorded for sale/distribution, a band may have the singer double their singing, singing one track higher and another track lower, and combine them in the mix for pressing. Guitars and even drums are doubled too at times. So seeing a singer at a concert singing might be just to get the same effect. Kurt Cobain was not a fan of it, but did it on some tracks on Nevermind, and did it on other other tracks after that. It really adds a very almost haunting style/quality to some tracks. Using double drums adds more 'punch', and just more noise. People that think music production is easy, and CDs should cost dramatically less have to realize that for some bands, and some songs, a heck of a lot of 'behind the curtains' goes on. But anyway... Rock on!!!

 

[eyoungren]

SO that's why they seemed to be a bit better than a 1-hit wonder back then. Sad way to go after making it big.

Roxette was extremely popular in Scandinavia and Europe well before their one or two album hits in the US. They had to be convinced to release an album for the US market. Marie memorized the English lyrics but didn't understand it until later. As with many bands that seemed to be one-hit wonders here in the US, they simply went back to touring worldwide and remained popular outside the US.

By all accounts Marie was a really nice person.

 

[bradl]

I gotta Def Leppard had a wild go after return of their drummer after his accident.

Honestly I'd LOVE to see a recovery video and video of how Yamaha approached him and trained with him to begin drumming again. I recall back in Gr 9 that so many thought his drumming was like lip-synching with a drummer behind or under the stage (visions of a lil person driving KITT in knight rider; mad magazine).

There are so many drummers that lived in apartments or aspiring drummers that in mid 2000's could afford a decent digital drum kit that might not have never been able to if it wasn't for Def Leppard.

If you watch VH1 Classic Albums: Hysteria, in the bonus footage of that presentation, Rick Allen and Joe Elliot actually go into this. Prior to their Donnington Festival appearance (their first major show since Rick's accident), they actually did a set of 4 or 5 shows in Ireland, where they brought in the drummer from Status Quo to help Rick out, in case he couldn't handle it. The first couple of shows went great, but on the 3rd or 4th show, that drummer couldn't make it to the gig in time, due to weather leaving out of London. Flight was delayed, landed on the east coast of Ireland, and took a taxi all the way to the gig (on the west side of the island), and got to the show an hour and a half late. Rick did all but two songs by himself, and didn't miss a beat, as the Status Quo drummer quietly snuck onto his kit. The crowds didn't notice a difference.

After that show, that drummer thanked the band, wished Rick luck, and went back to playing with Status Quo, because Rick didn't need his help anymore. The next show was Donnington, and the rest was history.

BL.

 

[DeepIn2U]

If you watch VH1 Classic Albums: Hysteria, in the bonus footage of that presentation, Rick Allen and Joe Elliot actually go into this. Prior to their Donnington Festival appearance (their first major show since Rick's accident), they actually did a set of 4 or 5 shows in Ireland, where they brought in the drummer from Status Quo to help Rick out, in case he couldn't handle it. The first couple of shows went great, but on the 3rd or 4th show, that drummer couldn't make it to the gig in time, due to weather leaving out of London. Flight was delayed, landed on the east coast of Ireland, and took a taxi all the way to the gig (on the west side of the island), and got to the show an hour and a half late. Rick did all but two songs by himself, and didn't miss a beat, as the Status Quo drummer quietly snuck onto his kit. The crowds didn't notice a difference.

After that show, that drummer thanked the band, wished Rick luck, and went back to playing with Status Quo, because Rick didn't need his help anymore. The next show was Donnington, and the rest was history.

BL.

AWESOME ... I need to find that video.

Much appreciated!!

After a few short years of Yamaha Air Violen, Digital Drums and a few other digital instruments I think Rick Allen's performances fully ushered in digital instruments are being acceptable for all genre's and musicians, whereas 808's and other drumkits were left to just Hip-Hop music.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I have seen 'backing' drummers and also backing guitarists at several concerts I've been to . Rolling Stones had 2 people playing guitar behind some of the staging. You *could* see them, if you were off one side or the other of the stage, but at least they didn't hide them.

I'm trying to remember the concert that had a backing drummer too. No guitarist I could see, but some unnamed guy beating the hell out of the drum kit. It made me wonder if the 'real performer' was even playing the drums.

Greenday had both a guitarist and drummer, but the drummer wasn't playing very hard, from what I saw, but the guitarist was ripping it. I think eventually they started giving him credit, and he has played on some of their albums.


What some people don't potentially realize is that on tracks recorded for sale/distribution, a band may have the singer double their singing, singing one track higher and another track lower, and combine them in the mix for pressing. Guitars and even drums are doubled too at times. So seeing a singer at a concert singing might be just to get the same effect. Kurt Cobain was not a fan of it, but did it on some tracks on Nevermind, and did it on other other tracks after that. It really adds a very almost haunting style/quality to some tracks. Using double drums adds more 'punch', and just more noise. People that think music production is easy, and CDs should cost dramatically less have to realize that for some bands, and some songs, a heck of a lot of 'behind the curtains' goes on. But anyway... Rock on!!!

Agreed.

I cannot recall but I think Stevie Via was accredited with recordings of a few songs from Whitesnake - Whitesnake album and a few others, including Michael Jackson on one of his later albums. Jackson has always loved the guitar yet never learned to play it. i mean he did grow up in the height of original rock'n'rolls golden era (as a child) amongst other genre influences.

Lenny Kravitz - Are You Going My Way ; also had lead guitarist of Gun's & Roses play a few other tracks as well.

I kind of really mis album sleeves/sleevelets because of this. Now with streaming you get very basic information.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Roxette was extremely popular in Scandinavia and Europe well before their one or two album hits in the US. They had to be convinced to release an album for the US market. Marie memorized the English lyrics but didn't understand it until later. As with many bands that seemed to be one-hit wonders here in the US, they simply went back to touring worldwide and remained popular outside the US.

By all accounts Marie was a really nice person.

She did seem like a nice person with interviews translated, Must've Been love track really killed the charts here. That band seemed like it had legs to keep going, sad about her ending.

really strange how UK actors or others across the globe can pull off a perfect N.American English accents as if spoken all their lives so easily.

 

[sigamy]

Because someone can't do their job like they could when they were 20 they should end it?

Ah, depends on the job but I'd vote yes...especially if the job is in any way physical (manual labor, landscaping, tree cutter, maybe even plumber and mechanic). I'd lump singing/performing in this category.

For me, I don't understand the appeal of going to see these aging acts. I guess many people enjoy it, good for them. I find it sad and ridiculous.

 

[rhett7660]

Oh my. I hope David has retired.I won't go to these shows any more. I'd be angry if I spent a lot of money to listen to this. I really wanted to go to the recent Genesis tour since it will likely be Phil's last, but after seeing YouTube videos of the shows, I couldn't bring myself to spend the money.

Dear god, that is horrible... I tried to find the youtube video of him performing with Van Halen on one of the late shows. It was horrible, but I think this one takes the cake.

 

[polaris20]

Bon Jovi and Motley Crue? Should they ever have been allowed to perform in the first place?

For acts like that, it was always more about the hair than the singing…. They still have their hair…


Then there’s the ones who can put on a killer show to the very end:

I know this is an older post, but thank you for posting that. That performance was extraordinary. And just three short years before she passed.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Oh my. I hope David has retired.I won't go to these shows any more. I'd be angry if I spent a lot of money to listen to this. I really wanted to go to the recent Genesis tour since it will likely be Phil's last, but after seeing YouTube videos of the shows, I couldn't bring myself to spend the money.

I was able to see Genesis about 8 to 10 years ago. Was able to get reserved seats, and loved it. It's sad to see how quickly Phil has declined. He's put out a heck of a lot of great music, and given a lot of people such joy. He will be missed, but I'm glad I *finally* got a chance to see them. They did most of TOTT, and the self titled. Great show.

So many bands I wish I had seen in their time on the stage. Hmm...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Oh my. I hope David has retired.I won't go to these shows any more. I'd be angry if I spent a lot of money to listen to this. I really wanted to go to the recent Genesis tour since it will likely be Phil's last, but after seeing YouTube videos of the shows, I couldn't bring myself to spend the money.

He's holding up the Van Halen reunion/last shows tour. With what came out about the guy emailing Eddie, I wonder if Dave has a chapped ass about it all. They are supposed to have Sammy signed up to tour/perform, and that could be it too. He does seem to be the prima donna drama queen.

 

[JBGoode]

I was able to see Genesis about 8 to 10 years ago. Was able to get reserved seats, and loved it. It's sad to see how quickly Phil has declined. He's put out a heck of a lot of great music, and given a lot of people such joy. He will be missed, but I'm glad I *finally* got a chance to see them. They did most of TOTT, and the self titled. Great show.

So many bands I wish I had seen in their time on the stage. Hmm...

That's awesome - where was that show? TOTT is my favorite Phil album and would have loved to see that live.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

That's awesome - where was that show? TOTT is my favorite Phil album and would have loved to see that live.

It was in 2007. They actually apparently only did one track from TOTT: Los Endos, but it was ruckus when they played it. I loved the Duke tracks, and In the Cage, Home By The Sea, I Know What I Like, Mama, Invisible Touch, but the whole show was great. One I had been hoping to do for YEARS... The wife is the huge TOTT fan and was satiated. They did enough of the best Phil hits which were great, and a huge drum duet.

The set list:



With I Can't Dance, and The Carpet Crawlers as encores.

So hard to believe it was that long ago. Wow... Almost 15 years ago? Seems like it was last week. I heard there was a video made of the shows in the tour. Haven't seen or heard if it was true.

 

[bradl]

It was in 2007. They actually apparently only did one track from TOTT: Los Endos, but it was ruckus when they played it. I loved the Duke tracks, and In the Cage, Home By The Sea, I Know What I Like, Mama, Invisible Touch, but the whole show was great. One I had been hoping to do for YEARS... The wife is the huge TOTT fan and was satiated. They did enough of the best Phil hits which were great, and a huge drum duet.

The set list:

View attachment 2026987

With I Can't Dance, and The Carpet Crawlers as encores.

So hard to believe it was that long ago. Wow... Almost 15 years ago? Seems like it was last week. I heard there was a video made of the shows in the tour. Haven't seen or heard if it was true.

That... is a set list, and a bucket list setlist at that. If they could have snuck in That's All, and Abacab, that would have made a night to remember. But from this list alone, this outlasts a lot of lists from bands over the past 30 years.

BL.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

That... is a set list, and a bucket list setlist at that. If they could have snuck in That's All, and Abacab, that would have made a night to remember. But from this list alone, this outlasts a lot of lists from bands over the past 30 years.

BL.

That's the thing, I could swear that they DID do Abacab. I believe they snuck it in at the encore. I've been to concerts where set lists are sent out by people that claim to have attended the concert, and have been missing a song or two. *shrug* Like weird... They did Illegal Alien too because I remember Mike Rutherford standing in the spotlight with the radio, one I used to own. Or maybe I dreamed it all. I also saw Peter Gabriel and he did some early Genesis songs from when he was still with them too.

Yeah, sometimes a concert is just perfect, hits all the songs. So glad I was able to be there.

 

[Charcoalwerks]

Never really thought ab

I gotta Def Leppard had a wild go after return of their drummer after his accident.

Honestly I'd LOVE to see a recovery video and video of how Yamaha approached him and trained with him to begin drumming again. I recall back in Gr 9 that so many thought his drumming was like lip-synching with a drummer behind or under the stage (visions of a lil person driving KITT in knight rider; mad magazine).

There are so many drummers that lived in apartments or aspiring drummers that in mid 2000's could afford a decent digital drum kit that might not have never been able to if it wasn't for Def Leppard.

I never really thought about that until I watched a YT video where he talked about working with techs to create his foot controls. Yea I would say his accident definitely had an effect on the development of edrums.

 

[bradl]

Never really thought ab

I never really thought about that until I watched a YT video where he talked about working with techs to create his foot controls. Yea I would say his accident definitely had an effect on the development of edrums.

You can actually go back a little bit further on that, and go to a guy named Robb Reiner from the Canadian band Anvil, or "Filthy Animal" Taylor from Motorhead. It is arguable between one of those two as to who was the one to create and/or first use the double kickdrum pedal, which would be used commonly in the double bass/kickdrum sound like you'd hear in songs like One by Metallica, Painkiller by Judas Priest, or <insert any genre of metal band here>. That started around 1981/1982, which kicked off a lot for adding more and more pedals, especially when everyone only just had the pedal for the single kickdrum and the pedal to close the high hat.

BL.