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Sounds promising and exciting for the next version of Apple TV but could someone please explain to me why Apple couldn't just use any of the Airport products to act as the hub for HomeKit?

Bingo... I've said over two years "a new connected device" is coming for the home from Apple... No TV as such. And yea a bet could be that this device combines AirPort Extreme with all the other stuff covered by other posters. Betting it's the new Thunderbolt Display that will have the TV capabilities.

It's looking more revolutionary that evolutionary. It must be designed to replace and not add to the ecosystem.

Makes no sense otherwise.
 
It adds an extra $100 to Apple's bottom line from anyone wanting to set up and use HomeKit.

On the flip side, Samsung's big announcement at CES was that they were making 90% of their products internet enabled by 2017 and 100% by 2020.

And it will be completely open - no walled garden like Apple is building.


http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2015-01-06/samsungs-smart-home-master-plan-leave-the-door-open-for-others

You are misunderstanding, what they mean by open.

No matter what system you buy! You will HAVE to have some sort of main hub. What Samsun is saying is that they are not gonna restrict what developers do with the connectivity part of their devices.

So they will add wifi to that washer dryer you want, and allow any developer including Apple to tie it into their system.
 
Also home kit devices connect to the Internet (and yes, sometimes via their own hubs like with hue, which is a different matter - hue bulbs talk over zigbee not wifi so a zigbee hub is required and the Apple TV cannot be used instead) to talk to your iOS devices, so why should a "home kit hub" be required in the middle? What does it add?

$10 to the stock price? :D

But seriously, my guess is that the devices use Apple TV so that they don't have to be individually configured. If you set up a smart device to connect to the Internet, you have to be able to program each device with your iCloud credentials so that you can talk to it from outside your home network (because they're not likely to tie this to "Back to My Mac" and wide area Bonjour).

To do that, in turn, would require more software on your computer (translated "yet another pane in iTunes") to be able to teach that device how to connect to your Wi-Fi network, perform manual network configuration if your network requires that, update its software every time Apple decides to change its server configuration or update the protocol specs, etc. That would be an absolute pain in the you-know-what.

By contrast, if you do all the hard stuff (global networking) with an Apple TV, the other devices can be dumb as a brick networking-wise, and they'll still "just work", because they can use peer-to-peer Wi-Fi to talk to the Apple TV, thus avoiding the need to use your infrastructure Wi-Fi network at all.

And the Apple TV, unlike all those screenless devices, has an actual built-in user interface for configuring its network connection, can update its own software whenever Apple changes the server configuration or updates the protocol specs, etc. More importantly, you only have to set up all that stuff once on one device, rather than individually configuring every device.

So this rumor makes a lot of sense. With that said, it would be better if other devices, including Macs and ABSes could serve the purpose, and it would be best if it worked more like Bonjour Sleep Proxy, where the lowest-power device on the network serves as the actual proxy (and where any device that can't be turned off or put to sleep counts as taking zero power).


Source?

What did you expect? The need of a MacPro? Something has to be Internet connected and allways on... ATV is the cheapest and least power consuming device Apple has.

No, it isn't. If you have an Airport Base Station, *that* consumes less power. Well, technically, it consumes a lot more power, but it also can't be shut down, which means it is going to consume much of that power whether it is doing work or not. That usually means that throwing work at it is likely to cause the lowest power delta.

So on a network with an Apple ABS, the lowest power configuration would almost certainly involve using the ABS as the proxy (assuming it is connected by Ethernet to the outside world), because that saves you from most of the Wi-Fi power consumption on the ABS itself (idle Wi-Fi takes less power than active Wi-Fi), and it saves you from having the Apple TV powered up. Even if the ABS CPU is dramatically less efficient than the one in the Apple TV, it would be hard to imagine it drawing more power than powering up all that extra hardware would.

If the ABS is connected to the Internet via Wi-Fi, the Apple TV *might* draw less power, assuming it isn't connected through the ABS.

This, of course, all assumes that the Airport Base Station hardware is even capable of doing peer-to-peer Wi-Fi on its own. If not, then I suppose the entire discussion is moot, and the Apple TV will always be the lowest-power device unless you happen to have a Mac that is configured to never sleep.
 
Ha. I've never hooked my Apple TV up to ethernet. WiFi is so freaking fast now, why would you need anything else for streaming video though? Maybe if you view Apple TV as a gaming console then you want the ethernet for latency reasons. But if your home wifi router is the latest generation it should talk really fast with an Apple TV 4.

You might have a point , due to the lack of updates, ATV is one device that has solid wifi.
 
This makes sense

Then again, HomeKit is supposed to support bluetooth as well as WiFi. So some devices would potentially need a bluetooth capable device (such as the AppleTV) to connect to.

Maybe it's for devices that use Bluetooth LE

Bingo, this is the reason. At WWDC it was stated that Homekit accessories can support IP or Bluetooth LE for networking.

When you're at home, within Bluetooth LE range you'll be able to control Bluetooth LE homekit accessories direct from your iPhone/iPad. (You won't even need a wifi network!) When you're further away a Bluetooth LE bridge/hub is required (+ wifi, + Internet) to remotely control them

The rumor is confusing because it calls out Siri as the functionality that will be missing when you're away from home; actually with Bluetooth LE homekit devices you won't be able to control them remotely at all, even from the app, without a bridge/hub device - how could you?

With IP controlled homekit accessories however I still see no reason for a hub and predict that it will be possible to control these while away from home without an Apple TV.

It'll be interesting to see how Apple makes this difference clear to people purchasing homekit accessories, if they even do...
 
how are you going to sign a light socket into your iCloud account?

At WWDC there was a talk for designing homekit accessories. It was stated that all accessories must be registered in homekit by the user. For devices like lightbulbs a 4 digit pin printed on the side of the box would be used.
 
Well I've just flipped though the WWDC - Intro to home kit and he says

Remote access
Enables though iOS device connectivity - and no requirement for your apps to use this feature.

How would you suggest that devices at home connect to the iOS with specific tunnelling for each device? I suspect without it you would have a lot of Firewall issues?

He said there were no "special" requirements to use this feature, i.e. you don't need to add any extra code to your app, you get this functionality "for free".

I agree though, I went back and watched it again and it's not quite as explicit as I remembered. If you watch the talk for Designing Accessories for iOS and OS X around slide 88 this is made much clearer.

Regarding connectivity, I've not seen it explicitly stated anywhere, but I'd suggest that iCloud enables the remote connectivity between iOS devices and homekit accessories. (And again I agree, a direct connection between your remote ios devices and home network would be subject to various network problems, firewall, nat, device discovery, etc and of course for Bluetooth LE homekit accessories not even possible without a wifi hub/bridge)
 
Apple need to sort out the interface on the Apple TV, its horrible to use if you have a large TV or Movie library, i dread to think how bad its going to be for home automation.
 
If this means ATV gets some loving and results in a better product for Mac users, thumbs up.

Whatever did happen with Apple cracking the TV mess that is? Seems to have just gone away.
 
Most home control devices are a two part system. One is a controller base, sometimes called a hub, and the others device controls. Hue, X10, Smarthome are examples (there are many) today. The consumer interacts directly with the controller and it issues “commands” to the devices for action. The communication style between controller and device controls varies by brand and includes such areas as Bluetooth, Wifi, RF, powerline, and IR to name a few. Many controllers have recently been updated to be Wifi/Cloud based allowing access via any IP device, both locally and remotely.

Consumer interaction varies from pressing a button on a dedicated controller to using a PC screen to interface with a connected controller. X10 and SmartHome are good examples of this approach and X10 goes back to the 70s timeframe. On the PC approach, software can automate some of this based on a schedule. Today many vendors offer Smartphone apps that interact and offer varied manual and automatic control options.

Today each vendor is different and each speaks their own language for controller interaction. HomeKit intends to change this by providing a common interface to app developers, which bridges the communication between the IOS device and the corresponding controller, which adapts an Apple specified protocol.

You tell Siri “turn on light” and Siri interacts with the controller via Homekit protocol, which in turn interacts with the actual device control to turn the light on. Basically your IOS device is a bridge between Siri and the actual controller that affects the device.

It seems that the Apple TV part is just one more bridge to handle Siri commands at remote locations away from your home network for those devices that do not already support cloud based control. The Homekit details of this area are probably a bit fuzzy currently.

None of this is really new at all, just headed towards a common interface via Homekit. I have an app on my iPhone now that can interact via Siri and turn lights on/off both locally and remotely. It uses standard components that have been sold for years. That same interface also handles heat controls and locks.
 
uh lock in Apple TV ...



But, what if you don't have an Apple TV ?

You go buy one?

I mean, this is an expense to be able to control your lights/sprinklers/whatever from outside your house, and all of the other home automation technologies have a master controller for them. Heck $100 is a premium (others are around $20-$80) for the controller, and the software to control them needs a computer to run them, so $100 isn't looking too bad.

As for "one more cost to your home automation setup," the switches are usually around $25-$80, so this isn't a cheap project either.
 
If you're excited by this news, you must be a huge Apple fan. Instead of launching a cool new device, they hide it away in a 3 year old device that still doesn't function properly.

We hate to use our Apple TV because 9 times out of 10, we have to get of the couch and go to the Mac to restart iTunes to access the video collection. "An unknown error occurred. Please try again later." Don't know why they cannot make it more reliable after all these years.

I would prefer they built HomeKit into Airport. Makes more sense.
 
If you're excited by this news, you must be a huge Apple fan. Instead of launching a cool new device, they hide it away in a 3 year old device that still doesn't function properly.

We hate to use our Apple TV because 9 times out of 10, we have to get of the couch and go to the Mac to restart iTunes to access the video collection. "An unknown error occurred. Please try again later." Don't know why they cannot make it more reliable after all these years.

I would prefer they built HomeKit into Airport. Makes more sense.

THIS! - An unknown error occurred. Please try again later. All the ****** time! :mad:
 
Just because YOU have decent WiFi doesn't mean everyone else does. My WiFi is CRAP, I use an extender with an ETHERNET port and I don't forsee a time when that's going to change.

I'm on Xfinity Blast and get 90 - 125, yet it's still rare that I can watch an HD Movie through iTunes without it giving me error messages saying it'll take "3 hours for content to play." I buy digital media for the device that it won't play 75% of the time. What a crock of S. I've stopped buying films from iTunes. Meanwhile, it handles my Netflix, HBO Go, etc. Perfectly fine. The issue is clearly on Apple's end how it "buffers" or "prepares" video streams.

One really wonders why Apple can't do cloud services all that well when they seem to have these huge and modern data centers that they keep building in North Carolina.

Weird that your wifi is that bad when your internet access is very fast. Do you have a lot of interference with other wifi near you? I bet if you had an AC router and Apple TV supported AC wifi then you would probably have a better experience. The AC standard is supposed to be at least twice as fast in real world usage over N. Considering your wifi issues, you must agree with me that Apple should not in 2015 be selling a streaming device that doesn't use the AC wifi standard.

----------

Sure, that's fine for streaming video with 1 ATV connected. However, as soon as you try to airplay anything, your available wifi bandwidth gets cut in half. Good luck trying to airplay on 1 ATV and streaming on another, even with a top of the line router.

Part of that is because the ATV doesn't use AC standard. If it did (and assuming you had an router that supports AC) then you would have at least twice the space to work with. Plus your router would have more antenas to work with. And it could establish a beam to each device.

I've now got an AC router in my house and it could really make a difference if I had any devices in the house beyond my iPhone 6 that could support it. Speed test on the phone is amazing though.
 
I hope one of those isn't Phillips hue as they have said users won't need to upgrade their current hue device. I hope they aren't remaining anonymous due to releasing a new product and screwing current users.

I would think you would have the choice as a current user. You can either keep using the hub, or use the ATV.
 
If you're excited by this news, you must be a huge Apple fan. Instead of launching a cool new device, they hide it away in a 3 year old device that still doesn't function properly.

We hate to use our Apple TV because 9 times out of 10, we have to get of the couch and go to the Mac to restart iTunes to access the video collection. "An unknown error occurred. Please try again later." Don't know why they cannot make it more reliable after all these years.

I would prefer they built HomeKit into Airport. Makes more sense.

That is odd... I'm not saying that you're not having that problem, but here's the setup I have:
(numbers in parentheses are 192.168.99.x)
:apple:TV -wireless-> Router acting as an extender (.2) -wired->Router(.1)-Wired->Internet

The reason for this configuration is that the wifi doesn't reach all over the house.

We have about 6 wifi connections in my house (3 are mine), and maybe there is interference from the neighbors. If you are in an apartment, it gets worse.

Anyway, I hope you get the problem solved, and those that are not having issues with the wired configuration may hold the key. Wired doesn't have to deal with the interference issues that wireless does.
 
No, it isn't. If you have an Airport Base Station, *that* consumes less power. Well, technically, it consumes a lot more power, but it also can't be shut down, which means it is going to consume much of that power whether it is doing work or not. That usually means that throwing work at it is likely to cause the lowest power delta.

So on a network with an Apple ABS, the lowest power configuration would almost certainly involve using the ABS as the proxy (assuming it is connected by Ethernet to the outside world), because that saves you from most of the Wi-Fi power consumption on the ABS itself (idle Wi-Fi takes less power than active Wi-Fi), and it saves you from having the Apple TV powered up. Even if the ABS CPU is dramatically less efficient than the one in the Apple TV, it would be hard to imagine it drawing more power than powering up all that extra hardware would.

If the ABS is connected to the Internet via Wi-Fi, the Apple TV *might* draw less power, assuming it isn't connected through the ABS.

This, of course, all assumes that the Airport Base Station hardware is even capable of doing peer-to-peer Wi-Fi on its own. If not, then I suppose the entire discussion is moot, and the Apple TV will always be the lowest-power device unless you happen to have a Mac that is configured to never sleep.

This is a good point. But I suspect that they typical Smart Home customer is immune to electricity prices. By that I mean that their monthly electricity bill is meaningless in terms of their overall household budget. And I'm sure the Apple TV charge is never going to move the needle in a meaningful way for those families.
 
Bummer it wouldn't support the ATV 2nd Gen. There wasn't enough reason for me to upgrade 2+ years ago and I'm certainly not going to upgrade now after this much time passing. Hopefully a ATV 4th Gen is around the corner.

Once this is more formalized, there will definitely be updated hardware. They had to make the latest (ATV3) compatible. But anything before that is so old, users are probably ready for an upgrade anyway. I know I am.
 
I don't get the frustration?

First of all, it sounds like the AppleTV is simply the "internet listener" that takes home control commands coming in over the net. HomeKit will work just fine without it for controlling things throughout your home while you're on your own network via wi-fi or a wired ethernet connection.

Something has to be on all the time listening for those commands for internet capability to work, and the AppleTV is the cheapest device Apple sells that runs off AC wall power and can do the job.

The alternative would be having to leave one of your computers running all the time with sleep mode disabled, and running some software package to act as the listener/controller. I'd FAR rather spend $99 (less on sale) for an AppleTV to do it (especially as it draws very little power).


Require the use of a device you label a "Hobby" that hasn't had an update in what 3 years now? A device that does a pretty lousy job handling HD Video? At this point I don't even want Apple to update the AppleTV because if past is prologue they'll make it worse. I wouldn't be surprised if the dBags remove the ethernet port making it WiFi only.
 
Knew it! This is going to be very big in the next few years.

Bring on ATV4 with actual apps and native gaming and they will have a Essential hub device.

Location based home control for lighting etc.

If the ATV4 is all that, I'll finally bite and buy one for the new 2015 Sony Android TV I plan to purchase in a couple of months (best of both worlds).
 
Apple blind fanboys will bite whatever Apple throws at them.

I hope you realize, if you are willing to settle for less, you will never get more that is innovation and better hardware.

So... He asks "What else does it need to do?", and all you can do is be insulting, and say 'better hardware'? That's not something else it *does*.

It was a pretty simple question. What else does it need to *do*?
 
I can't get mad at this. Low key, the Apple TV is one of the few devices in my home that comes back online if my internet takes a hit. This is VERY important. I'll take it.
 
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