This whole situation is so typical Apple and so typical business practice. Move along.
If you could get it on your iPhone 4, why would you buy a 4S?
Does apple want you to not buy a 4S? Basic business practice.
Siri discountinued for existing iPhone users?
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This whole situation is so typical Apple and so typical business practice. Move along.
If you could get it on your iPhone 4, why would you buy a 4S?
Does apple want you to not buy a 4S? Basic business practice.
cyks
macrumors 68020
Another selling point is far from the "only" reason... especially since the hardware requirement is still open and, as mentioned already, the extra server load they'd face if they opened it up to iPhone 4 (and iPad) users would be significant.
Even if Siri is proven to be able to fully run on an iPhone 4 currently, that doesn't mean that Apple doesn't have bigger, and more hardware demanding, things planned for it in the near future.... things that the iPhone 4 simply couldn't run without bogging down the user experience.
ericrwalker
macrumors 68030
The jailbreak community looks like they are on their way to porting this to the iPhone 4....looks like Apple won't communicate with the non-4S phones yet. Yeah it sucks, I wanted it on my iPhone 4, but in about 6 weeks, that's my wifes problem as it will be her phone and I will have a 4S.
Exactly. Most users would not like it if Apple just pulled an application, without proper notification, after using those same users to help provide feedback on the app over the past couple of years, and then forced you to have to buy the latest product in order to get it back.
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The server for the existing iPhone 4 users is the one they shut down and the new server is now the one online for iPhone 4s users. Load is NOT a factor here as they could have kept the old server providing service to the existing users, and use the new servers as the load for the new users (as they are doing). Yes, it would have mean't running two servers, but come on, its Apple, and just how many servers can I a company the size of Apple maintain? I'm guessing ALOT. Siri did not bog down the iPhone 4 in the form that its been the past couple of years. It actually worked very well (which is probably one of the reasons its now integral the new iPhone!)
maflynn
macrumors Haswell
They've done that before. iTools -> .mac. iTools was a free service, then they switched gears and started charging. Only now in light of the competition they have decided to switch gears again and make iCloud free.
As for the notification, I think you're having a difficult time convincing people that they did not notify users. Could they have done that a better way, perhaps but apple is not a company known for its communication skills.
Regardless of all that, this is a moot point. The bottom line is, if you want Siri buy an iPhone 4S, nothing else will change that.
For apple, as others stated, they made a business decision to only have that on the 4S.
Sure they do. So does that mean if with the next release, Apple decided to eliminate 'text messaging' because its been around for awhile, and the only way to text in the future is you have to buy the iPhoneX in the future, that we should just accept that? Is that what understanding your consumer is all about?
CrAkD
macrumors 68040
Look how bad the servers were on launch day. Can you imagine if they had to accommodate all the 4s users plus everyone with the app? I'm sure Siri will eventually make its way to every iOS device moving forward but they need to build out the servers and they need time to do that.
maflynn
macrumors Haswell
Don't buy the phone - as consumers our power comes with our wallets. Don't like how apple doing things, then buy another phone.
So Text Messaging is a free app and no one would owe anything to to people who used it if Apple eliminated it based on your argument? And further, what your saying is any free app out there, can be eliminated at any time, and no one should care, because nothing is really owed, is that correct? Have you ever watched an Apple commercial? Almost everything they advertise is 'There's an App for that' and almost all of the advertised apps are 'free' apps. Do you think its just possible, that a few people may have just bought an iPhone because one of the selling points are free apps? Free apps, like Siri perhaps?
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Actually, I'm not trying to convince anyway that they didn't notify users. I've consistently pushed forward the point that they didn't properly notify users, which is different. Even today, the cryptic 'unable to connect to server message' is all the notification existing users get. And I disagree, Apple does usually communicate well - in fact, it has such a loyal following because its learned to communicate tech to just about any consumer in a great way. They just failed on this decision relating to shutting down Siri.
As far as the business decision, no one is so naive not to believe this wasn't a business decision. If enough users have a problem with the decision though, they could always change it. I'm sure Siri is undergoing programming changes since its release to 4S users and maybe they will find a way to make it work again on the iphone 4 without too much more overhead/support in the future. But without consumer feedback such as through this forum, there probably would be no point to even trying. I also wonder, now that Siri has been released to many iPhone 4S users, what if the business decision is to discontinue it when the iPhone 5 is eventually released.
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That's a pretty broad conclusion. Since I've owned every iPhone model to date (except the 4S so far), I would say that I probably like the phone. Wouldn't you? Doesn't mean I like everything Apple is doing (or ever has or ever will). I personally think Apple is facing a crossroads in the near future and the more consumer feedback they listen to, the better positioned they will be. Consumers have wallets as power, I agree, but they also have voices. If they didn't, MacRumours wouldn't need to exist.
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maflynn
macrumors Haswell
From this thread you and others got the message. While you didn't get it in a form that you felt was more appropriate the notification was clear enough for you to see that Siri on the iPhone was being discontinued in lou of the 4S.
Its basically a moot point at this stage anyways.
Yes, consumers have voices as well but when apple sells millions of phones in a weekend, Sales speak louder then voices. Besides like any business decision, apple clearly understood that by discontinuing Siri on the 4 would upset a small percentage of users but the risk was worth it as they had a blockbuster release of the 4S.
Instead of posting here and about how bad a choice apple made, send them feedback. Apple does not monitor macrumors and based on the prevailing wind of MR, they make decisions.
Well since Macrumors is quoted today on both ABC Good Morning America and Yahoo News, I'm going to disagree with you that Apple does not monitor Macrumors.
See: http://gma.yahoo.com/cheating-heart-iphone-app-finds-wife-another-man-140300843.html
In addition, I have already sent such feedback. As I said in starting this thread, I felt strongly enough about the topic to post my opinion via this forum to a wider audience (which a feedback form does not do).
spblat
macrumors 6502a
Text messaging is a feature of every phone, and it's marketed as one of many features inherent to the iPhone. Removal of this feature would not be fair nor acceptable (nor in Apple's interest). This does not apply to random apps, even those published by companies acquired by Apple.
This is correct. Free apps like the original Siri come with no guarantee that they will continue to exist or be supported. Apps come and go. developers die or get other jobs. Even paid apps can be abandoned.
Yes, the app store is a selling point for iOS devices. But nobody promises you that any given app wil be there forever. Broadly what's great about the App Store is that there are so many developers and so many choices.
There would be a legitimate outcry, because Siri is now an iPhone feature, as opposed to one of a zillion Apps you can find on the App store. But that won't happen. Apple's Siri division is said to be among the largest at Apple. They appear to be committed to rapidly expanding its capabilities, and I find this thrilling. And I don't want them distracted by having to maintain the original App, which is a mere proof of concept compared to the 4S implementation.
Here's the beginning and the end of my position:
1) The original Siri app was neat. Nobody promised you that it would still be there forever when you downloaded the app two years ago. Change happens.
2) Apple bought Siri. They could have killed it forever, right then. Instead they made you angry by killing the app 16 months after the acquision, and they made me happy by expanding Siri's features OS-wide...but they made you angry again by only including the feature on their latest device.
We can disagree about how many people were inconvenienced or angered by Apple's decision to discontinue support for the original app. But don't we agree that Apple gets to decide what it wants to offer its customers?
noisycats
macrumors 6502a
And yet another alternative is for Apple to program Siri to display a notice with each use proclaiming its end. They did that.
Yep, they sure did. Not the best alternative in my opinion and also an obtuse and cryptic message, again in my opinion.
aristobrat
macrumors G5
I don't agree that load wasn't a potential factor for shutting the Siri app down.
I think that as more and more people see what Siri can do on the iPhone 4s, those without the 4s would be more likely to download the Siri app and start playing around with it, therefore increasing the Siri app load to magnitudes higher than what it was before the iPhone 4s launched.
I think that puts Apple in the position of having to throw more time and resources into maintaining/scaling the the old Siri app backend in order not to give people using the Siri app a negative Siri impression. I don't think that many people will understand that the Siri app uses a different backend that the iPhone 4s Siri. If the Siri app starts being super slow, I think they're going to associate that with Siri on the iPhone 4s being equally as slow.
Although I do like your idea of calling the Siri app "Siri Light" to convey that it doesn't have as many functions as Siri in the iPhone 4s.
IMO, the whole idea that Siri was your live-in personal assistant was kind of cryptic and obtuse for an app, so s/he saying "I'm going home" to indicate the apps will no longer work fits the style.
Out of curiosity, what type of notification would you have preferred?
On your first point, true, except that the app IS still available, just to a select group of people now (iPhone 4s users only). That's different than just discontinuing it for everyone.
On your second point, angry is not my term. I have never said I'm angry if you look back at all the posts. Disappointed yes, do I think its the wrong decision yes, could they have better communicated it yes, but angry no. Posting my opinion here and sticking too it appears to have made some angry judging by some of the off topic personal responses, but I'm not angry with Apple at all, just the things I've just listed and consistently listed.
And yes, I do agree that Apple gets to decide what it wants to offer its customers (any company does). Good companies make the right decisions, and Great companies (like Apple) consistently make the right decisions with the help of understanding its consumer (which is why so many people have come to love tech because of Apple). I would be doing Apple a dis-service if I allowed my opinion on this decision to be silenced or that I should just 'go away' elsewhere as some have suggested.
Except that Nuance most probably wanted to get paid for continuing to do their part as the demand on their servers exploded... probably zillions of $$$. How much would you have been willing to pay of your share of their requested fee? $200?
spblat
macrumors 6502a
Probably not that much, but you raise a good point. We'll never know for sure, but the company that developed Siri didn't develop voice recognition technology, they developed the conversation engine. Hence I expect they had to license the voice recognition technology. So while the app was free, it probably cost them money to operate. The goal had to have been to monetize Siri somehow, and the Apple acquisition was the right outcome for them.
That (the presumed voice recognition licensing cost for the original app) would be another reason (among several others) for Apple to simply drop the original Siri.
Yep, hope your right! Hopefully with time, they can do some Siri development so it's back and over a larger group of iPhone users/ not just the users of the latest model. Perhaps they haven't fully decided yet or they do need more time hence the message 'connection lost with server' vs. an outright discontinuance.
noisycats
macrumors 6502a
I'm curious as well. I imagine the OP would have preferred 'no notification' as in 'this free App would be supported forever'.
OP, what sort of notice would have been sufficient?
Thanks for asking although your assumption would not be correct. The main point of the post was not about the notification, it was about discontinuing the Siri app for one group of users who've used it for two years and giving it to users that have yet to use it. However, since notification was in fact a side issue, I would have preferred either 'This application is no longer supported. You may continue to use existing features as-is or upgrade to the iPhone 4S for additional features and support'. And if that wasn't possible, then 'This application will stop working in 6 months. If you wish to continue to use it, please purchase the iPhone 4S during that period.' This last message, while not the preferred one, would take into account the backlog of availability of the iPhone 4S and make the transition smoother for existing loyal customers. It also would give people time to upgrade which is not an unreasonable thing for companies to do given the financial state of the current economy and also would have taken us past the holiday season/4Q which is typically the busiest purchase season of the year. 'Leaving for home on October 15th' did NOT accomplish the same thing.