Siri discountinued for existing iPhone users?

[likethesoup2]

Yeah - I had the app for quite a while, and had no problem deducing that it'd be 'leaving for home' on October 15th.

My 12 yr old son, who loved playing with it, also had no problem figuring it out.

Enough said.

 

[jamarotta]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

Wow. Wrong time to get into this forum!
My two cents: an app isn't worth so much frustration. So what if the Siri app was pulled? (it was reported on many sites about the notice FYI)

To answer your question, that's like saying, so what if they pulled 'text messaging'. Not everyone texts, but those who use it would certainly miss it and be very disappointed about its being gone, even to the point of trying to gain support for it to be returned.

Regarding other sites, there's a good comparison with contract law. If you want to revoke an offer from your company that has been posted in say, The New York Times, in order for that revocation to be effective, you have to post the revocation also in the New York Times. This is so presumably the same audience has equal opportunity to see both the offer and revocation. You can't post the revocation in Ladies Home Journal as it wouldn't be legally enforceable. If Apple wants to 'revoke' Siri from iPhone 4 users, then the revocation should be to these users. One way to do that would be to have the message in the Siri App state that. Notice from third parties and other publications that may or may not be read isn't sufficient.

 

[aristobrat]

There are many forums that I am a member of, some for quite a long time. Every forum has its members that like to take things off topic and even go 'after' other members for their opinions. Usually though, those who participate in that sort of thing aren't members that have been around awhile because they are supposed to know the rules and the rules are being enforced.

In your OP, one of the points you made was that "Siri was removed without any notice or warning". Discussing the perceived accuracy of that point (again, a point that you introduced to this thread) does not take the thread off-topic, even if you don't care for the opinions that others have about it.

I stand by my position that Apple did not provide proper notification to existing iPhone 4 users.

Having had an iPhone since the original back in 2007, many apps I've downloaded have since been removed from the App Store. I've never been notified (other than reading about some of them on tech news sites) about any of their removals. Have you had a different experience in regards to notification of apps being removed? Do you know if app developers have contact information for all of their customers, or if the App Store rules allow them to directly contact the customer (outside of the app)?

Another measure to support that claim even now, is what Siri 'says' currently when you go into it. The message is 'Hello, I'm Siri, how can I help you?' followed by 'Sorry,a problem occurred receiving response from the server.' The message does not read 'Sorry, this application has been discontinued on this product' or something more straightforward.

It seems that the old Siri servers have been turned off, leaving the Siri app without the ability to display a customized message.

 

[jamarotta]

Yeah - I had the app for quite a while, and had no problem deducing that it'd be 'leaving for home' on October 15th.

My 12 yr old son, who loved playing with it, also had no problem figuring it out.

Enough said.

Wow, kudos to you. Give yourself a round of applause.

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It seems that the old Siri servers have been turned off, leaving the Siri app without the ability to display a customized message.

The main point of this post was not whether or not people were notified about Siri being discontinued (although it was a side point that I contend is still a valid one). The main point was that the Siri App was pulled from iPhone 4 users who helped support and provide feedback on it over the years to help improve it. Now that it's 'improved' its only available to a select group of Apple users (i.e. iPhone 4s owners) and that should be something people should be concerned about.

As a programmer, it would have been very easy for Apple to publish an update the last day that said, if connection to server is not established, display 'This app is no longer supported'. Even better, they could have kept the server operational for a period of time following the iPhone 4s, with a message saying, this App will expire in 6 months. Please upgrade to the iPhone 4s if you want to continue to use it. Another alternative, would have been to rename the app to 'Siri Lite' and keep this version running while having the full Siri available to the latest iPhone 4s users. Many options, none of which were followed.

 

[ThereGoesJB]

I have to agree with the OP,

everyone realizes that companies are in the business of making money, but this decision seems bizarre... i dont think its worth crucifying a company over but I'm kinda surprised how much people are defending it.

It's just a business making business decisions, and it is just one app... but it's apple we are talking about. Apple shouldnt need the bloated hype over an app to steer sales.

And i think its a good point to be made, some of siri's sucess comes from the users that have been using it, at the very least apple should have let them keep it. This is what companies do with beta tests, was it ever advertised as a trial or beta test?

 

[rwilliams]

As a programmer, it would have been very easy for Apple to publish an update the last day that said, if connection to server is not established, display 'This app is no longer supported'. Even better, they could have kept the server operational for a period of time following the iPhone 4s, with a message saying, this App will expire in 6 months. Please upgrade to the iPhone 4s if you want to continue to use it. Another alternative, would have been to rename the app to 'Siri Lite' and keep this version running while having the full Siri available to the latest iPhone 4s users. Many options, none of which were followed.

I've read this entire thread, and I'm still not sure what more Apple should have done to notify people that Siri was going away. Most of the options you mentioned (display that it's no longer supported, alert you of when it's no longer operational) were followed. On the day that the iPhone 4S was unveiled, Siri stopped working temporarily. No network connections could be made. When the connections started working again, the message from Siri stated that she had a new home in the iPhone 4S, and as of October 15th, she was going away. So they gave us about 11 days notice that the application was no longer going to be supported. Sure, 11 days is not as nice as 6 months would have been, but they warned us.

We also don't know for certain that Siri will never be added to the iPhone 4 or iPad 2. It's still in beta, and there have been hints from different tech pundits that Apple restricted it to the 4S for initial load testing and working out bugs. Apparently, this new version of Siri taxes the servers a lot more than the previous version, which can easily be proven by all of the people in these forums who have been unable to get Siri to connect for hours or days at a time.

 

[sracer]

It said that it was "leaving" for the 4S on October 15. What part of that didn't you understand? I think the issue at hand is your reading comprehension, rather than Apple taking Siri from you.

Did Siri offer any other "warning" besides, "I'll be leaving for home Oct 15th"? That's a pretty obtuse and cryptic message by itself.

 

[rwilliams]

Did Siri offer any other "warning" besides, "I'll be leaving for home Oct 15th"? That's a pretty obtuse and cryptic message by itself.

"I've been replaced! The new Siri is even smarter and better-looking than me, and waiting for you on the iPhone 4S. I'll be leaving for home Oct. 15th."

 

[ThereGoesJB]

"I've been replaced! The new Siri is even smarter and better-looking than me, and waiting for you on the iPhone 4S. I'll be leaving for home Oct. 15th."

sounds like significant changes could have been made ...maybe the newer version wouldnt work (or wouldnt work smoothly enough) with the A4 processor.
If this is the case then i could understand the decision, ...i guess we will have to wait for jailbrakers to confirm

 

[rwilliams]

Don't get me wrong - I didn't like the decision. But seeing as how they're having so many problems with a large subset of the 4 million iPhone 4S users trying to connect to Siri's servers, I'm inclined to think that this was a strategic move to see how much strain is put on their resources. And hopefully, once they've properly scaled for their user base, it will be rolled out to other devices. There's simply no technical reason why they couldn't have included it on the iPad 2.

 

[cyks]

Oh no! They've discontinued a FREE service with only 2 weeks warning.

I'm sure if you yell loud enough, they'll be happy to return all the money you've spent on the app back to you.


There's also one other big reason why Siri is only available for 4S users and why they're not (at least, not currently) offering it to iPhone4 users... to limit the server hit it will take. As it is, Siri was brought down on launch day last Friday... as every 4S user played around with her at the same time. I could only imagine what it'd be like if they allowed iPhone 4 users on those same Siri servers.

Sure, you could argue that it already was available for all iPhone 4 users, but only a (comparatively) small number of people downloaded and were using it... especially compared to now where it's incorporated into iOS5.

 

[jamarotta]

Did Siri offer any other "warning" besides, "I'll be leaving for home Oct 15th"? That's a pretty obtuse and cryptic message by itself.

Thanks Sracer.. I agree with you. It is obtuse and no there was nothing else presented by the app other than a new version would be out with the 4S on 10/15.

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Don't get me wrong - I didn't like the decision. But seeing as how they're having so many problems with a large subset of the 4 million iPhone 4S users trying to connect to Siri's servers, I'm inclined to think that this was a strategic move to see how much strain is put on their resources. And hopefully, once they've properly scaled for their user base, it will be rolled out to other devices. There's simply no technical reason why they couldn't have included it on the iPad 2.

It's not a technological issue if you don't try and force the new app on the older hardware. Siri has been working on the iPhone 4 for a couple of years with no issues (and in fact was improved based on customer feedback). I agree that the new Siri probably needed new servers and new code to support the exponential growth of users by packaging it as an integral component with the 4S, but that doesn't explain losing the existing app which worked fine on the existing servers and iPhone 4 hardware. Also seems strange referring to the iPhone 4 as older hardware already because of this move

 

[sweetbrat]

It is possible that Siri will eventually be available to the iPhone4 and iPad. No one really knows. And no one can say for sure what the reasoning behind it is. You can speculate that it's because the iPhone 4S needed more features, but honestly, I've used my husband's 4 and my 4S is noticeably faster and smoother. So saying that Siri was needed to help the 4S be a success isn't really true. I think there is probably some truth to what rwilliams and cyks said. Siri has been up and down since launch day because there's so many people trying to use it and it's overwhelming the system. So it does make sense that Apple could have limited the people it was available to in order to help cut down on those problems.

To the OP, I understand that you're upset that they took the app away. At the same time, it was a free app, and I guess I always assume that what is free can easily be taken away. It's frustrating and it sucks, but I don't think it means that Apple is headed in the wrong direction overall. People keep posting about things that are happening "post-Jobs." In reality, all of the things that are happening were known about by Steve. Most things that come up in the next few years will still be things that were known about by Steve. Apple has not drastically changed in the past few weeks, so please don't blame it on Steve's death and the new management.

I think Apple did do enough to notify people that the Siri app was going away. If you had questions about what the "going home" message meant, a Google search would have solved it. No, that wasn't the main point of your original post, and I understand that, but you did complain about them not notifying you. They did...they tried to do it in a cute way, rather than being extremely overt about it, but they still did notify people. Wait and see what happens. After things settle down, Siri may appear on the iPhone 4. If not, there is other software than can be used in its place. Apps disappear all the time, and while it's frustrating, I'm not sure it's worth being so upset about it.

Hopefully this post doesn't cause any more arguing. Just putting my thoughts out there.

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that doesn't explain losing the existing app which worked fine on the existing servers and iPhone 4 hardware.

That would mean splitting up the development and support, though. People would have to work on the App and on the new 4S version of Siri, instead of being able to focus on just one. That does complicate things.

 

[jamarotta]

I have to agree with the OP,

everyone realizes that companies are in the business of making money, but this decision seems bizarre... i dont think its worth crucifying a company over but I'm kinda surprised how much people are defending it.

It's just a business making business decisions, and it is just one app... but it's apple we are talking about. Apple shouldnt need the bloated hype over an app to steer sales.

And i think its a good point to be made, some of siri's sucess comes from the users that have been using it, at the very least apple should have let them keep it. This is what companies do with beta tests, was it ever advertised as a trial or beta test?

Thanks ThereGoesJB. I couldn't agree more. I also agree that if Siri for the past couple of years was a Beta there would be more justification for just removing it from existing users (knowing that this is done with Betas and one of the things you accept when you beta something), but in fact it's been a full fledged app and not billed as a beta at all. Appreciate your post.

 

[cyks]

Also seems strange referring to the iPhone 4 as older hardware already because of this move

The iPhone 4 is older hardware though. It was released 16 months ago (an eternity in tech), has been (for all intents on most models) discontinued, and an upgrade has been released in it's place.

 

[fs454]

The Siri app was pulled because it was a free demonstration of technology. Apple bought the company in its entirety and therefore has full control over what happens to a free app in the App Store.

Of course the minority in this situation will complain, but you didn't pay any money for anything.

And hell, they need all the server bandwidth they can get to keep the Siri service on the 4S active. It's currently struggling from launch-week load.

 

[aristobrat]

This is what companies do with beta tests, was it ever advertised as a trial or beta test?

I never saw it marketed as trial or beta. I wonder [if, how much] the acquisition of the Siri company by Apple last year plays into this. The publisher of the Siri app that disappeared was the Siri company, which no longer seems to exist -- not Apple. It'd be interesting to know if puling the Siri app from the App Store was part of their buy-out.

 

[fs454]

I never saw it marketed as trial or beta. I wonder [if, how much] the acquisition of the Siri company by Apple last year plays into this. The publisher of the Siri app that disappeared was the Siri company, which no longer seems to exist -- not Apple. It'd be interesting to know if puling the Siri app from the App Store was part of their buy-out.

again, apple OWNS Siri now. They can do whatever they want with their assets.

 

[Jagardn]

again, apple OWNS Siri now. They can do whatever they want with their assets.

Exactly.

 

[admanimal]

I never saw it marketed as trial or beta. I wonder [if, how much] the acquisition of the Siri company by Apple last year plays into this. The publisher of the Siri app that disappeared was the Siri company, which no longer seems to exist -- not Apple. It'd be interesting to know if puling the Siri app from the App Store was part of their buy-out.

The original Siri app and service was probably left in exactly the state it was in when Apple bought Siri- in other words, it's outdated and Apple has no reason to support some service that they essentially had nothing to do with. They obviously continued to develop the product after the acquisition and Apple's version of Siri is what is on the 4S.

I don't see why this is so shocking or hard to grasp.

 

[jamarotta]

The iPhone 4 is older hardware though. It was released 16 months ago (an eternity in tech), has been (for all intents on most models) discontinued, and an upgrade has been released in it's place.

That's certainly one way to look at. Another way would be that only one week ago (prior to the 4S release), the iPhone 4 was the latest and most current iPhone product that Apple had to offer.

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Exactly.

They sure can, and they just proved it (even if the consumer might not agree)

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The original Siri app and service was probably left in exactly the state it was in when Apple bought Siri- in other words, it's outdated and Apple has no reason to support some service that they essentially had nothing to do with. They obviously continued to develop the product after the acquisition and Apple's version of Siri is what is on the 4S.

I don't see why this is so shocking or hard to grasp.

Not shocking or hard to grasp at all. It's a calculated decision to risk dropping some loyal consumers in order to gain some new ones. I disagree though that they have no reason to support some service that they essentially had nothing to do with. They bought the 'Siri' name and kept it when they bought the service. This is akin to ADT buying Brinks and saying they have no reason to support Brinks customers any longer or Comcast buying NBC and saying they have no reason to care about what NBC viewers think. Sure they want to economize and not have to support two platforms to save costs, but if it costs them more in market share (and only time will tell if there are more decisions likes this one), is it worth it? If Apple as large and as successful as they are, can't find a way to keep old customers happy as well as make new ones, then who can?

 

[b166er]

If you can't tell that there is an enormous difference between the siri app, and the baked in to the 4s siri, then you have not been paying attention.

The app was great, but it is nothing compared to the new 4s Siri.

 

[ThereGoesJB]

again, apple OWNS Siri now. They can do whatever they want with their assets.

no one is arguing whether they can or cant, apple can obviously do whatever they want...thats what we are discussing:

Why would they want to?

and the only answer (until some new hardware requirement can be confirmed or it is re-released for all IOS 5 phones) is for giving the 4S another selling point. It is somewhat of a cheap way to juice up a product a little more since existing products already had it.

This might be a reach, but- imagine if they didnt make this business decision and the macrumors forum was given this as a hypothetical situation and was polled whether they thought apple would discontinue an existing app to make it exclusive to their new phone, the vast majority (if not all) would probably not expect them to do so.

I personally think the 4S is great regardless, which is why i dont see the need to give siri to the 4S exclusively.

 

[b166er]

well the 4s sold a junkton already so I think maybe giving it that extra selling point could not have hurt.

It's a business and Apple plays the game, just like all the other companies out there.

 

[admanimal]

Not shocking or hard to grasp at all. It's a calculated decision to risk dropping some loyal consumers in order to gain some new ones. I disagree though that they have no reason to support some service that they essentially had nothing to do with. They bought the 'Siri' name and kept it when they bought the service. This is akin to ADT buying Brinks and saying they have no reason to support Brinks customers any longer or Comcast buying NBC and saying they have no reason to care about what NBC viewers think. Sure they want to economize and not have to support two platforms to save costs, but if it costs them more in market share (and only time will tell if there are more decisions likes this one), is it worth it? If Apple as large and as successful as they are, can't find a way to keep old customers happy as well as make new ones, then who can?

If they want to support Siri on phones other than the 4S, the way for them to do that is to put the real, built-in Siri on other phones. The Siri app is outdated and essentially nothing like an Apple product at all.

Your analogies don't work because a.) The Siri app was free and therefore no one really owes anything to people who used it and b.) No one before iPhone 4S buyers was ever promised any sort of feature like Siri. In fact I'm guessing that 95% of iPhone 4 and earlier owners have no idea that anything like Siri was even available.