dontpannic
macrumors 6502
Flat doesn't mean boring. Read up on flat design philosophies and maybe you won't sound so unfamiliar with the whole affair.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Should Scott Forstall have stayed at Apple?
- Thread starter gadget123
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Flat doesn't mean boring. Read up on flat design philosophies and maybe you won't sound so unfamiliar with the whole affair.
Some people are so afraid of changes I can't help but wonder if they're as angry over the idea of getting a raise.
"They probably want me to work more, the bastards, because more money can only mean more work. I'm gonna tell them I don't want it!"
"They probably want me to work more, the bastards, because more money can only mean more work. I'm gonna tell them I don't want it!"
SnowLeopard2008
macrumors 604
Any proof of that? He is a bit arrogant. But like Jobs, he's not just blindly arrogant.
pittpanthersfan
macrumors 6502
Yes he should have been fired. This is Tim Cook's Apple not Steve Jobs' Apple. As much as we all wish Steve was still alive...he's not and Scott was getting in the way of what Tim wanted to do. Siri and Maps just made the case easier. Tim is hitching his wagon to the Jony Ive train and it seems clear that Scott and Jony didn't get along.
People would also argue that Forstall was the reason why iOS remained the same since it launched in 2007 and has grown stale. And it seems more people are excited for the change than those that are worried about it.
We have yet to see iOS under Ive's design, and Cue's and Federighi's (don't forget, Ive is just the designer, Cue took over Siri and Maps and Federighi is in charge of iOS and Mac OS X overall now) changes to the overall system. I don't think we can make any judgement until we see and use iOS 7 for ourselves.
And this is exactly why I am so excited about WWDC this year. There is finally a collaborative effort on all levels.
Ive - Design for iOS, OSX, and all apps within each OS
Federighi - Creation of iOS and OSX with Ive's design input
Cue - Responsible for apps and services with Ive's design input and Federighi's integration requirements
Sounds soooo much better!
charlituna
macrumors G3
It's a moot question since Apple isn't the Apple of old.
And Forstall was likely for more than just the maps thing.
What's funny is that while Forestall was at Apple, everyone was talking ad nauseam about how iOS is looking stale.
Yet, now that there's so much buzz about a new iOS, people are already calling it a failure based on some stupid rumors.
Dolorian
macrumors 65816
I won't deny that Forstall did many great things for Apple and iOS in particular but frankly, every time he came on stage you could smell the hubris from a mile away. People like that just don't play well with others and as far as I have read this was the case.
Was it a good move to give him the boot? I guess it was necessary for Apple now and what Cook is trying to do with it. But then again I've heard that Ive without Job's direction has struggled before, so we'll have to wait and see how things turn out.
I for one am really excited for WWDC and looking forward to Ive's take on iOS. I really hope Apple puts out some truly great stuff so that the prophets of doom who are always predicting Apple's imminent demise finally lie down.
Was it a good move to give him the boot? I guess it was necessary for Apple now and what Cook is trying to do with it. But then again I've heard that Ive without Job's direction has struggled before, so we'll have to wait and see how things turn out.
I for one am really excited for WWDC and looking forward to Ive's take on iOS. I really hope Apple puts out some truly great stuff so that the prophets of doom who are always predicting Apple's imminent demise finally lie down.
Ivy is the look and fell guy responsible for the overall image of Apple products.
Federighi is the backend guy responsible for making the software run.
Mansfield is the backend guy responsible for making the hardware run.
Cue is responsible to connecting it all together.
I think many people overlook the importance of Mansfield's return to Apple.
Rogifan
macrumors Penryn
I like how Cook has reorganized things. Things were much more siloed under Steve. Now it really is functionally based and everyone has to work together. Only thing I worry about is if these guys are stretched too thin. They all seem to have a ********* on their plate, even if you exclude any new product categories they might be working on.
Aldaris
macrumors 68000
My thought too.
There has been a lot written about Mr. Forstalls interpersonal skills at Apple.
Many of the higher ups including Sir Jonny Ive wouldn't be alone with him because of his outright arrogance. Tim Cook had the balls to admit iOS Maps wasn't as good as it could have been and Scott refused to ball up too. More than enough reason to send his sorry arrogant piece of work packing.
-Not a team player.
-Not willing to accept accountability.
Sounds like enough for me, and lets be honest this isn't small potatoes, this is being the face of iOS, and thinking he's next in line for CEO, and ripping everyone who crosses him, and refuses to own up to mistakes and shortcomings.
Jonny Ive has been humble and passionate about what he does-and does well, he's been a team player and has an amazing team. Last I heard, there are no individuals that refuse to meet one on one with Sir Ive.
To conclude and give my opinion. No, Scott should not have stayed at Apple, the internal politics would have destroyed the company over time. OS's and devices would drift directions and software would become a mess, being buggy if interchangeable/interoperable at all. The 'magic' of Apple is Apple creates the 'spiritual/mental'(software) and the 'physical'(hardware). Scott would continue to be a selfish vice president, and divert iOS from the rest of Apple.
I would be more worried about "design by committee". Any large project needs a single decision maker with the grand vision. Hope that Cook is that guy even if the guys below him are the "idea' men.
Rogifan
macrumors Penryn
Sorry I don't equate collaboration to "design by committee". Every one of these guys has specific things they're responsible for, things they have the final say on. I don't think a committee signed off on iOS 7 design, Ive did.
charlituna
macrumors G3
Cook is not that guy. He's the CEO. 'That guy' is typically an underling, in this case Sir Jony Ive.
Steve Jobs was a fluke being both CEO and Idea Guy.
I am not talking about idea guys being the decision guys.
Cook is clearly not a design guy.
The question is if he is the decision guy across all of these groups.
All large projects need ONE strong leader.
Look at bridge building. In the BA they are currently building 1/2 of a bridge and it is 3x over budget and 10 years behind schedule when the entire bridge only took 3 years to build in 1936. The difference is when projects were built in 1936 there was "the guy" who brought it all together while delegating. Now you have committees being "the guy" and construction projects take infinitely longer and cost infinitely more money.
Apple's "the guy" was Steve Jobs. It isn't clear which approach Tim Cook has taken as CEO - Yet.
xcodeaddict
macrumors 6502a
You couldn't resist, eh? I'll bet you don't hear those kind of corporate dullwords @ Apple much!
skaertus
macrumors 601
I guess you're right. Apple has been through a lot of changes. In fact, it's Jony Ive's Apple we're talking about now. Tim Cook is not a product's guy, but he takes good care of the supply chain. Jony Ive is the brains behind the awesome designs we see.
AHDuke99
macrumors 68020
I don't see how anything I said is a surprise to anyone. It's no secret Apple has done very little since Jobs died. Little has changed. The corporate culture is a little more laid back, but there hasn't been a big product release or change. The iPhone 5 is the last big thing Apple has released, and I expect it was largely designed while Jobs was still with Apple.
Profit growth is slowing; as is revenue growth. Apple isn't the same company is used to be. Tim Cook dropped Forstall, a Jobs protégé, because of internal conflicts and his unwillingness to change. Jobs never would have let him go. It was Tim's first big move as Apple CEO.
Yes, what is revealed Monday will set the tone for Apple going forward - we will see what Ive is going to do in his new position and get a peek into whether the moves Cook made last year are working as intended. Right now, people are writing Apple off - saying the magic is gone. I am hoping they are wrong.