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If they receive a text message, (or a whatsapp - you would be shocked about the amount of people who understand that its a secure platform and assume that therefore the messages they receive must be genuine) - which claims to be from their bank, asking them to download the new 'secure' banking app; 'Follow these security steps ensure your app is properly installed' - an older person, or non techie person, or even a slightly stupid person - (don't tell me they should 'get educated' - its a phone. It should be as foolproof as possible) - MAY follow these steps and lose their life savings.
The scammers will trick them into doing it on a desktop computer.

If they're doing online banking at all, especially and the older, less tech-savvy people overwhelmingly use desktop computers rather than mobile apps.

I have told countless of such people that using an up-to-date iPhone / iPad would actually be safer to do their banking on. But most were (and many remain) sceptical. It totally contradicts their intuition and idea that a proper big desktop computer with a keyboard and antivirus - that people "do real business on" - must "surely" be better suited for serious financial transactions and online banking.
 
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If they receive a text message, (or a whatsapp - you would be shocked about the amount of people who understand that its a secure platform and assume that therefore the messages they receive must be genuine) - which claims to be from their bank, asking them to download the new 'secure' banking app; 'Follow these security steps ensure your app is properly installed' - an older person, or non techie person, or even a slightly stupid person - (don't tell me they should 'get educated' - its a phone. It should be as foolproof as possible) - MAY follow these steps and lose their life savings.

Phishing is much more likely to get you to click on links that open in Safari.

No App stores or Apple App Review process will ever help curtail that, sorry.

Phishing concerns are a distraction and really a red herring in the context of this debate.
 
Phishing is much more likely to get you to click on links that open in Safari.

No App stores or Apple App Review process will ever help curtail that, sorry.

Phishing concerns are a distraction and really a red herring in the context of this debate.
that doesn’t negate my point
 
The scammers will trick them into doing it on a desktop computer.

If they're doing online banking at all, especially and the older, less tech-savvy people overwhelmingly use desktop computers rather than mobile apps.

I have told countless of such people that using an up-to-date iPhone / iPad would actually be safer to do their banking on. But most were (and many remain) sceptical. It totally contradicts their intuition and idea that a proper big desktop computer with a keyboard and antivirus - that people "do real business on" - must "surely" be better suited for serious financial transactions and online banking.
This also doesn’t negate my point.
 
If this was true we would already see this running rampant on Android which has a far bigger global footprint than iOS.
We aren't.

If you have data that shows otherwise please provide. For now, using email, IM and Messages is easier to accomplish this.
This doesn’t negate my point either.
 
This also doesn’t negate my point.
Going back to your point, your point is largely FUD. I honestly don't mean this disparaging, but it literally is, more politely saying, "appealing to fear".

While yes, it may somewhat reduce the risk of phishing via this particular channel, it also fails to address to root cause of the problem: That (some) people are gullible and naive. As I said, there are much easier ways for people to be phished or scammed for money credentials - namely web banking and browser-accessible sites (and yes, as we've seen, sometimes even apps available on the app store). If anything, the problem needs to be addressed by educating people and training behaviour - not through technical means as you claim.

In the end, life has some risks.

Some people can't fathom how guns are freely available a few aisles down from the cereals at Walmart.
Others find it unthinkable how countries can have stretches of public roads without speed limits.
 
The whole point is that if side loading (or to more accurately describe what I personally would have a problem with, installing from the open internet) can be activated via following some steps, then it becomes trivial to trick gullible, stupid or non tech savvy people into doing something they shouldn't.

As I have several times in this thread, a phone is not a computer for a normal user. They don't consider it like one, and in their eyes there are no dangers attached to it like they might have heard with normal computers.

If they receive a text message, (or a whatsapp - you would be shocked about the amount of people who understand that its a secure platform and assume that therefore the messages they receive must be genuine) - which claims to be from their bank, asking them to download the new 'secure' banking app; 'Follow these security steps ensure your app is properly installed' - an older person, or non techie person, or even a slightly stupid person - (don't tell me they should 'get educated' - its a phone. It should be as foolproof as possible) - MAY follow these steps and lose their life savings.

Phishing exists and is effective enough for people to continue to attempt it. Expose the previous unexposed and highly prized iOS user base to these unsavoury types that do this sort of thing and it WILL open a flood gate to such attempts.

That's a big danger for all users just to please a couple of vocal tech heads who, lets be fair, can get what they want on ANY other platform.
Well I do understand your worries, but the likelihood of scammers making people download a bad app is probably not worth worrying abou, considering the vast amount of scammers use social engineering instead of exploitation of code.

As the example law you gave. Malicious link with fake website to provide your card info, mail, sms, social media etc etc. all these things happen right now and they probably trick a lot of people to “buy” fake apps just to steal their money. I don’t really see how much worse it can get when it comes to scams
Obviously, it's more of a drive to break Apples balls on a governmental level and has sweet FA to do with consumers or anyone else. It's part of the greater drive for easier and increased surveillance, anti encryption and all the rest of it.
Unfortunately it all comes from apples stubbornness to stick to their guns and not compromise or understand regulators fear.

Essentially this childish mentality is burning every bridge.
81187300-DD25-40AF-B801-047A50AA94F7.jpeg
 
But Microsoft won’t let me install 100s of computers with a single Home license per the EULA. So does that mean Microsoft is doing something illegal here?
No, they aren’t doing anything illegal. It’s just them using copyright protection to prevent you from vomiting copyright infringement.

In EU law you can’t copy a thing without copyrights holders consent.
And if you get consent, that’s a license agreement. Not an EULA
 
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New iOS/iPadOS 15.4 beta 2 came out today and it contained a surprise.
Watch this video at time stamp 3:25.
Yes, this is the right thread.
Hmmmmm…….
Very, very fascinating.
It's very reassuring to know that someone, somewhere inside Apple does not have their head in the sand about which way the political winds are blowing and is preparing appropriately.

This corroborates my view that the "red line" for Apple is not sideloading but losing the 30% cut. If third party stores ever take off- whether with Apple's blessing or by government diktat- expect Apple to demand a cut.
 
Very, very fascinating.
It's very reassuring to know that someone, somewhere inside Apple does not have their head in the sand about which way the political winds are blowing and is preparing appropriately.

This corroborates my view that the "red line" for Apple is not sideloading but losing the 30% cut. If third party stores ever take off- whether with Apple's blessing or by government diktat- expect Apple to demand a cut.
Well well well it’s something I wouldn’t expect apple to ever implement. I almost expected apple to sacrifice their commission way before ever losing control over the walled garden.

But then again the DMA would force it if used on apple as an instakill on the walled garden.
 
Well well well it’s something I wouldn’t expect apple to ever implement. I almost expected apple to sacrifice their commission way before ever losing control over the walled garden.

But then again the DMA would force it if used on apple as an instakill on the walled garden.

Hearing that Apple was to this point in development in that cast was a surprise.
 
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Some perspective on side loading
A really great article that is worth combing through..



“I always believed Apple would draw a line at outright lying — but they continue to lie about what selling software was like before the App Store. They lie about what the review process does and about how developers are treated equally. As a developer, I find this profoundly disillusioning.” — Brent Simmons said in Apple in 2021 report cards from SixColors.

"With the gigantic size of the iPhone market, it certainly makes it a prime target for all bad actors in the world. Thanks to all the security measures and security foundations of the iPhone, and some common sense from the users, we should be good to go with sideloading of apps."
 
Some perspective on side loading
A really great article that is worth combing through..



“I always believed Apple would draw a line at outright lying — but they continue to lie about what selling software was like before the App Store. They lie about what the review process does and about how developers are treated equally. As a developer, I find this profoundly disillusioning.” — Brent Simmons said in Apple in 2021 report cards from SixColors.

"With the gigantic size of the iPhone market, it certainly makes it a prime target for all bad actors in the world. Thanks to all the security measures and security foundations of the iPhone, and some common sense from the users, we should be good to go with sideloading of apps."
The most fascinating is listening to Steve Jobs on why apple failed, and it's a scary thing
 
EFF is in the fight now for consumers.

EFF to Appeals: Apple’s Monopoly Doesn’t Make Users Safer
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/02/eff-appeals-apples-monopoly-doesnt-make-users-safer
That’s good someone’s doing the good fight

And apple even approve of alternative AppStore is special circumstances. So all the work is already done
 
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