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I'd be interested in a gaming focussed iMac. I purchased my i9/Vega 48 iMac to be a work/gaming machine and its been good so far. If Apple can offer something incredible such as a 5k/120hertz display with the option of a Radeon 5800xt or even 5900xt and overhauled thermals so it can run such graphics cards without having to down clock them, then I would likely upgrade.
 
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Well, to be fair, they can only speculate on the software based on the hardware clues. Could this hardware clue include more powerful GPU (relatively speaking) tied into a variable refresh rate display - eg 120Hz 4k 24" IPS panel with low latency for an iMac SKU? If tied into a Radeon Pro 5700 - for example - someone in the hardware supply chain might conclude that Apple is suddenly wanting to attract gamers when all they are doing is sampling up for a future video editing Pro SKU.

The kink in that logic is that streaming software isn't reliant on beefy hardware - in fact the whole point would be that you can theoretically use your Macbook Air to run a AAA game, it's just an internet dependency. So they can either be building a ~$5000 gaming machine or a cloud streaming service a la Stadia, but having both would be redundant.

Refresh rates are one hardware thing you could still look at, but it would be crazy for them to release an entirely new gaming machine just to run a 120Hz display (especially as streaming retina at 120Hz is probably borderline possible for most internet connections). But GPU and everything is is basically immaterial, other than powering your display. The entire goal of a Stadia-like streaming service would presumably be that any Mac user with any existing Mac device could use it to game on.
 
They can not sell a gaming machine to the public for more than 2500$. The Mac users that wanna game don’t have that much money.
As for E-sports there would need a seriously good selling point to justify Apples premium price.

To keep it simple and affordable they could make something like the iMac with a 24” display and most importantly a powerful (hopefully replaceable) GPU for around 1600$. This iMac would fit well within the current offering.
If they rework the whole line up of iMacs those specs could be improved ie: 24” entry, 27” gaming and a 30”.

As for a gaming laptop, poor choice as MB Pro’s are expensive for reasons not important to gaming (battery life, light weight, thin)

Last option : a bigger Mac “mini” for gaming, specs similar but with a dedicated graphic card starting at 1200$ and a connection to Apple Arcade somehow.
 
The trouble is the "source" of the supposed leak is in the hardware manufacturing chain. So if it were true at all, it'd have to be a piece of hardware.
Good point. And that’s what makes it so sketchy... someone steeped in hardware sees some specifications and is guessing that specs of that level are usually in gaming PC’s that cost a certain amount.

Though, reading the original post again AND seeing how it aligns with WWDC (which is also when Apple should be cluing developers in on any new hardware) could just be a definition of the rumored ARMacOS system.

[WYLDSPECULATION]
Though Intel sells a whole range of processors, the lowest spec’d processor Apple uses is a 2.3GHz dual‑core Intel Core i5. They only source a single Core i3 processor with the 3.6GHz quad‑core Intel Core i3.

Because of them, we’ve become accustomed a CPU performance gradient across laptop and desktop lines. BUT, what if the “base” level of performance in an Apple laptop was at a Core i9 level or better? Then, you’d have to have a different set of criteria for what determines high end from low. We already have a model for this with the iPhones and iPads... they’re all the same CPU/Graphics performance in a range (for a given year of the iPhone/iPad) with the money you spend determining your extras (connectivity or storage options).

However, there are MORE interesting things to tie to high end in something like a laptop. Instead of just connectivity and storage options, you could add RAM options, you could add graphics/refresh rate options and do so in a way that you can still define a simple one or two base options then provide BTO over that. It could very well be that the hardware they see that looks like a $5,000 PC is because they’re assuming an Intel CPU and performance envelope. They THINK it’s for a gaming PC, when really, that’s the performance you’d expect from the base model of their laptops/desktops running under their custom ARM motherboards.
[WYLDSPECULATION]

It might not say anything about macOS becoming a better place for gaming and actually say more about how Apple’s ARM performance could change what we expect from macOS computers.
 
The kink in that logic is that streaming software isn't reliant on beefy hardware - in fact the whole point would be that you can theoretically use your Macbook Air to run a AAA game, it's just an internet dependency. So they can either be building a ~$5000 gaming machine or a cloud streaming service a la Stadia, but having both would be redundant.

Refresh rates are one hardware thing you could still look at, but it would be crazy for them to release an entirely new gaming machine just to run a 120Hz display (especially as streaming retina at 120Hz is probably borderline possible for most internet connections). But GPU and everything is is basically immaterial, other than powering your display. The entire goal of a Stadia-like streaming service would presumably be that any Mac user with any existing Mac device could use it to game on.

You missed my next paragraph:

The interpretation of 'gamer Mac' might have come from hardware assemblers making sample devices to Apple specifications who have no idea of the purpose of the software being developed for the hardware under test.

If we take out the gaming speculation that the article posits we could actually just be looking at a new iMac product if you forget any of the gaming stuff.

What I'm saying is this sketchy rumour has possibly come from someone in the Mac supply chain where at this stage Apple may have requested samples to have been made which must be 'different' enough to make people there report to their contacts in the local press (in this case Taiwan economic daily news).

On the basis that these supply chain guys can only report on orders made for a assembling a product - they won't know anything about macOS, drivers, or APIs.

The current iMac is at the end of a cycle. Although Coffee Lake refresh CPUs could be used to refresh it in March (12 months after the 2019 models came out), there's a more compelling Ice Lake S CPU range due around October which will give hyper threading to i5 as well as i7 SKUs for around 15-20% multicore improvements although single core performance likely won't change much.

The iMac Pro range has had an upgrade to suitable Xeons and could well be the way ahead for 27" iMacs - and that starts at $5k at 2017 set prices. The current iMac can be customised to cost up to $4849 in the US Apple Store. If nothing changed today a US buyer could pick up a 'gaming iMac' for that much and it would come with i9 8 core at 3.6GHz, 64Gb of Apple RAM, Radeon Pro Vega 48, and 2Tb SSD.

If Apple did a bog standard refresh very little would change unless Apple really wanted to go balls out and get the 9th gen i9-9900KS at 4GHz (127w TDP) and throw in some sort of AMD 5700 based GPU. Good luck cooling that lot by the way!

The supply chain surely would not find that of interest as that would be a basic Apple no imagination refresh which they could do any time before WWDC.

A mild form factor refresh sounds unlikely to thrill either as the 27" iMac Pro already exists - bye bye RAM door.

What might have the supply chain guys ringing alarm bells with their news contact would be a new product.

For example - an iMac 24" with 120Hz variable refresh rate HDR DCI-P3 4k display. If it's going to be ready for WWDC (and hence before Ice Lake) as per that speculation article we're looking at uninteresting Coffee Lake refresh CPUs connected to AMD 5500 or 5700 GPU, possibly all SSD (especially if 27" goes all Pro with Xeons as I have suggested) and an iMac Pro style cooling system. Yes, the RAM may be locked in and they may even decide that FaceID could come in as there enclosure would be all new.

But an Ice-Lake based refresh in October this year (with SKUs up to 10 core, 20 threads) would make it very popular, especially if the 27" iMac were to go all 'Pro' but with a lower entry level price thanks to cheaper NAND and CPU discounts from Intel.

Imagine if a 2019 27" iMac Pro started with a 16Gb RAM, 512Gb SSD and AMD 5500? What if the starting price for that was around $3-3.5k?

And under that a 24" iMac with the room (and cooling design of the iMac Pro) to custom build up to $5k worth of CPU and GPU upgrades. This is a Mac that could start with 8Gb RAM, with 256Gb SSD for example. The 24" 4k panel would be fine for many users who wouldn't want to 'upgrade' to a more powerful machine and could start at under $1600.

Now, I've not referenced games here and neither will Apple. As you say just any Mac could stream cloud games if Apple were going that way and that would not affect any Mac with a screen.
 
I think a apple TV based gaming console makes a ton of sense for Apple. They have a solid advantage in the mobile game market so it makes sense for them to try and leverage it and see if they can do anything in the console world and get people into their other services. They have a lot of money to throw around for content like Apple TV+ proves so they wouldn't have an issue getting some key high end games and then this would be an all in one gateway into their other services. I don't see as much of a point trying to compete with PC gaming but I think they could be effective in the console market.

They should also make a series of homepod HT speakers and a sub that are wireless and can have the apple TV/Arcade be a processing hub. I'm kind of suprised they haven't because I think there is a lot of money to be had competing against the Bose and Sonos types. If you combine this with the gaming console functionality it would be a really interesting value I think and do well.
 
You missed my next paragraph:

Sure, I agree that if we jettison the streaming service idea entirely and just focus on hardware, it's possible the source of the rumor just saw some weirdly spec'ed Mac and extrapolated from that. Although it would be an awfully specific leap to go straight from seeing a new Mac to concluding it's a 'device targeting the e-sports market'.

The trouble is, even if that's true then we just end up back at the original concerns I put into my first post in this thread, which boils down to: the rumors are too specific to just pick and choose some parts. So of course it's likely that Apple is experimenting with new tech and specs, but they probably always are. I'm sure their R&D is perpetually trying new things out. But this rumor had a very specific angle, and seemed to claim to know the basic marketing brief of this product. That's quite different to just having some technician spotting a 2020 iMac running an RTX card.

So you're absolutely right that if we discard the 'gamer' part then it might just be a generic next-gen iMac or successor, but... that also seems to discard the spirit of the rumor regarding e-sports, and just replaces it with a truism. That truism is essentially 'Apple is exploring new specs for next gen iMacs and Macbooks'. Well yeah, of course they are - but is it a dedicated gaming rig?

Also, you made a good point about how supply chain employees would almost never have insight into the actual product strategy or software, they just see components. This is true, and is partly why I'm so inclined to say this rumor is just pure BS from start to finish.

I think a apple TV based gaming console makes a ton of sense for Apple.

Yes, this is the direction I could see them taking. They de facto own a large chunk of the casual gaming market (as a gatekeeper), and it would synergize with their existing push into TV.

More so than Netflix, Disney, Amazon etc., they can actually claim to have a platform that provides TV and gaming on the same service. It's a brilliant strategy, as their only real competitor in the casual gaming space (Google) hasn't moved into TV yet. And from there, one could imagine Apple slowly sneaking up on triple-A gaming via streaming rather than hardware.

That's the strategy I can see Apple taking to capture the gaming market, not chasing the Alienware market.
 
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Just judging by the admittedly very small number of content creators I follow, Windows PC‘s crashing and losing the content is a fairly regular occurrence. Decreasing those occurrences increases the amount of content they can produce. And consider, many of them are ”personalities“ more than they are technically inclined. Giving them a sure fire way to to capture multiple tracks of audio and video in a format that makes editing a breeze would be an amazing enabler. THIS IS A VERY specific subset of gamer and very wild speculation :)
Kinda sounds more like a group that doesn't really know what they're doing.

OBS for capture is ubiquitous, and lets be realistic: competitive gaming would not really be possible if reliability was a problem.
Driver-related problems are more common on OSX in games; Blizzard was stuck with a serious water rendering issue in WoW on OSX for nearly a year during the Legion expansion, because the Metal Driver OSX used was a bit buggy and that's how long it took to get it fixed.

Heck, how do you think groups can go on for hours upon hours in game content that requires pre-set groups of 20+ (think games like WoW). Those groups have to come to a complete stop when just one person has a computer/internet problem (and its the latter that pretty much always shows up).
 
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Kinda sounds more like a group that doesn't really know what they're doing.
No, that’s the POINT! :) They absolutely don’t know what they’re doing. They likely posted one or two videos for fun, got a following and decided to take it further. They didn’t get any better at dealing with tech... if they’re lucky, they’ve got friends or nearby subscribers that can help. If not, it’s trial and error (and weeks of not posting videos) until they get it working again.

This speculation isn’t focused on “arena gaming” where there’s a sponsor and a crew for going over every system to ensure it’s running at peak efficiency and stability. These would be folks playing single player games non-competitively. BECAUSE it’s a small group, which means a small demand, you could charge a high price for a midrange system because you’re paying for the “solution” as a whole to work together well. Like “MY FIRST STREAMING COMPUTER” LOL

Although, now my speculation is leaning towards this not being related to gaming at all, someone just saw some specs and went YOUP! DEFINITELY GAMING!
 
This is hilarious, not a chance in hell this is happening. Has anyone been paying attention to Apple in the last 20+ years? OK Apple Pippen in the mid-90s, but those days are long gone (and it failed hard anyway). Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Apple get serious about games outside of iOS, but I don't see it happening.


BOOM!

From the Newton we got the iPhone...
From the Pippin we will get the Pippin Pro? No the iGameBox? The XPlayGame? XPlayboy Pro?
 
I'd settle for any reasonably priced Mac with the deep learning (TensorFlow) training performance of a gamer PC with an Nvidia RTX 1080 Super (or two!).
 
Well, to be fair, they can only speculate on the software based on the hardware clues. Could this hardware clue include more powerful GPU (relatively speaking) tied into a variable refresh rate display - eg 120Hz 4k 24" IPS panel with low latency for an iMac SKU? If tied into a Radeon Pro 5700 - for example - someone in the hardware supply chain might conclude that Apple is suddenly wanting to attract gamers when all they are doing is sampling up for a future video editing Pro SKU.

And clearly if Apple have allowed stepping down refresh rates on macOS Catalina in the MacBook Pro 16" to match video editing frequencies could they be looking to see about doubling up to 48Hz to 96Hz (or 60Hz to 120Hz) for example?

Alternatively, Apple may just be wanting to sample a panel that could allow a Pro-motion type display refresh and trying this on a 27" 5k would be way too expensive both in terms of panel and GPU required to run it acceptably - or maybe they are actually doing it too?

The interpretation of 'gamer Mac' might have come from hardware assemblers making sample devices to Apple specifications who have no idea of the purpose of the software being developed for the hardware under test.

The kind of gaming APIs required to get Apple up to parity with the years of head start that Windows has some headwinds to take notice of: a huge installed user base for DirectX gaming, equipment choice with Nvidia being very much top dog in the horsepower/heat/value/optimisation for several years now, and simple demographic of the average Mac buyer is a lot of negative traction for traditional gamers.

Even if Apple quietly bought a gaming studio to get exclusivity or paid for development time from a huge studio - that news would get out too. And it hasn't.
I thought this rumor was absurd (and still do.) when I first saw but then I came across this "portable" gaming system by ASUS. It retails for $6,499. What Apple is doing something along the lines of this? @VJNeumann

[automerge]1578350907[/automerge]
You missed my next paragraph:



If we take out the gaming speculation that the article posits we could actually just be looking at a new iMac product if you forget any of the gaming stuff.

What I'm saying is this sketchy rumour has possibly come from someone in the Mac supply chain where at this stage Apple may have requested samples to have been made which must be 'different' enough to make people there report to their contacts in the local press (in this case Taiwan economic daily news).

On the basis that these supply chain guys can only report on orders made for a assembling a product - they won't know anything about macOS, drivers, or APIs.

The current iMac is at the end of a cycle. Although Coffee Lake refresh CPUs could be used to refresh it in March (12 months after the 2019 models came out), there's a more compelling Ice Lake S CPU range due around October which will give hyper threading to i5 as well as i7 SKUs for around 15-20% multicore improvements although single core performance likely won't change much.

The iMac Pro range has had an upgrade to suitable Xeons and could well be the way ahead for 27" iMacs - and that starts at $5k at 2017 set prices. The current iMac can be customised to cost up to $4849 in the US Apple Store. If nothing changed today a US buyer could pick up a 'gaming iMac' for that much and it would come with i9 8 core at 3.6GHz, 64Gb of Apple RAM, Radeon Pro Vega 48, and 2Tb SSD.

If Apple did a bog standard refresh very little would change unless Apple really wanted to go balls out and get the 9th gen i9-9900KS at 4GHz (127w TDP) and throw in some sort of AMD 5700 based GPU. Good luck cooling that lot by the way!

The supply chain surely would not find that of interest as that would be a basic Apple no imagination refresh which they could do any time before WWDC.

A mild form factor refresh sounds unlikely to thrill either as the 27" iMac Pro already exists - bye bye RAM door.

What might have the supply chain guys ringing alarm bells with their news contact would be a new product.

For example - an iMac 24" with 120Hz variable refresh rate HDR DCI-P3 4k display. If it's going to be ready for WWDC (and hence before Ice Lake) as per that speculation article we're looking at uninteresting Coffee Lake refresh CPUs connected to AMD 5500 or 5700 GPU, possibly all SSD (especially if 27" goes all Pro with Xeons as I have suggested) and an iMac Pro style cooling system. Yes, the RAM may be locked in and they may even decide that FaceID could come in as there enclosure would be all new.

But an Ice-Lake based refresh in October this year (with SKUs up to 10 core, 20 threads) would make it very popular, especially if the 27" iMac were to go all 'Pro' but with a lower entry level price thanks to cheaper NAND and CPU discounts from Intel.

Imagine if a 2019 27" iMac Pro started with a 16Gb RAM, 512Gb SSD and AMD 5500? What if the starting price for that was around $3-3.5k?

And under that a 24" iMac with the room (and cooling design of the iMac Pro) to custom build up to $5k worth of CPU and GPU upgrades. This is a Mac that could start with 8Gb RAM, with 256Gb SSD for example. The 24" 4k panel would be fine for many users who wouldn't want to 'upgrade' to a more powerful machine and could start at under $1600.

Now, I've not referenced games here and neither will Apple. As you say just any Mac could stream cloud games if Apple were going that way and that would not affect any Mac with a screen.
That sounds a lot more like it.
 
I thought this rumor was absurd (and still do.) when I first saw but then I came across this "portable" gaming system by ASUS. It retails for $6,499. What Apple is doing something along the lines of this?
Yeah that thing is ridiculous. And people complain about Apple’s pricing?

Yikes. It’s worth $4k max imo.
 
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I think this is very unlikely as Apple is premium brand and I doubt gamers would like to pay premium for something that they can build themselves much cheaper (and faster) just to be on macOS.

Although a lot of core gamers do Youtube etc. Many would argue Macs are better for audio/video production. Investing that money in one Mac instead of a Mac and gaming PC would be attractive.

Last time I checked, WoW ran 10-15 frames faster dual booted into Windows 10 on the same hardware. However, this was running Metal 1 I think.

The other issue is with fan noise. MacBook Pros and iMacs would have fans blaring close to ear level. Even though you'll probably have a headset on, it still could be heard. Ideally the Mac needs to be under the desk. Only the Mac Pro (too expensive) and the Mac mini (need an eGPU) can be placed here. So when you consider the fan noise aspect, Macs aren't ideal for gaming still.
 
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Yeah that thing is ridiculous. And people complain about Apple’s pricing?

Yikes. It’s worth $4k max imo.
This was just announced at CES 2020. Looks really cool actually. I can definitely see Apple releasing a desktop like this (Mac Mini Pro / Mac Pro mini) that would have an appeal to gamers and pro users alike

 
This was just announced at CES 2020. Looks really cool actually. I can definitely see Apple releasing a desktop like this (Mac Mini Pro / Mac Pro mini) that would have an appeal to gamers and pro users alike
Hmmm, pretty good specs. I suppose the GPU gets the 16 PCIe lanes and everything else hangs off the PCH (which would be fine). And though it doesn’t really matter as a gaming machine, I’d like to see it support 128GB of RAM; maybe it does but it’s ambiguous. They have a 9980HK 8C/16T option, that’s nice.

It’s not small though; they say 10 liters; the Mac mini is less than 1.5 liters, though obviously it can’t accommodate a graphics card internally. The glass sides don’t particularly appeal to me, but I think I might be in the minority, and that many will like the design.

I do wonder why it’s not shipping, it doesn’t seem particularly difficult of a build. Are they trying to gauge interest based on the renders, before actually going forward with it? Is it just another CES “concept” announcement?
 
Unless Apple's going to target a niche section of a niche market (the boutique, high-priced end of things), they'll likely want to appeal to a broad spectrum of gamers. To do that, they'll have to compromise on price--something they've *never* done before.

If they don't do that, this is all academic.

I'd be floored if they created something that would match this on specs *and* price

 
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