iPod Silly feature of the iPOD Shuffle

[Chundles]

As Chundle said, the default setting is for iTunes to update the Shuffle as soon as it is plugged in - even if it isn't replacing songs, it is updating the playlist or whatever.

The only way to stop this is to stop the helper, which is as intrusive as the Quicktime updater used to be - it keeps coming back regardless.

My question is, why can't this setting be changed in iTunes especially when the USB will be used for charging alone on many occasions? Why can't iTunes give me control over such basic things like whether it should update or not, and point me to another path to save the library file if one folder is full by any chance??

In any case my iPod rocks with the Winamp Plugin and my current set of songs which include fine artists like Iron & Wine, JJ Cale and Jack Johnson - as long as I don't use iTunes I am fine...

I was just hoping for one objective word from a Mac forum, instead of blind faith kind of replies about my 'moaning'.

DO YOU NOT READ?!?!

I said all it was doing is checking to see if YOU had changed anything. It takes 5 seconds to look at the iPod in the source list, compare it to the one you have plugged in and see what needs to be changed. It only updates if you have added songs to the source list. It's not doing anything out of the ordinary. If you haven't changed anything then it doesn't do anything.

I keep saying there is something wrong with your shuffle or you have inadvertently changed some setting or some file has been corrupted in Windows and to ring Apple but instead you seem to think that you can come onto a forum where people are offering their assistance free of charge and with good intention and get the same sort of help that the people who actually MADE the product can provide.

I find it extremely arrogant of you to come on here, ask a question of people who are just trying to help you enjoy your product and then whine because the help that these people provided free of charge was not good enough.

Go away and call Apple. We obviously can't satisfy you and I don't feel like helping you anymore anyway.

 

[vinieux]

Point taken, Nomad. However, it doesn't change my opinion that iTunes has a fair distance to go.

I have over 50GB of music, and have been trying all sorts of media players since 1997 - But for the fact that iTunes has a store attached and makes buying online easy, it simply doesn't cut ice with me either as a player/library or as my iPod updating facility.

 

[vinieux]

Chundle, if your iPod is full, then even if it is not replacing songs, iTunes does not take just 5 secs. Maybe that's a Windows problem again. But that is not the point either. If the USB port is ALSO used to charge the iPod, then why is the default setting "Update without asking until complicated changes are made in settings"?? Surely it should be intelligent enough to ask why you are plugging it in.

Anyways, why on earth should it update my playlist without asking me if I am simply recharging it and don't want it to touch my music? It's not as if the iPod won't play without crosschecking/updating the playlist. Besides, when it gives me the Update message i do not know whether it is simply refreshing the list or replacing songs, so I always lived in mortal fear of losing my iPod playlist every time I tried charging it. All it has to do is give ME the option to decide what i want to do, which iTunes doesn't.

Same with the library saving dialog. Why is that not in my control, such that it is going back to some default full disk regardless of my changing it manually under iTunes settings? And even if it must do that, when the alert message comes, why doesn't it let me point to an empty folder or disk? Surely I know my drives better than iTunes does!

The reason I started this thread sounding like a rant was because:

1) The only answers i got from people I spoke to were that i don't know how to use Apple software or that I am doing something wrong. This is the first place thankfully where someone told me there could be something wrong with the Shuffle itself. Although i am fairly sure there isn't. I use it just fine now with NO problems. "iTunes rocks. You are a poor Windows user!" was the normal refrain i heard, even from people who came home and saw it firsthand but could do nothing to solve the problem.

2) The problems I have outlined are not anything that needs an Apple tech team to sort out, or even unnecessary uninstalling, cleaningout the registry and reinstalling. All it needs are some under the hood options that leave some decisions to the user, while retaining the rest of its simplicity and what have you. One simple option to choose my library directory (which iTunes understands instead of ignores) and one even simpler option asking me whether I'm plugging in the Shuffle to charge or to update is all it takes. And yet no one can help me because these simple options do not exist under the hood or anywhere else...

I use lots of software from many sources, some Windows, many third party, many open source and some even Apple. My criterion is not the company from which it comes, but does it fulfil my requirements. And iTunes does not.

I'm all for simplicity and the Apple way, but NOT if it means wresting control from ME the user

 

[Chundles]

The shuffle does not update unless you have changed something. I have my shuffle in the source list, if I add a song to that when it is not plugged in then when I do plug it in I expect that change to be carried over to the shuffle.

If I have not made any changes then no changes are made on the shuffle.

The reason yours is doing this is because there is something wrong with it.

And it does take about 5 seconds. I plug it in, it looks at the source list to see if I have chosen to add any songs to the shuffle, checks the playcounts of the songs I have loaded on the shuffle and carries these over to the songs in my computer library. If I have made any changes it updates ONLY the songs I have added, it leaves the ones already on there alone - updating songs takes a little while but only if I have selected to do so.

In summary, the shuffle only updates if I want it to. Yours updates even if you don't tell it to. This means there is something wrong and you should call Apple. Your iTunes problems we cannot help you with so you should call Apple.

I have used iTunes on both PC and Mac and have never found any problems with it. Something has gone wrong on YOUR machine, it is not an intrinsic function of the software, just one of those things that happen and it is the reason Apple support exists.

That's it from me.

 

[nomad01]

"iTunes rocks. You are a poor Windows user!"

Nobody on here has told you that though so why kick off?

My iTunes library is on my new Dell PC. Before that, it was on my old Dell PC. My windows PC mainly only exists as a file/music server. I've had to sync a 2nd gen, 3rd gen, 4th gen, iPod photo, nano, shuffle and now a iPod with video with two different XP machines. The only problems I've had were:

1) the nano wasn't recognised by my PC and that was an issue with the nano, not iTunes and
2) When I had my first iPod, iTunes for PCs wasn't available. I had to slum it with X-Play and winMX.

iTunes was made for iPods and for me, it's a blessing. Not perfect, but pretty damn good.

Whatever problems you're having aren't typical otherwise you'd find other people on here with the same problems

As for the magical options you're requesting, the whole point is that if things were working properly, you WOULDN'T need this extra option. I'm guessing that's why the option isn't included.

My criterion is not the company from which it comes, but does it fulfil my requirements. And iTunes does not.

Like I said above, I had an iPod before iTunes was available on windows and I hated using WinMX and X-Play. iTunes really was a godsend. If my Apple experience hadn't been so good I wouldn't have gone back to using Apple computers.

I didn't just download iTunes because it had an Apple logo on it and you have no reason to assume that I did. I downloaded it because it did what I wanted it to do.

I'm sorry that iTunes isn't working exactly how you want it to work but I'm happy you've identified a product that is and wish you the best of luck using it.

 

[vinieux]

I am not talking about updating my iPod by replacing my songs. If my iTunes is on and i'm listening to radio for example, then if I plug in my iPod the first thing it does is the update dialog - it may be just refreshing the list and NOT replacing my songs, but the default setting is to update/refresh. Why should this be if my purpose in pluggingin is to ONLY charge it. Even if that is the way it was done, why can't i change it under settings??

However, to say that a library saving dialog is a problem only on my machine is wrong. You haven't faced the problem so you have no idea how annoying it is. Try filling up the drive on which your library is stored and see if you have an easy way out in the settings. The ONLY way to solve it is to uninstall, clean out the registry and reinstall iTunes from scratch, so that it doesn't have any drive, full or otherwise, to go to until I define it during installation. But I am not going to do it until the next update, and hopefully they will sort it out.

Just because thousands of users don't face a particular problem does not mean that the problem doesn't exist, or that its any less real. Nor does it mean that the user is always at fault just because the software came from Apple.

 

[vinieux]

Let me put it another way because i really want to understand this. Suppose you were a product developer and you developed product X. Let's forget names and companies altogether.

Now Product X does 2 things when plugged into a USB port

1) It recharges the unit
2) It refreshes/replaces a playlist

What would your default setting be when you plug product X into a USB hub? And would you give the user an option up front?

 

[Chundles]

I am not talking about updating my iPod by replacing my songs. If my iTunes is on and i'm listening to radio for example, then if I plug in my iPod the first thing it does is the update dialog - it may be just refreshing the list and NOT replacing my songs, but the default setting is to update/refresh. Why should this be if my purpose in pluggingin is to ONLY charge it. Even if that is the way it was done, why can't i change it under settings??

However, to say that a library saving dialog is a problem only on my machine is wrong. You haven't faced the problem so you have no idea how annoying it is. Try filling up the drive on which your library is stored and see if you have an easy way out in the settings. The ONLY way to solve it is to uninstall, clean out the registry and reinstall iTunes from scratch, so that it doesn't have any drive, full or otherwise, to go to until I define it during installation. But I am not going to do it until the next update, and hopefully they will sort it out.

Just because thousands of users don't face a particular problem does not mean that the problem doesn't exist, or that its any less real. Nor does it mean that the user is always at fault just because the software came from Apple.

Here's the process:

1. I have selected "Keep this iPod in the source list."
2. My shuffle is over on the couch, it is not plugged in but a representation of the shuffle is in the source list.
3. I purchase some songs on the iTMS and decide that I would like to load them onto the shuffle.
4. I drag these songs onto the shuffle icon in the source list.
5. I go over to the couch and get my shuffle and plug it in.
6. iTunes looks at the source list, looks at the songs on my shuffle and says "OK, so Chundles wants these three new songs to be added to his songs already on the shuffle" and goes about transferring over those songs.
7. It finishes loading those songs and leaves the shuffle to charge.

This is what happens if I don't make any changes:
1. I don't add any songs to the source list.
2. I plug in the iPod.
3. iTunes compares the source list and the songs on the iPod and says "OK, Chundles doesn't want to change anything there, I'll leave it alone, let me just check how many times he has played each song" so it updates playcounts and leaves it to charge.

I don't see what your problem is, if you choose not to change the songs then iTunes doesn't change the songs. It will always however check the playcount of the songs on your shuffle to ensure that they are represented accurately in your music library.

It's not removing any control, you control if it adds songs or not by adding the songs. The "updating" dialogue is just telling you it is checking to see if you do want to update. It doesn't copy songs over everytime if you have not chosen to copy any songs over. Why would you not want to apply any changes if you have made them? That's like saying "yeah I want to eat this sandwich but I don't want it to move down into my stomach until I tell it to."

 

[Chundles]

Let me put it another way because i really want to understand this. Suppose you were a product developer and you developed product X. Let's forget names and companies altogether.

Now Product X does 2 things when plugged into a USB port

1) It recharges the unit
2) It refreshes/replaces a playlist

What would your default setting be when you plug product X into a USB hub?

I would want it to charge AND reflect any changes that I have decided to make. Surprisingly, that's what the shuffle does.

As I have said, when you plug it in it is only checking to see if you have made any changes, that's what the "updating" dialogue means, if you have not changed anything, it won't change anything.

 

[vinieux]

I would certainly want it to update stuff if I HAVE made changes. If I haven't, why can't I have just a Plug'n'Charge option - even if it isn't the default option why can't i choose such an option - More so because plugging it into someone elses machine results in chaos and me losing songs with the default option because it PRESUMES I have made changes!!!?

 

[Chundles]

I would certainly want it to update stuff if I HAVE made changes. If I haven't, why can't I have just a Plug'n'Charge option - even if it isn't the default option why can't i choose such an option - More so because plugging it into someone elses machine results in chaos and me losing songs with the default option because it PRESUMES I have made changes!!!?

But if you haven't made changes then it does just plug and charge, when you don't make changes it updates your library's play count and that's it.

When I plug it into another machine it gives me the option to associate the iPod with the library on that machine, if I select "No" then it just charges. It won't let you move any songs to it with iTunes on that machine but it won't wipe the music that's already there.

 

[vinieux]

The answer I got to this from a friend was that this prevents piracy, so you can't transfer your songs from your iPod into someone elses machine.

BUT, it just replaced all my songs with pirated copies of someone elses music didn't it??

 

[vinieux]

And no, i plugged it into my friend's machine with his iTunes not even being the default media player. We were doing some work, so we were not even PLANNING to open iTunes for anything. However, I did plug in my iPod to charge it in his USB port. And by the time we finished our work and I unplugged my iPod, I had lost all my music and got a whole lot of Bon Jovi in return...no dialogs, no warnings, NOTHING. Just the fact that the iTunes Helper module was lurking in the background. Finally when I opened iTunes in disgust to see what the settings were, my iPod even showed up in his iTunes with a new name - Praveen Bhat's iPod - that's my friends name. And his settings were all bang on. Do NOT start iTunes when iPod is plugged in and all the rest of it...

 

[Chundles]

And no, i plugged it into my friend's machine with his iTunes not even being the default media player. We were doing some work, so we were not even PLANNING to open iTunes for anything. However, I did plug in my iPod to charge it in his USB port. And by the time we finished our work and I unplugged my iPod, I had lost all my music and got a whole lot of Bon Jovi in return...no dialogs, no warnings, NOTHING. Just the fact that the iTunes Helper module was lurking in the background. Finally when I opened iTunes in disgust to see what the settings were, my iPod even showed up in his iTunes with a new name - Praveen Bhat's iPod - that's my friends name. And his settings were all bang on. Do NOT start iTunes when iPOD is plugged in and all the rest of it...

iTunes may not be the default media player but if you have it selected to open when the shuffle is plugged in it will open. The fact that it associated the shuffle automatically without giving you any options (I ALWAYS get the "do you want to associate this iPod with xxx's library" whenever I plug my shuffle into someone else's machine) suggests that there is something wrong with your shuffle and you need to call Apple.

Just so you can check this, my settings are:

Open iTunes when this iPod is attached: YES
Keep this iPod in the source list: YES
Only update checked songs: NO
Convert to 128kbps: NO
Sound Check: NO
Disk Mode: YES

My Autofill settings are:

All boxes unchecked.

Reflect these settings then try plugging into another machine, if you still don't get the "Do you want to associate this iPod with xxx's library?" then that means something is wrong and you should call Apple.

 

[lucas]

best troll ever... i cant believe he has so many of you in such a state

 

[vinieux]

I don't know about the Source list part of it, but his setting was definitely NOT to start iTunes when the iPOD is plugged in.The pointis a Plug n charge option would effectively prevent all this, especially if the plug n charge setting is saved in the iPOD itself and leaves iTunes outof the picture

 

[Chundles]

I don't know about the Source list part of it, but his setting was definitely NOT to start iTunes when the iPOD is plugged in.The pointis a Plug n charge option would effectively prevent all this, especially if the plug n charge setting is saved in the iPOD itself and leaves iTunes outof the picture

HIS setting on HIS iPod?

What about YOUR setting on YOUR iPod. This is carried in the individual iPod, not the iTunes software.

 

[vinieux]

My setting on my iPOD was to leave iTunes out of the picture COMPLETELY because of the library save problem which was forcing iTunes to mindlessly replace all my iPod songs whenever i plugged it in to MY machine.

The point is, one simple option can prevent all of this. And one more simple option for allowing me to point to a free folder intead of asking whether I want to see this message again or not, when I try to save my library - can completely prevent the other problem from ever occurring even if no one wants a simple plug n charge option, except ole lunatic Me!

 

[Chundles]

My setting on my iPOD was to leave iTunes out of the picture COMPLETELY because of the library save problem which was forcing iTunes to mindlessly replace all my iPod songs whenever i plugged it in to MY machine.

Which is a problem inherent in YOUR machine and as such is well beyond a "simple option" iTunes has had something corrupted on your machine and to sort it out you need to call Apple support.

I am not denying that this problem exists as you obviously have it, I am saying that it is a function of your machine because it is only affecting you. Apple software, as with any software, suffers from bugs every now and then, I am not saying that Apple is perfect, I am saying that your machine is most likely at fault, whether you have done something or not there is probably some setting deep within iTunes or even the *shudder* registry that has changed and you will need to reapply some things. Apple can help you with this, so call them.

 

[Chundles]

My setting on my iPOD was to leave iTunes out of the picture COMPLETELY because of the library save problem which was forcing iTunes to mindlessly replace all my iPod songs whenever i plugged it in to MY machine.

The point is, one simple option can prevent all of this. And one more simple option for allowing me to point to a free folder intead of asking whether I want to see this message again or not, when I try to save my library - can completely prevent the other problem from ever occurring even if no one wants a simple plug n charge option, except ole lunatic Me!

What do you mean when you say "save your library?" I have never seen this option. I keep all my music on the one HDD and let iTunes organise it, I haven't touched the file system in nearly a year because I haven't needed to.

If you are talking about using multiple libraries then the option is there to point iTunes to another one by selecting it in the Advanced preference pane.

If you are using multiple libraries in this way then iTunes looks at the shuffle and sees that the songs on there are no longer in your library (if you have switched between syncing) and says that you don't want them on your iPod either, it won't add any songs though.

 

[vinieux]

1) Apple support is notoriously poor here in India especially if the product is not the usual Apple Mac computer. The official Apple showroom in Bangalore the so called IT capital of India didn't even have an iPod headphone in stock when i lost mine and wanted to buy another - this despite the fact that the iPOD is selling like hot cakes all over.

2) I uninstalled 5 and reinstalled 6 and the problems persisted,when they should have gone - the uninstall is NOT clean.

3) Simple options that give me some control can prevent such drastic outcomes even if my iTunes gets corrupt or whatever.

4) I will reinstall iTunes with their next release after cleaning out my registry once more just to make sure... right now I am blissfully happy with the Winamp plug in, it even updates the songs into the iPOD much faster when I choose to replace songs.

5) I will try and replicate this whole process the next time, after I get a clean install - and see what happens - I will perform a full and valid test.

6) i still think JUST a plug n charge option without any refreshing or checking is worth it for power users.

7) Many thanks to all of you for your help and suggestions

Ciao

 

[gekko513]

My question is, why can't this setting be changed in iTunes especially when the USB will be used for charging alone on many occasions?

That setting can be changed in iTunes. The other posters have tried to tell you that. However, it doesn't seem to work on your iTunes install.

You say you get an error message when you install iTunes. I would suggest that you concentrate on finding a solution to fix that first. If you're able to fix it all the other problems may go away with it.

 

[vinieux]

I DO not and DID not get any error messages while installing iTunes. And just to explain, You do not HAVE to let iTunes decide how you store your music. You can have a collection that is years old in many familiar directories, and make iTunes ONLY act as library without reordering or reshuffling your music drives. In this case, it saves the library file that it creates (called library.xml or some such in Windows) somewhere and shows you all your music as one seamless library even though your storage may be in multiple drives all over yr system.

In essence, I DID NOT move all my music into the iTUNES folder and rearrange all my familiar paths to my music. When you have 50 GB of music collected over 10 years you will realise it is not the best thing to do.

One fine day, the secret drive where it stored this file got full (I presume) because it started showing me this message every 10 seconds.

"The iTunes Music Library File cannot be saved. The disk you are attempting to use is full." And then very stupidly it continues "Removing files and emptying the recycle bin will free up additional space." And then a check box saying "Don't warn me again."

I am telling you the exact phrasing, word for word in the dialog I got.

Firstly, when it is as critical as saving the library file, it should give me an option to point to another drive with free space immediately. It simply does not. And there are no options in settings to change this manually either. I tried changing it to the empty iTunes folder that it creates by default, presuming you would want it to resort and rearrange your music - this is possible in Settings, under Advanced - Itunes Music Folder location. No such luck. Every time I put on my iTunes, this message would pop every 10 seconds or so. i uninstalled and resinstalled iTunes, and NO change.

Assuming such a problem is possible, and the solution not built into the settings, a simple plug n charge option would have saved me no end of heartache...

 

[rjphoto]

Why is no one talking about providing a single click option to disable auto-update or synching? Why should I indulge in workarounds to do something which is my prerogative in the first place - ie deciding what i should listen to, for how long and when...??

Amazing how even a blatantly silly feature is treated as gospel by Apple zealots!

And no, iTUNES on my friend's machine did not open any dialog box. And even on my machine, if i as much as slip it into the USB port for charging, it starts the iPOD update process immediately, REGARDLESS of the fact that I want to CHARGE my Shuffle, NOT REPLACE my music.

I haven't used the Shuffle on a Windows machine, so help me out with some info.

First, what version of Windows and iTunes are you using.

When you disconnect the Shuffle does it stay in the Source list? If not this should be able to be set in the Prefs.

In the Win. iTunes (while connected or left in the Source list) can you choose which Playlist to Autofill from? If so, make a playlist that you want loaded and choose "Autofill From".

However, your main problem should (as you say) be a simple fix in the Prefs. Us ZEALOTS are trying to help, but since most of use only Apple computers we don't have anything to compare too. (Any of you Win guys want to step in and help?)

Personally, I do exactly what you are wanting to do between an OLD G4 TiBook and an eMac. The TiBook loads the songs, but since it is USB1 I use the eMac to charge on USB2 with no reloading required. When I connect to the eMac it ALWAYS ask if I want to associate the Shuffle with the eMac's iTunes. I just click "No" and it starts charging.

Give me a day or 2 to "borrow" my son's shuffle and I'll see if I can recreate your problem at work.

 

[vinieux]

AND, you can change the setting and tell iTunes not to update the iPOD. But even if you have made no changes at all, it first DOES do the playlist check or refresh or what you called checking the playcount or whatever, BEFORE it starts charging

All I am saying is give me the option to decide whether it should start doing anything at all when i plug my iPOD in. thats what I like about the Winamp plug in. It presumes I am intelligent enough to decide what I should do with my music and simply opens up the iPOD and shows me the songs in it currently. Any updating or ANYTHING else I want to do, is only when I decide to tell it to do so.

Sure, make it a default option to autoupdate or refresh playcounts if you want, but also give me the option to disable it if I choose, because more often than not I will be simply charging the iPOD, not updatingit and refreshing the playcount just then is of no consequence to me.