Skip 2019 Mini for 2020 model?

Discussion in 'Mac mini' started by dogslobber, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. dogslobber macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #1
    I've been looking at the GPU in the 2018 model which is a UHD 630. This is the same chip that was in the prior generation Kabylake CPUs. And according to research the likely chip for the 2019 Mini will still be using the same 630 model. E.g.

    https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/core_i3/i3-9100

    So that begs the question of whether we should skip the 2018 and 2019 models while we wait on upgraded iGPU in the 2020 Mini?
     
  2. Mr_Brightside_@ macrumors 68040

    Mr_Brightside_@

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    #2
    Playing the waiting game with the mini is dangerous.
     
  3. redheeler macrumors 604

    redheeler

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    #3
    Or, instead of waiting 2 years for an iGPU that may or may not be a massive improvement, get an eGPU...
     
  4. archer75 macrumors 68020

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    #4
    It really depends on why you think you need a better igpu?
     
  5. dogslobber thread starter macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #5
    I think I'm more underwhelmed by the iGPU strategy by Intel. That is, they don't have one.
     
  6. doboy macrumors 68020

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    #6
    It’s cute that you think they’ll update the Mini in 2020, haha
     
  7. dogslobber thread starter macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #7
    The new Mac Mini is almost certainly coming.
     
  8. archer75 macrumors 68020

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    #8
    But what do you need it for? Some people really do need a egpu for their video work. Some people need it for gaming. Most people don't need it and it's just a want for no logical reason.
    If they did add it, it would just increase the cost and the heat and whatever mobile GPU they could put in the mini probably wouldn't be a worth while benefit to anyone who has an actually need of a GPU for work or gaming.

    Me personally I'd rather they keep a mobile GPU out of the mini, put in a monster CPU and focus on cooling that and I'll get an egpu for any other needs I have.
     
  9. now i see it macrumors 68040

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    #9
    Next mini won't be around until 2022. That's a long wait.
    Minis are famous for having low end graphics processing. The next one, while improved over the 2018 model will still underwhelm. Tis the mini way.
     
  10. OLDGUYWITHAHIFI Suspended

    OLDGUYWITHAHIFI

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    Nov 14, 2018
    #10
    I think the odds of an upgraded GPU coming soon are about as good as 256gb of storage coming standard.
     
  11. FrontierForever macrumors newbie

    FrontierForever

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    Nov 10, 2018
    #11
    Look at the 2012 mini vs. the 2014 mini. The 2014 release featured a crowd-pleasing low-end base model. A well-appointed 2012 model is still providing a lot of value.
     
  12. Cashmonee macrumors 65816

    Cashmonee

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  13. ipodssss macrumors member

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    #13
    Literally all I have seen in the comments section for years is people bang on and on about the Mac mini... they update it and surprise surprise they don’t buy it

    Apple should have just killed the Mac mini tbh
     
  14. sublunar macrumors 6502a

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    Jun 23, 2007
    #14
    Iris Graphics integrated graphics were withdrawn from Intel desktop CPUs with Skylake CPUs and Apple never even used them and they are already discontinued.

    Raj Koduri has joined Intel from AMD and we may see better iGPUs in Intel CPUs in due course but not for the 9th generation Intel CPUs linked so far. For the last few generations we've had broadly the same graphics - variations on the HD630 that's been around since Kaby Lake CPUs.

    In the meantime, better iGPUs are only applied to mobile CPUs at the moment and Apple seem to be moving away from those too given that the 2016 MacBook Pros only use Iris Graphics on the 28w CPUs as used in the 13" MacBook Pro.

    These are primarily mobile CPUs and can't match the horsepower shown by the desktop CPUs that Apple used but most importantly performance per $ is no contest when they are compared to the 65w CPUs in the 2018 Mini.

    So, yes, it might have been nice to see Apple offer a version of the Mini with discrete graphics but that was never going to happen in the existing case which already has an improved cooling system to deal with 65w of cooling in a case that previously was in difficulty with 45w from the 2012 model when it was caned.

    My thinking here is that reusing the existing slot-in form factor is really useful for the server farms that would buy the 2018 Mini in the hundreds or thousands of units because they have existing racks designed for the Mini - and I have no problem with that if their input persuaded Apple to update the Mini in the first place. There really is no need to berate Apple for apparently looking like they lack imagination with the current Mini because there's a Modular Mac Pro coming next year.

    It would make sense for the 2019 Pro to have everything inside the same box (specifically room for a GPU card) and have CPU benchmarks far in excess of the i7 option in the 2018 Mini.

    For this reason I think we might find the 2019 mMP to start far beyond the budget of an enthusiastic would-be Mac mini buyer who isn't keen on eGPU.

    And finally, now that the Mini is using desktop CPUs I don't think there will be any appreciable improvement year on year to make Apple want to know about CPU refreshes until at least the process is shrunk from 14NM to 10NM. There's no point getting speed bumped models year on year for the Mini, especially with its track record over the last 6 years given what's been overlooked.
     
  15. dogslobber thread starter macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #15
    I ended up picking up an i5 model for 999$ on Black Friday. Wife found out and was absolutely furious but I only had to sleep on the couch for three nights before being forgiven. Great value!
     
  16. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #16
    What makes you think there will be a 2020 model? It took them forever to refresh to this version.
     
  17. dogslobber thread starter macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #17
    The 2020 model will simply be a low-key chip refresh. Apple has done all the hard work for the 2018 model which now has a boy racer exhaust system. The 9th gen CPUs have the same GPU as the old 2018 Mini 8th gen CPU.
     
  18. Cheapassmac macrumors regular

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    Nov 5, 2018
    #18
    Wasn't there a rumor that Apple will use their own arm chips in 2020? This might be the last intel mac mini, take that for what it is worth.
     
  19. LeeW macrumors 6502a

    LeeW

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    #19
    Indeed, I have two years to transition back to a PC... Apple will in my view be incredibly mean if they start using their own chips. You will end up with a processor that just does the job and no more, at a premium price and then some if you want a chip that will do more.
     
  20. Cheapassmac macrumors regular

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    Nov 5, 2018
    #20
    So, just so you know, the current iPad Pro is literally as fast as the 15" macbook pro in benchmarks, and cost half as much. The processor will do more then "just" the job. My only concern is software, not performance/value.
     
  21. femike macrumors 6502

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    Oct 15, 2011
    #21
    Was waiting for a long time for a mac mini. This new mac mini with the poor Intel graphics and with the thermals not improved either, I'll be be skipping. Apple may improve the graphics later but then there is going to be thermal problems due to the small casing. So for Apple to improve the graphics they'll need to redesign the case. I don't see that happening, considering that after 4 years they didn't re-design it.
     
  22. philipma1957 macrumors 603

    philipma1957

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    #22

    Wrong. They simply need to make it behave like the dell optiplex 7060 micro.
    Easy access to a replaceable nvme m.2 ssd
    Easy access to the sata
    Easy access to the ram
    Easy access to the cpu!

    Same size as the Mac mini
    Trade offs i7 8700t is a bit slower then the i7 8700b
    And a brick.

    Since I have to plug the gear in I could not care less about a brick.

    I purchased the dell about a month before the mini.

    And because it is superior to the mini in terms of upgrades.

    Ie an i3 an i5 an i7 i can swap
    Ram I can swap
    2 drives which means I could put in a 2tb nvme.2 and a 4tb sata ssd.

    Same gpu
     
  23. LeeW macrumors 6502a

    LeeW

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    #23
    If that is all you can give in support, a benchmark, then you have a nice evening.
     
  24. Cheapassmac macrumors regular

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    Nov 5, 2018
    #24
    So where's your support that an apple arm chip would only be able to perform the bare minimum? The fact that an Apple chip already been crunching numbers favorably to a top end Macbook pro means something. Apple used to use risc style in the past, and Apple transitioned chip families twice just fine (68k - PPC - x86).

    Is that enough support?
     
  25. Cashmonee macrumors 65816

    Cashmonee

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    #25
    2020 seems a bit close. Especially considering an all new, redesigned Mac Pro is coming next year. Seems odd to put all of that effort into a new Mac Pro only to begin switching away from x86 a year later. On that note, while the ARM chips Apple are putting out compete with mobile chips, they don't yet compete with mid or high-end desktop chips like those in high end Mac mini's, the iMac Pro, and presumably Mac Pro. I don't see Apple maintaining an x86 and ARM version of macOS.

    I guess they could move the lower end Macs over to ARM and have a forked macOS, but even that seems a bit of an odd move to add yet another operating system. I am not saying Apple does not move to ARM, but I do think 2020 seems a bit ambitious and does not feel right. That is just about a year off (year and a half if we assume WWDC 2020), and I just don't know that we are seeing signs that something like that is coming.

    I will say that it is rather interesting that both the MacBook and the iMac were not updated this year. Those would be the machines I would guess would be the first to switch. However, as I said, what would they do for the rest? I don't think ARM is fast enough to replace i5 and faster systems. Maybe I am wrong about that?
     

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38 November 18, 2018