Sketchy Rumor Claims Apple Developing Nintendo Switch-Style Gaming Console

[sublunar]

Yep. I'd bet a custom processor is for a new AppleTV Pro/Arcade. I certainly believe that Apple will leverage their mobile gaming experience to sell a broader gaming initiative, building upon Apple Arcade. Seems possible that they could develop a separate dock/controller for iPhones and iPads, although I have a hard time picturing it. It'd be a challenge to design a controller that adapts to different screen sizes. I'd expect some sort of wireless or magnetic connection if iPhones are truly going port-less.

Why would Apple want a physical docking/controller? If they are really developing a controller for a gaming AppleTV, I guess a docked controller would bring feature and experience parity to the mobile gaming experience. I just don't see them developing a one-trick-pony Switch-like device. I'd assume they'd want games playable across their ecosystem, where they might have a competitive advantage.

I also take issue with the "Apple doesn't get gaming crowd". They clearly have bigger plans for Apple Arcade. I think Apple has simply not been interested in build big, hot, noisy, and expensive gaming rigs and consoles; and certainly not at a loss. Historically those machines are what has driven AAA gaming. My bet is that this all changes with Apple Silicon and, to some extent, their AR/VR ambitions. The high-end gaming market will continue to grow and I can't see Apple leaving that money on the table and such a glaring whole in their ecosystem.

An iPad-like games machine will need better than a 7.5w Qi charger though. If they were using USB-C they could expect 30w wired chargers to work for a faster charge.

No need for a specific fork of iOS - regular iOS would do just fine unless Apple are doing something to address the games market specifically (if a deal were coming in the Epic trial) were coming for example - a limited music, movies and gaming only iOS variant perhaps.

All this talk of a custom games Cpu sound very much like a red herring anyway because as I said before they could take a binned M1, chop off 2 performance cores and put that into a lower cost iPad. It could even just end up being an A14 from a current generation iPhone for simplicity.

I just can't see Apple doing something customised specifically for gaming (like an A14z, extra graphics cores, fewer performance cores) unless they can get a decent supply of binned M1 series CPUs with deactivated performance cores.

How about Apple just shrink a current iPad Air 4 (A14 cpu, USB-C connector) into a smaller case with 8.9" screen? Price wise that would make for a really compelling iPad mini 6 in my opinion. Could Pro-motion comes into it for games reasons?

And what do they do with the forgotten iPod touch? They could drop an A12 SoC into it since that CPU lives on in the current iPad and AppleTV or maybe just do a non cellular iPhone SE 2020.

 

[spinedoc77]

Why bother? They already have the ipad mini, just stick a M1 chip in it, make some sort of cradle with controllers on the side and call it a day. This rumor makes very little sense.

 

[mazz0]

Seems more likely they’re just gonna release a first party controller add-on for iPhone doesn’t it?

 

[unsui_grep]

An iPad-like games machine will need better than a 7.5w Qi charger though. If they were using USB-C they could expect 30w wired chargers to work for a faster charge.

Maybe some sort of proprietary MagSafe type of connection? Dunno. They must have something in the works for a portless iPhone that can transmit data.

All this talk of a custom games Cpu sound very much like a red herring anyway because as I said before they could take a binned M1, chop off 2 performance cores and put that into a lower cost iPad. It could even just end up being an A14 from a current generation iPhone for simplicity.

I just can't see Apple doing something customised specifically for gaming (like an A14z, extra graphics cores, fewer performance cores) unless they can get a decent supply of binned M1 series CPUs with deactivated performance cores.

I agree. Any sort of custom cpu would have to target a gaming AppleTV and an AR/VR devices IMO. I just don't see the advantage of pushing binned M1s into a low cost iPad. Another M variant with extra graphics cores targeting realtime 3D graphics machines could make sense. Maybe drop those into an AppleTV Pro for better Arcade performance, AAA games, and for AR/VR processing. Or they could use those in the headset device itself. This rumor seems farfetched but there might be a grain of truth in there somewhere.

 

[lordcradden]

iPad mini in Air 4 style. Apple release side attaching controllers. Pay Nintendo $1 trillion to release full Mario Kart 8 to Apple Arcade

 

[MICHAELSD]

It’s hypothetically possible and they have the performance/resources to technically pull it off.

Based on their current track record I see any sort of gaming console by Apple being a relative failure unless they have a really stellar marketing executive and lineup of exclusive games.

 

[Arislan]

Now, if Apple was actually designing the Nintendo Switch Pro, this would be fantastic news. I just don't see it making sense for them on their own. Apple Arcade is lackluster to say the least and getting AAA titles on a new system would be an uphill climb.

 

[Labeno]

Nintendo Switch is successful with great games because Nintendo makes a physical game controller as the primary input. Apple requires the touch screen as the primary input, which ruins the idea of great multi-control games on iPhone.

 

[sublunar]

Maybe some sort of proprietary MagSafe type of connection? Dunno. They must have something in the works for a portless iPhone that can transmit data.


I agree. Any sort of custom cpu would have to target a gaming AppleTV and an AR/VR devices IMO. I just don't see the advantage of pushing binned M1s into a low cost iPad. Another M variant with extra graphics cores targeting realtime 3D graphics machines could make sense. Maybe drop those into an AppleTV Pro for better Arcade performance, AAA games, and for AR/VR processing. Or they could use those in the headset device itself. This rumor seems farfetched but there might be a grain of truth in there somewhere.

It all depends if Apple has a ready supply of M1 CPUs with 1 or 2 performance cores that need to ne deactivated. If they can't meet demand with a steady supply of binned CPUs then the easy way out is just to use the A14 and call it a day. Let's not forget that some relatively sketchy rumours had the A14 turning up in an AppleTV and since we got the A12 instead it's perhaps feasible that there may have been some confusion with an iPad mini instead.

 

[unQuestionable]

I feel it would be so dope if Apple bought Nintendo. They instantly get all the IP, and they're family friendly overall, so I feel it would fit in well with the brand.

 

[ian87w]

Meh, doesn't sound right. Apple would rather people to simply buy an iPhone instead.

 

[4nNtt]

Makes sense to me. Nintendo / Switch would be much easier to compete with then Xbox/PS5.

If Apple is going to build an AR headset that starts at $1000, they would need another chip with more GPU cores, but not as much CPU as the M1. That would also work for a game system.

 

[dukebound85]

I can see that happening.

not me

 

[dukebound85]

Makes sense to me. Nintendo / Switch would be much easier to compete with then Xbox/PS5.

If Apple is going to build an AR headset that starts at $1000, they would need another chip with more GPU cores, but not as much CPU as the M1. That would also work for a game system.

The IP Nintendo has is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MS/Sony and especially anything Apple has

 

[Abazigal]

Not going to happen. Apple already has the iphone, and console games is still considered a niche compared to the scale of mobile gaming (both in terms of user base and the revenue it brings).

We can all salivate over the thought of a hand-held switch-like device with an M1 chip, the fluidity of iOS and the full ecosystem integration, and it will likely stay as that - a pipe dream.

 

[reyesmac]

Not enough AAA titles, no console games, I'm sure we would be locked out of using emulators to play thousands of old games for free. Whats the point? It would be better for them to create a dock with controllers on it for their iPads than to create a console that will play iPad games only. This is as much vaporware as the Apple TV that can play hit games. When game companies are running to the platform to port their titles then you can try and pull off something like this. And if apple is going to play dumb with graphics drivers to drive the best non apple monitors out there, that's one more reason not to port games over to the Mac. Apple has a lot to fix before it can take on any gaming companies. Something as lackluster as what they did with tv is a waste of resources.

 

[reyesmac]

One way apple could go after the gaming market the apple way is to create their own apple only space for games. They did so with the iPhone. They can do so with VR glasses. If you can put on some glasses and the game your playing can take up more than the screen of the device your viewing it on, now you have games that will be in demand but apple controls it all in a walled garden. Then I could see them making controller and all sorts of overpriced tech that you must buy to play these games since 3rd parties would be locked out for a while till apple gets all the moneys. VR could work on Apple TV because the tv would only put things on the screen that help the glasses know where to place the graphics, it wouldn't be generating most of the graphics itself. If you could look at your watch and stuff pops out of the watch, you could put games on any apple device really. Lets hope they are this ambitious and not do something lame with it.

 

[MacBH928]

this makes sense:-

• Apple has a powerful, cool, and energy efficient chip
• Apple likes to sell Apple hardware
• There are already a lot of games on iOS that use Metal on the App Store
• Games are bigger market than hollywood, so investment wise its better than Apple TV+
• Apple likes 30% cuts
• Venturing into games(software) and consoles(computer hardware) makes more sensing than producing movies and building a smart car.
• Apple has lots of experience in building portable, powerful, power efficient devices.
• Apple already has all the hardware, software, engineering capability, user base, and developer base to do it.
• Microsoft is doing the same thing
• It can build Apple Arcade into a gaming subscription like Playstation+ and Xbox Game subscription + game streaming like Stadia. Apple loves subscriptions.

People who say iphones and ipads are gaming devices are not correct. My understanding is that the way consoles works is that they dedicate 100% of its hardware to run games giving that extra boost instead of computer or smartphone that runs a whole OS over the chip then a whole game over that OS.

For comparison, the PS3 came with 256MB RAM meanwhile the iMac came with 1GB(4x) but I bet the iMac was no where capable at running PS3 games.

 

[UltimaKilo]

I’m sorry, but the only feasible way for them to lean heavier into gaming anytime soon went out the window with the AppleTV. Could Apple be developing their version of DLSS for a future chip? If so, that could open up a whole world of possibilities for the Apple TV and gaming.

 

[MacBH928]

Any one else impressed MacRumors remembered an Apple Console article from 15 years ago and got the link to it?

 

[Searing]

MACBH928 You are absolutely right. Apple should make a gaming console, the only thing that is hilarious is they haven't already done so. They are leaving 5 billion dollars a year in profit on the table (about 25 billion in revenue). The actual increase in profit and revenue could be huge, as it would encourage more sales of all Apple products. It is also much easier for Apple to dominate gaming instead of TV (Apple TV+ seems silly to me) as they have superior hardware, but anything can play a movie (content + hardware vs. just a content business).

Apple is switching all their products to a unified platform similar to the M1. Phones, Macs, iPads, they will all have the same level of capability and are all broadly compatible with the same software. What are they missing? An Apple TV with an M1 (minus the phone parts stripped out) and a similar Switch like device.

People forget the economics of a gaming device. That $500 iPad Mini can be sold more profitably as a slightly smaller $300 device if it is gaming focused, that's the power of large royalties and first party development studios (Nintendo profits A BILLION dollars on the Switch with each major first party release). The synergy is insane for Apple, they literally already manufacture all the parts for such a gaming device, they don't even need anything they don't already make.

All they have to do is take the iPad Mini, shrink it a bit, stick an M1 like chip in it, minus all the non gaming parts (remove the cellular and machine learning and DSP from it, boom, the chip is half the size and a quarter the price to manufacture). Integrate the controller like the Switch Lite (the idea of removeable joy-cons is a profitable gimmick and yet almost NO ONE uses them to game disconnected, they are useless that way) and sell it with a cheap USB-C to HDMI dock. $300 like the Switch but 4x faster.

It supports their Apple Arcade push, and EVERY game that comes to the Apple Switch would be available on a equivalent Apple TV device ($250), the iMac and iPad and even iPhone also (with a controller).

There are all sorts of creative ways to get in to gaming, Microsoft is spending 10's of billions per year on acquisitions. Apple could buy Sega if they can't buy Nintendo. Imagine an Apple x Sega product, with Apple providing Sega with billions of dollars. Or work with Capcom. Japanese people are crazy for iPhone products (almost half of all phones sold in Japan), they love portables, they are only wedded to Nintendo as there is no alternative.

Apple M1 can play all PS4 games portably, it has the same performance. It would be crazy light compared to the Switch, and have no fan, while being 4x faster. Don't underestimate the cool factor. Apple also has the manufacturing capacity, they won't have shortages like Microsoft. The only problem I see is Apple's corporate ignorance, they are full of people that don't get Mac users and don't get gaming, I'm not sure they have the leadership to pull it off. Macs have been treated badly at Apple for a decade, they only get the iPhone and iPad right.

Apple regret missing out on Netflix, and now only have the sad Apple TV+ instead. They are about to miss the Netflix of gaming, Microsoft is beating them to it.

 

[diamond.g]

I’m sorry, but the only feasible way for them to lean heavier into gaming anytime soon went out the window with the AppleTV. Could Apple be developing their version of DLSS for a future chip? If so, that could open up a whole world of possibilities for the Apple TV and gaming.

I have asked @leman about a DLSS equivalent on Apple Silicon, and he(?) seems to think Apple would rather use variable rate rendering instead of a general/ML upscaler to improve performance.

 

[leman]

I have asked @leman about a DLSS equivalent on Apple Silicon, and he(?) seems to think Apple would rather use variable rate rendering instead of a general/ML upscaler to improve performance.

What I meant is that the performance cost of DLSS is not very clear. So far, the focus has been on already high-performance GPUs using ML upscaling to d ridiculous things like 4K or 8K gaming. DLSS is a great fit for Nvidia since their GPUs already include ML accelerators, so they can just use that hardware to do upsampling at very little added cost. But even something like a RTX 2060, which can be considered mid-range by now, offers in excess of 50 TFLOPS (compared to quoted 11 TFLOPS for M1 neural engine). I am not quite sure how to compare these numbers as I have no idea how they count their FLOPS, but I think it's fairly certain that M1 is at least 2-3 times slower in that department. Is it enough for ML upscaling? Not so sure.

Besides, there is also a practical problem of the training sets. Nvidia has access to a wast array of games and they have supercomputers rendering games at superresolutions 27/4, training their ML models. Apple doesn't have the infrastructure to do this. I can however see them (or someone) porting the open source ML upscaling model that is reportedly in development by AMD.

To sum it up, I think Apple has a lot of ways besides DLSS to improve performance on higher resolutions. TBDR architecture is already a big win here, then they have variable rate rasterization (which can deliver healthy savings with very little IQ loss), free multisampling as well as high-performance virtual textures that can also optimize RAM bandwidth on high resolution while improving both performance and image quality.

 

[Searing]

Also if Apple REALLY wanted to go crazy, make their gaming console path tracing (fully ray traced) focused. Their IGP partner pioneered it before nVidia (Imagination Technologies).

What I meant is that the performance cost of DLSS is not very clear. So far, the focus has been on already high-performance GPUs using ML upscaling to d ridiculous things like 4K or 8K gaming. DLSS is a great fit for Nvidia since their GPUs already include ML accelerators, so they can just use that hardware to do upsampling at very little added cost. But even something like a RTX 2060, which can be considered mid-range by now, offers in excess of 50 TFLOPS (compared to quoted 11 TFLOPS for M1 neural engine). I am not quite sure how to compare these numbers as I have no idea how they count their FLOPS, but I think it's fairly certain that M1 is at least 2-3 times slower in that department. Is it enough for ML upscaling? Not so sure.

Besides, there is also a practical problem of the training sets. Nvidia has access to a wast array of games and they have supercomputers rendering games at superresolutions 27/4, training their ML models. Apple doesn't have the infrastructure to do this. I can however see them (or someone) porting the open source ML upscaling model that is reportedly in development by AMD.

To sum it up, I think Apple has a lot of ways besides DLSS to improve performance on higher resolutions. TBDR architecture is already a big win here, then they have variable rate rasterization (which can deliver healthy savings with very little IQ loss), free multisampling as well as high-performance virtual textures that can also optimize RAM bandwidth on high resolution while improving both performance and image quality.

Agree. In my opinion DLSS tech is a very dumb idea until you are at very high resolutions that mask the differences. Also DLSS ruins the game in motion. Since Apple needs to focus on general performance, DLSS type nonsense should be ignored. DLSS is mainly nVidia searching for a use for all the datacenter muck that is in their GPUs now. Apple should be focused on pure gaming, thankfully Apple does not put the M1 in the datacenter and they can focus on the right things.

 

[diamond.g]

Would Apple really make a gaming system that cannot run games at at least 4K60?