Siri Control of HomeKit Devices While On the Go Requires Apple TV as Hub

[OldSchoolMacGuy]

Won't require an Apple TV. Just any iOS device. If you leave your iPad sitting at home, that's fine. You'll be able to use Siri on your iPhone to control things at home.

Next versions of HomeKit will allow cloud control via Siri.

Funny how it seems MacRumors, The Verge, and others reporting on HomeKit seem to have not bothered to read a thing about it, how it works, or how it can be used. They make assumptions then state them as facts which continue to be erroneously reported.

 

[Recognition]

None of this is really new at all, just headed towards a common interface via Homekit. I have an app on my iPhone now that can interact via Siri and turn lights on/off both locally and remotely. It uses standard components that have been sold for years. That same interface also handles heat controls and locks.

Which App is this? Thanks.

 

[Ed217]

Which App is this? Thanks.

Its a custom inhouse app done in XCode. Its heavily tailored for my needs and not really suitable for app store.

 

[Sasparilla]

...

Although when you look at it, AppleTV's has evolved nicely in 2014 and doing good competition :
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- And, if you like Apple a lot, we got live Apple Events broadcasted on your TV (with a Chinese voice as a bonus)
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As someone who got to enjoy the constant connection drops and simultaneous multi language voice output of that Apple event - you had me laughing there.

 

[wigby]

I'm not even going to attempt to dispute the current generation console statement, but I do think they could make it a device that could connect to a few controllers and make for some fun party games or ports of old favorites. I don't play many games, but occasionally my friend comes over and we play survival on COD MW3. I would venture to bet it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities to port that to iOS when A9x or A10 come around.

I'm sure you could technically port most triple A titles to iOS. There have been a few successful ones already. I still think they would all fall short the way consoles fall short compared to PC games. But iOS developers are pretty clever and could probably make up for those shortcomings with interesting freemium models and custom iOS hardware integration.

The real issue is Apple's execution of the ATV as a gaming machine. We all know Apple is weak (culturally) on games and also weak (culturally and technically) on social and cloud services. Those 2 things are a must for any gaming machine, especially if you're competing with Sony and Microsoft and even Nintendo. That's why I think if they just position ATV as a casual gaming experience or multiplayer party games like you suggest, they won't be held to a higher standard that hard core gamers expect from consoles.

 

[powers74]

How am I supposed to upvote this?!

 

[jinnj]

it should support ac wifi to take advantage of modern routers. There is no excuse for not having a stealth upgrade to allow that.

Really?!?! Just a software update? Not sure about the 801.11ac but most of the time new hardware is required. In fact the last time Apple was able to update to the their airport via Software was because the protocol was still up in the air but the hardware was finalized and routers were shipping.

 

[DaveN]

I'll bite.

The device doesn't really need an update. It's a low cost networked streaming device that provides 1080p output on HDMI.

It's low power and perfect to be an 'always on' hub for other household devices. It's perfectly logical for it to take on the Home Automation role since it already has the ability to have a visual interface on a device almost everyone has - i.e the TV. It also doesn't need instructions - it's pretty much plug in and go.

What else does it need to do?

I agree. Plus it makes for a nice secondary market for existing Apple TVs.

 

[ebika]

I don't see how the AppleTV (or other iOS devices) can act as a hub for IoT devices. I've seen the stories about requiring new chipsets, but what protocol do they expect to be running? All the IoT devices I have now run some variant of a mesh network over 802.15.4 (some bulbs on 6LoWPAN, some sensors on Zigbee or Z-Wave). They connect to hubs (usually pretty crappy ones) that bridge them to ethernet/wifi. Is Apple expecting Homekit devices to run over normal Bluetooth Low Energy and wifi, or did they sneak in something else into their AppleTV? Are they expecting to have iOS be a hub for hubs? I've been trying to figure out what exactly Homekit is, and I've not found a lot of information on it so far, other than "control your devices with Siri! (and don't worry about how they'll connect for now)"

 

[Ed217]

I don't see how the AppleTV (or other iOS devices) can act as a hub for IoT devices. I've seen the stories about requiring new chipsets, but what protocol do they expect to be running? All the IoT devices I have now run some variant of a mesh network over 802.15.4 (some bulbs on 6LoWPAN, some sensors on Zigbee or Z-Wave). They connect to hubs (usually pretty crappy ones) that bridge them to ethernet/wifi. Is Apple expecting Homekit devices to run over normal Bluetooth Low Energy and wifi, or did they sneak in something else into their AppleTV? Are they expecting to have iOS be a hub for hubs? I've been trying to figure out what exactly Homekit is, and I've not found a lot of information on it so far, other than "control your devices with Siri! (and don't worry about how they'll connect for now)"

I don't believe it will be a hub for the devices, but simply a bridge between IOS and the actual controlling hubs that do work directly with the devices. That way the devices can use whatever protocol they want and the devices hub is the only place that has to understand HomeKit protocol.

 

[Liquorpuki]

With IP controlled homekit accessories however I still see no reason for a hub and predict that it will be possible to control these while away from home without an Apple TV.

It'll be interesting to see how Apple makes this difference clear to people purchasing homekit accessories, if they even do...

I'm still wondering what the purpose of the 2 comm channels are. Apple's requiring accessory MFGers to have include a special wifi/BT chip to get certified. So pretty much everything I have in the house, from my Hue lights to my Dropcam, isn't certified.

Unless there's some secret sauce in that wifi/BT chip, I don't get the strategy. If they just adapted the Apple TV for Z wave and Zigbee support and took advantage of all the third party accessories already out there, they'd be able to take over the market. Instead they're isolating themselves to a brand new protocol when companies like Smartthings, Wink, Revolv, etc have shown the best bridge is the one that lets you painlessly integrate the most protocols.

Apple's also gonna be competing against Samsung, who acquired Smartthings, and Google, who acquired Revolv, both of which turn accessories into commodities by supporting as many as possible.

 

[TallManNY]

Really?!?! Just a software update? Not sure about the 801.11ac but most of the time new hardware is required. In fact the last time Apple was able to update to the their airport via Software was because the protocol was still up in the air but the hardware was finalized and routers were shipping.

I didn't mean a software update would do it. I just meant a non-announced, no big deal, hardware update for Apple TV. Apple does this from time to time. They should have stopped putting in wifi that only accounted for N level last year. But certainly this year they should produce an Apple TV that uses AC standard. If that were the only change, it would make me feel better about the product. And if they upgraded from the A5 chip to the A6 chip and added a bit more storage, I would feel fine about it as it remains a hobby.

But they should not be selling their current hardware. And this is especially the case if it is going to be the homekit hub.

 

[Thomas2006]

I'll bite.

The device doesn't really need an update. It's a low cost networked streaming device that provides 1080p output on HDMI.

It is in dire need of an update, of the following, at the very least:

1. HDMI 2.0 to handle 4K resolution at 60 frames per second.
2. Gigabit ethernet.
3. New processor which will have a GPU that can handle 4K video.
4. PNG image support.

Since the Apple TV does not get updated often, I can see Apple waiting until the A9 processor is available before updating it.

 

[Macboy Pro]

Geez. Lighten up peoples. The thing is a hundred bucks and one of the few actual "values" in the whole apple universe.

I believe it is the general trend that Apple has made for a few years that is really ticking off the Apple customer base. They continue to devalue their products to the consumers who bought them from the beginning.

I totally hate to go back to the Mac Mini but that is a perfect summary of the arrogance of Apple. They pretty much destroyed that product for many folks. They acted like it was a great update, then moved on. This is Apple's mindset that folks are too stupid to think for them selves and will just buy into the BS marketing. Look at the font page for the Mini. "Mini in a Massive way" In a way it is true. It is massively "Mini" but a HUGE disappointment to those that really use a Mac Mini and wanted something post 2012.

Oh well. Gotta love the Big "greenest" company that makes 100% disposable products BY CHOICE, FOR PROFIT THROUGH FORCED OBSOLECENCE.

Apple is the best marketing company on the planet.

 

[DaveTheRave]

My understanding was that it is Amazon that has caused the delay/lack of an app on the Apple TV. Why would that be? Well, because they have a similar box to sell.

I'm surprised to hear that. Its no secret that Amazon sells Kindle's at cost. They don't care about profits on the hardware - they'd rather profit on the content they sell. I would expect that their setup box would be the same. Apple is the opposite - they don't make much money on iTunes, but need to have it to keep people buying iOS devices.

If Apple sells the hardware and Amazon sells the content you'd think they'd both be happy.

 

[Liquorpuki]

I'm surprised to hear that. Its no secret that Amazon sells Kindle's at cost. They don't care about profits on the hardware - they'd rather profit on the content they sell. I would expect that their setup box would be the same. Apple is the opposite - they don't make much money on iTunes, but need to have it to keep people buying iOS devices.

If Apple sells the hardware and Amazon sells the content you'd think they'd both be happy.

Apple also charges a % cut for content distribution. Amazon is pocketing that cut by pushing the Firestick

 

[octothorpe8]

Support Amazon Prime / Instant Video. Apple, stop crippling ATV.

Don't hold your breath. Apple and Amazon are engaged in Clash of the Titans. Just get a cheapo streaming stick of your choice and plug it into another HDMI port.

 

[apolloa]

I somewhat agree with you, but I also disagree to a point.

If you ever lived in an urban area where it's necessary to carry your ten grocery bags at once to your door, a system that could "smartly" unlock your door and turn on some lights would be simply brilliant. But for the cost I'll just struggle with bag, fumble with keys, and knock over a lamp once in awhile. Home kit also isn' the system to be aware of your needs. In my example, I'd have to stuggle with Siri... hope the b%#)%ch understands what I asked her to do ("siri, open the door and turn on the living room lights" and she instead turns on the garbage disposal and secures the dead bolt while turning on the neighbors television due to an IOS security bug)

haha, it would be too much like a horror SciFi if it spoke back and then screwed up! As for the examples, I think sensored lights that come one when you walk in your door are fine, I was thinking of people sitting on a coach and they want an app to turn a light on instead of getting up to do it. Bt I would still prefer a key in a lock, or maybe those electronic keys?

I've had smart lights for decades now and find it quite useful. I never have to worry about coming home to a dark house, or leaving lights on , or entering a staircase and having no lights., or a dozen other situations. Hear a strange noise in the night, hit a button and every light in the house comes on.

I also use automatic door locks and heating controls. The automatic parts for Nest paid for itself in the first 6 months of savings on heat costs. I also have manual controls for all, but rarely need to use those.

Each person makes their own choices, but for me, it was worked well. As the saying goes, your mileage may vary...

Some advice, if your of a nervous disposition you feel the need to turn on every single light in your house when you hear a noise, get a dog! Way way way way more effective and friendly. Unless you're allergic that is or have to leave it alone for long periods of time. Other wise the lights in your house could turn on using sensors when you walk near or pass them. And automatic door locks? Is that internal or external doors? I think keys are still best, then again if someone wants to break in no matter what they will.

Not true.

I've got motion sensors that flip the lights on in the hallway when we get home because it's a pain with your arms full and dangerous otherwise.

I have several lights on timers to shut off because my family seems to like to just flip it on to look in the pantry and never, ever turn them off again.

I have the switch next to the door scripted so a double tap shuts down all the lights in the house and resets the thermostats.

When we're in bed, I can turn off the lights and reset the temperature controls without having to get up-- that qualify as lazy, but plenty of people keep a bedside lamp for just that reason. Mine's electronic.

So you double tap the switch by your door? And as I said above, I was referring to not getting off a sofa to turn a light on etc, if your in bed then you have a bedside light, or you usually have some source of light like a TV remote etc. So it makes sense in that aspect, you sound like a real geek haha, making scripts etc. Did you make the scripts for your heating too? was it difficult?

 

[macduke]

Devices are paired with the hub once paired they are locked together till you reset them. Door locks need secure connections. The devices are pinging back and forth all the time there is a ton of them out there. Different formats Bluetooth and all that.

I mean would sonos and apple work together sense they compete?

I'm not sure if I follow what you're saying. Could the HomeKit devices not pair with a router—especially one that is as advanced as the AirPort Extreme? The bluetooth range on the Apple TV isn't that far. I also don't understand why you brought up Sonos. Apple makes the AirPort Extreme and HomeKit. I also don't understand why a desktop Mac that is always on (or at least powered and can monitor for network connections) and connected much like an Apple TV couldn't dispatch commands either.

 

[Ed217]

Some advice, if your of a nervous disposition you feel the need to turn on every single light in your house when you hear a noise, get a dog! Way way way way more effective and friendly. Unless you're allergic that is or have to leave it alone for long periods of time. Other wise the lights in your house could turn on using sensors when you walk near or pass them. And automatic door locks? Is that internal or external doors? I think keys are still best, then again if someone wants to break in no matter what they will.

Dogs are permanent, and have recurring cost. A button does not. Its much easier and faster than a dog.

External door locks. Automatic works well, as one never has to worry about leaving the house unlocked when gone.

I also have door sensors that send alerts to my phone if opened and I am not there.

 

[steve knight]

I'm not sure if I follow what you're saying. Could the HomeKit devices not pair with a router—especially one that is as advanced as the AirPort Extreme? The bluetooth range on the Apple TV isn't that far. I also don't understand why you brought up Sonos. Apple makes the AirPort Extreme and HomeKit. I also don't understand why a desktop Mac that is always on (or at least powered and can monitor for network connections) and connected much like an Apple TV couldn't dispatch commands either.

my sonos is connected to my home automation. same with my wemo and hue. the app that does it is pretty sophisticated and far more then I would ever expect to see from apple. I mean I have a pill box for my wife that tells her if she forgets to take her pills. sonos announces when one of the family comes home or when there is someone at the door. my doors unlock and the lights come on when I get home and one touch they all go off and lock and night lights come on and dim when I go to sleep. I have a temp sensor under the house that will turn on the heat tape when it gets below freezing. can you really see apple managing that?
I think apple may connect to hubs and do limited things but that's going to be the extent unless companies make accessories that are made to interact with home kit.

 

[apolloa]

Dogs are permanent, and have recurring cost. A button does not. Its much easier and faster than a dog.

External door locks. Automatic works well, as one never has to worry about leaving the house unlocked when gone.

I also have door sensors that send alerts to my phone if opened and I am not there.

A dog may not be easier but it's a hell of a lot faster and that's a fact! A dog will hear someone around your home faster than you or an alarm system will.

As for automatic external door locks, well I hope it doesn't break down whilst you're on holiday one day. An SMS to your phone won't do much good then. Still as I said, if someone wants to get in they will, but if you have a dog they'll think twice first. That's just my opinion of course.

 

[Liquorpuki]

haha, it would be too much like a horror SciFi if it spoke back and then screwed up! As for the examples, I think sensored lights that come one when you walk in your door are fine, I was thinking of people sitting on a coach and they want an app to turn a light on instead of getting up to do it. Bt I would still prefer a key in a lock, or maybe those electronic keys?

Lot of Home Automation's usefulness has to do with when you're NOT home. You accidentally leave the lights on, garage door open, thermostat running, front door unlocked, you currently can't do anything about it without going back home and probably don't even know. With smart devices you can verify OTA you left the lights on and shut them off. Close the garage door, bolt the front door, etc.

Your mom needs to feed the dog when you're on vacation, use your phone to unlock the front door for 5 minutes. On top of that, chain smart devices together via programming and now you can do all sorts of cool stuff. Use the same devices to alert you if something happens at your home that shouldn't. You're not home and a door opens? Send an alert to your phone and trigger a Drop Cam to start snapping photos of the front door and text them to you.

 

[Ed217]

A dog may not be easier but it's a hell of a lot faster and that's a fact! A dog will hear someone around your home faster than you or an alarm system will.

As for automatic external door locks, well I hope it doesn't break down whilst you're on holiday one day. An SMS to your phone won't do much good then. Still as I said, if someone wants to get in they will, but if you have a dog they'll think twice first. That's just my opinion of course.

I already have cats, so dogs are not an option in any form here.

There are other reasons to turn on lights at night other than a noise. Having used this many many times, its quite useful.

Keys still work in the locks, so that option always exists if all else fails. Having been using this for almost a year, I find it very useful and dependable. It also offers some other choices than can also come in handy.

 

[steve knight]

A dog may not be easier but it's a hell of a lot faster and that's a fact! A dog will hear someone around your home faster than you or an alarm system will.

As for automatic external door locks, well I hope it doesn't break down whilst you're on holiday one day. An SMS to your phone won't do much good then. Still as I said, if someone wants to get in they will, but if you have a dog they'll think twice first. That's just my opinion of course.

my dog can't hear jack and some don't care. so my sonos barks at anyone that comes to the door (G) but nothing ins foolproof we don;'t have a lot of problems so my setup works well. now I know if the mailman or UPS drops off a package.