SJ and Ryan Tate go at it via email at 2AM!

[RogueWarrior65]

Jobs wins by TKO

This putz is carping about openness equaling revolution. Baloney. The original Mac right up to the SE30 was a pretty closed system. Then they tried out the whole slot-motherboard thing for too many years but the closed architecture of the iMac was what brought Apple back from the brink. Flash blows chunks. Everyone should know that by now. Apple's goal is not to become just another computer maker like the fifty thousand PC hardware companies all fighting for the tiny slivers of the same pie.

 

[cmaier]

Yes, worship him. One of America's most important companies? To whom? The chinese workers that make everything?

The making is far less interesting than the inventing and the designing.

 

[ajbrehm]

An effective monopoly is defined as having more than 90% of a set market.

Where can I find that definition?

 

[mccldwll]

Watching sexual content is not bad, you do not turn into some sexually derranged person for doing so.

Sounds like you've come up with a great ad campaign for aapl's competitors. They all can emphasize that unlike the iPhone/iPad, their devices support porn apps. That should show aapl a thing or two about fascism, restricting personal choice and making users do without content they want to view whenever and wherever.

 

[Carniphage]

Microsoft does not have a 90%+ share of the videogame distribution market to all consoles. Nor does Sony. Nor do MacDonalds serve 90% of the world's hamburgers. If any of them did, they would also not be allowed to adopt their current position

So is that your argument?

If Microsoft had 90% market share of videogames, it would be compelled by law do do what. Allow porn?

What *is* your argument?

C.

 

[ajbrehm]

Jobs made Apple what it is. He is the strategy. I would like to see the "others' work" without him to supervise it and sell it.

Worked in other companies.

Agreed with the first sentence. Controlling the world? care to explain this nonsense?

I can't. You have to ask Steve.

He is trying to control the part of the world that he can control. If you don't think that's scary, that's your opinion. But others think it's scary. And we don't need that.

Perhaps everyone is trying to control the part of the world that they can control. But if that part includes devices used by millions of people it's different.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

Fashion magazine publishers now call the Apple editions of their publications the "Iran Version" due to need to create less risque versions acceptable by Apple's moral standards.

 

[cmaier]

Where can I find that definition?

You can't, because he made it up(1). That's neither the economic nor the legal definition of monopoly. Heck, if you only have 90% market share you're probably an economic oligopoloist, not a monopolist. And unless you have market power (e.g. you can set prices for the industry), you're not likely a legal monopolist either.


(1) more accurately, being an "effective monopoly," whatever that is, has no meaning under the law.

 

[ajbrehm]

the closed architecture of the iMac was what brought Apple back from the brink.

And I thought it was the use of the open CHRP architecture paired with using standards like USB and IDE disks that made it happen.

Talk about confusion.

 

[djalice]

"Lack of freedom" in my opinion means freedom from crapware.

Same applies for homosexuality. I don't mind what gays do in their houses. I just don't want them to hold hands and kiss each other in front of my children. Usually boys don't have interest in girls at young age, so what if they see very often two guys holding hand? They'll think it's normal...

What is wrong with this picture? I don't know where to start!

When I first went to Italy I saw a few men walking around with linked little fingers. My friend told me this was normal for straight men and nothing out of the ordinary. Here in UK girls quite often kiss and hold hands in public. Nobody thinks they are gay and I doubt anyone would care if they were.

What if your child thinks it is normal? So what? That's a good thing because it is normal! I have hung about in gay pubs/clubs all my life and I am still as straight as a die. You can't change someone's sexuality through exposure and even if you can, it's not that big a deal. Your reactions to the things you find objectionable are more likely to effect your children that the thing itself.

 

[Davidkoh]

Sounds like you've come up with a great ad campaign for aapl's competitors. They all can emphasize that unlike the iPhone/iPad, their devices support porn apps. That should show aapl a thing or two about fascism, restricting personal choice and making users do without content they want to view whenever and wherever.

Not saying that they shouldn't block porn on the iPad. I am just saying that the argument SJ was using (the one about that it was good that iPad had no flash because that meant no porn) is a stupid one. That would first imply that porn is bad, and also imply that blocking it is good.

 

[mccldwll]

Has anyone ever considered it wasn't Jobs who was writing these emails? But, perhaps, a team?

Shhhhhhhh. Next I suppose you'll suggest Santa Clause doesn't deliver all the presents himself by sleigh, and the Easter Bunny doesn't hide the eggs.

 

[ajbrehm]

You can't, because he made it up(1). That's neither the economic nor the legal definition of monopoly. Heck, if you only have 90% market share you're probably an economic oligopoloist, not a monopolist. And unless you have market power (e.g. you can set prices for the industry), you're not likely a legal monopolist either.


(1) more accurately, being an "effective monopoly," whatever that is, has no meaning under the law.

I know he made it up. Just wanted to see what he would do.

 

[Atkins]

I can't. You have to ask Steve.
He is trying to control the part of the world that he can control. If you don't think that's scary, that's your opinion. But others think it's scary. And we don't need that.
Perhaps everyone is trying to control the part of the world that they can control. But if that part includes devices used by millions of people it's different.

It's not that different. I control what happens in my house. If you want in, well...
Those devices are sold to people and all of the information about them and what they do is available. There's your choice.

PS. Btw, about what Steve Jobs created - please educate yourself: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

 

[Ochyandkaren]

Yes, worship him. One of America's most important companies? To whom? The chinese workers that make everything?



Apple is exerting a frightening amount of control of many different media - music, internet video, digital books, etc. It should be something people are concerned about, but the Steve worship continues.

Are you bin Laden?
Isn't that Bin Laden argument?

Apple is tiny compared to many USA companies.


Apple is the Most Creative and Innovative USA company.
And that is because of whom?

OH, Bill Gates is all over the place giving money to governments who themselves invest in open source technology but give Microsoft free ride.
Freedom?

 

[Nemesis]

Watching sexual content is not bad, you do not turn into some sexually derranged person for doing so.

Porn is not about sex, it's about exploitation, lessening our choices and about lowest denominator of understanding the complexity of our love- and sexual-life. As a society we've had enough lowest common denominators rule our lives. To be a human being also means growing and going well above our lowest, and not persistently and blatantly being reminded about it.

 

[Nuvi]

Same applies for homosexuality. I don't mind what gays do in their houses. I just don't want them to hold hands and kiss each other in front of my children. Usually boys don't have interest in girls at young age, so what if they see very often two guys holding hand? They'll think it's normal...

Don't you know the history of Apple? Check out the old Apple logo... I know its so... well, colourful. I've heard that Mac OS X can lead to flaming gay syndrome which is well diagnosed in latest issue Wired magazine. Especially if you or any of relatives are left handed and use mouse or trackpad with OS X 10.4 - 10.6.3. In this case you should seek medical attention or alternatively switch to Commodore 64 or Vic-20 in order to shelter yourself and your loved ones from the abnormal effects of the world surrounding you. Seriously... There is nothing normal in this world. What you think is normal is just a fragment of your own imagination.

 

[Carniphage]

Porn is not about sex, it's about exploitation, lessening our choices and about lowest denominator of understanding the complexity of our love- and sexual-life. As a society we've had enough lowest common denominators rule our lives. Being human being also means growing and going well above our lowest.

The funny thing is, that in countries with the most porn. The most liberal standards, and the most relaxed attitudes to pornography, the equality of women, their rights, the equality of pay and so on ... is all *more* equal.

And those countries which have a complete and total ban, are the ones with the worst record of domestic violence, female infanticide and so on.

Correlation is not causation etc. But it is an interesting correlation no?

It's not hard to find the statistics to validate this.

C.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

OH, lay.

Porn is not about sex, it's about exploitation, lessening our choices and about lowest denominator of understanding the complexity of our love- and sexual-life. As a society we've had enough lowest common denominators rule our lives. To be a human being also means growing and going well above our lowest, and not persistently and blatantly being reminded about it.

Precisely!

I watch porn from time to time, and i think i have a wild imagination.
You know you cannot get laid every time you want. So you already see why i watch porn over the internet?



Your answer should be framed.

 

[mccldwll]

Not saying that they shouldn't block porn on the iPad. I am just saying that the argument SJ was using (the one about that it was good that iPad had no flash because that meant no porn) is a stupid one. That would first imply that porn is bad, and also imply that blocking it is good.

I agree that in isolation it's not that great an argument. The non-short cut argument is that a side benefit of not supporting flash, which is not supported because it creates other problems for the iPad/iPhone system which aapl would prefer to avoid, is that most existing porn video can not be accessed. That's a real negative for many of the pro-porners in this thread, but a major positive for the majority. However, I seriously doubt Jobs himself would waste any time arguing that point with a twit like Tate.

 

[The Phazer]

Perhaps you should do a few Google searches and reading yourself. Economists across the board will tell you any day of the week that monopolies are never characterized only by market share.

Pray, what should we use for the definition of monopoly than the legal definition document on monopolies for the biggest international trade agreement in the world?

Amazing to me that Apple haters like to speak out of both sides of their mouths. On the one hand they pound on Apple for exploiting their "monopoly" to oppress the poor consumers who are being herded into the Apple store by default, and forced to reach into their back pockets to buy these freedom sapping, evil, mind-controlling devices.

On the other hand they rejoice that some very pointed statistics show that the Android has suddenly "eclipsed the iPhone in market share." Actually not even close to being accurate.

Please, feel free to point out where I've ever mentioned anything to do with the share of Android sales.

And feel free to come back and apologise when you fail.

Do yourself a favor. Don't buy Apple products. Go buy the alternatives that exist and will do your bidding. Or, if there are no alternatives, take Steve Job's advice to Mr. Tate: Go create, and stop bitching. Surely, if the market for your vision exists you will both become rich, and do humanity a great service, instead of coming off as a whiny wanker.

Or I could get my elected representatives to look at legal action to prevent Apple breaking the law. And am doing that.

Phazer

 

[kingtj]

re: the whole porn thing ....

Honestly, I can't get inside Steve's head to speak for him and explain his reasoning, but I *suspect* he's got more of a clue than most people are giving him credit for.

Everyone's so busy focusing on his interest in keeping porn off the iPhone and iPad, thinking he's being a "prude" and "doesn't understand freedom", etc. etc. But look at it another way. A HUGE percentage of the spam and spyware/malware out there in the Windows PC world comes from where? Yep, porn sites!

The fact is, the vast majority of providers of online porn are unscrupulous individuals who would sell their own family off to make a buck. If you start doing business with these people, you stoop to their level, ethics-wise. I think Jobs has the foresight to realize this, and to try to keep his products away from their "marketing strategies".

Awful, awful "article".

Still, Jobs' replies are pretty pathetic too. Freedom from porn? What a joke. Way to completely fail to understand what freedom means. Maybe I should move to China so I can get freedom from porn, foreign news, and government opposition! I love how he speaks like porn, information theft, and high battery drain apps are only associated with the "PC", LOL!

Is this guy turning senile or does he just get more and more out of touch with the world with each passing day?

 

[daxomni]

Porn is not about sex...

That's just your view. Not all of us agree.

...it's about exploitation...

Who exactly is being exploited? Your eyeballs?

...lessening our choices and about lowest denominator of understanding the complexity of our love- and sexual-life.

I've looked at this part a few times and I honestly don't think it means what you think it means. In fact I'm not sure it actually means anything at all.

As a society we've had enough lowest common denominators rule our lives. To be a human being also means growing and going well above our lowest, and not persistently and blatantly being reminded about it.

To you pornography reminds you of humanities lowest qualities. To me it's a petty complaint by busy bodies with a questionable moral compass. It's not that I think porn is such a great wonderful thing, but is it really the lowest level of human depravity? Hardly. If you got out of the house more and read up on real news you might find that there are far worse things in the world than legal porn. Go out and fight a truly moralistic battle and I'll back you up, but fighting porn is so low on the list of human ills that I can't take it seriously. Not with all of the actual suffering still going on today.

 

[Ochyandkaren]

The funny thing is, that in countries with the most porn. The most liberal standards, and the most relaxed attitudes to pornography, the equality of women, their rights, the equality of pay and so on ... is all *more* equal.

And those countries which have a complete and total ban, are the ones with the worst record of domestic violence, female infanticide and so on.

Correlation is not causation etc. But it is an interesting correlation no?

It's not hard to find the statistics to validate this.

C.

That is true.

But remember for example look at Saudi Arabia, NOT public doesn't mean absent?
Prostitution is rampant in that country, but kissing in public is punished!


What Jobs did say (and i think you'll concur) is protecting children from porn (you may say that that is parents job. But it denotes a concern any parent would like others to have toward their child), Not the groin up.

 

[Davidkoh]

Porn is not about sex, it's about exploitation, lessening our choices and about lowest denominator of understanding the complexity of our love- and sexual-life. As a society we've had enough lowest common denominators rule our lives. To be a human being also means growing and going well above our lowest, and not persistently and blatantly being reminded about it.

I never claimed porn was about sex, porn is just showing sexual content. Wether you like it or not others do, and it is not bad or damaging, therefor using blockade of sexual content is not a argument to do something.

I agree that in isolation it's not that great an argument. The non-short cut argument is that a side benefit of not supporting flash, which is not supported because it creates other problems for the iPad/iPhone system which aapl would prefer to avoid, is that most existing porn video can not be accessed. That's a real negative for many of the pro-porners in this thread, but a major positive for the majority. However, I seriously doubt Jobs himself would waste any time arguing that point with a twit like Tate.

Well, classifying it as a side-benefit would still need for porn to be bad, and that it is not. Some people might not like it, some might think it is bad, but that doesn't make it right. Hell, some might even believe "porn is the work of the devil!", but they are just plain stupid.