Skyfire Rakes in Nearly $1 Million in First Weekend

[xxxamazexxx]

WOW I'm amazed that that many people flocked to buy the app. I rarely view flash content on my iDevice and thus thought that it would be a flop.

With the regard to the previous argument, I think Steve Jobs meant well when he rejected Flash on iOS. Handheld devices are not great an environment at all for Flash with all the problems of security and performance outstanding. Since the beginning, developers on this platform have always been aware of the situation and groomed their content towards a Flash-minimal standard (even before iPhone came out, how many sites did you browse on your phones that featured Flash ?).

It is arguable that with its technical prowess the iPhone could have easily embraced Flash and minimized consumers' discontent as did Android; but being the perfectionist that he is, Steve can't let that happen citing numerous advantages of the renunciation, which are totally reasonable. So it is simply a matter of his vision, and eccentricities, you may say.

I don't agree with the likening of Apple to 'communist dictators'. Far from that, they have switched the allegiance to Intel and are slowly phasing out FireWire, which shows that while egoistically ambitious, Apple will just do what they think is best for their products and their customers. And isn't that what every business does ?

If you're personally dissatisfied with the direction Apple is headed, you don't have to blow it up into a corporate bad blood. Apple is not listening, anyway.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

It doesn't matter. You're not convincing anybody.

It's amazing how you like to speak for everyone all the time. I suppose you believe that since you are the center of the Universe that you can speak for everyone all the time. To me, you look like someone that's probably still in high school and fancies himself a master debater.

Calling a CEO a communist because their product doesn't do what you think it ought to do is pretty goofy.

That's not why I called him a Communist. I call him a Communist because he acts like a 1-person dictator. It's no secret the man has control freak type issues. He was removed from Apple once already because of this problem. You don't see it because you choose not to, not because it doesn't exist. Yammering on about a thousand times in one post is no way refute valid arguments, BTW.

You're not listening. I gave four very good -- and rational -- reasons why Flash is a bad idea for iOS. You haven't countered that reasoning.

If you think I haven't countered it, then you clearly never read my post (or are incapable of comprehending it). Flash for iOS is no more of a security risk than it is for OSX in general or any other plugin from PDF readers to Javascript. Steve Jobs "reason" for not including Flash is supposedly mostly about performance not security risks.

Futhermore, offering the consumer an option to enable Flash and leaving those that do not want it to disable it solves all issues in regards to whether or not it's a good idea to include Flash support or not. You cannot or won't accept that because fanatics must defend Steve Jobs until the end no matter how illogical it is to do so.

If Apple did that, then they would be staking the security of iOS Safari to Adobe.

Oh? Then why are they allowing Flash in regular OSX? Your arguments are completely illogical.

And Adobe has proven to be thoroughly incompetent in securing their products. Security experts believe that Adobe is going to surpass Microsoft as the #1 target for security attacks.: "The expectation is, among the security community, that Adobe this year, in 2010, is going to surpass Microsoft as the number one target for attacks due to the continuing problems."

By your logic that would mean that Microsoft must be the most incompetent company out there. On the contrary, it indicates they are POPULAR. It is widely known that OSX has laughable security compared to Windows, but it is not targeted because it represents a tiny minority of market share. There's far more money in attacking 90% of the market than 8%. Apple regularly has security updates to OSX. Most of the time we aren't told what those vulnerabilities are/were. That doesn't mean they don't exist or that Apple has better security. But you'd rather tell me 2+2 = 5 than look at the actual data.

Adobe still thinks that quarterly updates is good enough for their software.
Clueless.

How often does Apple update their security? I guess they're clueless too by your account. You won't admit that, however because you have an emotional investment in Apple.

Please explain how you can possibly ensure that not a single iOS user will not lose anything the next time there's a zero day Adobe bug. You can't.

That is not what I said or what I proposed. You cannot win an argument on the discussions' actual merits so you make crap up like every other fanboy on here. I proposed that NO ONE that keeps Flash disabled on a system that provides the option to turn it on or off could be affected by a zero day bug. You have changed that to ALL users, which is ludicrous. Microsoft has had its share of zero day bugs in Windows itself. Should one not use Windows? If OSX were as popular as Windows it would be attacked constantly. Most Mac users live under a false sense of security to begin with.

See above. My arguments are rational. OTOH, you are the one who labeled Steve Jobs as a "communist dictator" in message #45 of this discussion.

Wow. Let's run that into the ground as if me comparing Steve to a dictator (which is quite laudable) makes all your "logic" correct somehow.

That argument is purely based on emotion, it is purely nonsensical, and it is entirely wrong.

Considering you apparently cannot tell an opinion from a fact and logic from emotion, it's hard to take anything you say seriously let alone accept your opinion that my argument is "wrong".

Note: despite asking you multiple times, you have yet to tell us of a SINGLE FLASH APP that doesn't have a reasonable alternative in the app store.

You just drew this one out of left field. WTF does ANY apps have to do with visiting web sites that use Flash on the web ??? Since when did I talk about Flash programs versus iOS Apps ever. Are we living in the same Universe?

Honestly, I can say 100% this is a waste of my time at this point. You're not even in the same discussion as far as I can tell. I gave you entire web sites that discuss the shortcomings of Flash and you not only didn't read them, you didn't even look at them. You don't even seem to know WTF is being discussed at this point as evidenced by your rants about "Apps" that have NOTHING to do with the subject of this thread or Flash. You won't accept a basic opinion that some of us would prefer a Flash OPTION than none at all, which solves the problem for those that want it and those that don't. Instead, you just look for some unrelated security issue that applies to almost every piece of code out there for potential risks and the entire OSX platform where Flash is "allowed" (and even included by Apple until recently) and even Steve Jobs own reasons for not including Flash which are based on performance, not security. An OPTION to use or not use Flash does not endanger those that opt to NOT use it, but it would let those of us that do want to use it have access without having to use some 3rd party App like Skyfire. The fact that Skyfire quickly rang up over $1 MILLION in sales shows that there is in fact (contrary to your nonsensical claims) a large demand for Flash on iOS devices and thus my argument for a mere OPTION has great merit. But instead you selfishly choose to push some notion that the world needs to have Flash exterminated once and for all, despite the fact that HTML 5 cannot replace most of the interactive and sound services Flash offers across platforms (I provided links to discussions on why HTML5 is no replacement for Flash at this time, but instead of reading them, you would prefer to falsely claim I did not address your points).

Millions of users on Macs AND Windows AND Linux also don't give a rat's ass about a single Flash app. They have installed click-to-flash blockers on their computers to muzzle flash.

And my suggestion of an OPTION to use or disable Flash accommodates them just fine. Your option of NO option accommodates only you and others that don't want Flash (and we're talking web sites, not "apps" once again), which shows you don't give a crap about anyone else except people that share your point of view. Like I said, fanatics don't care about anyone but themselves and perhaps the person they worship.

Other than a small number of legacy programmers, nobody cares about flash any more.

Yeah, that's why Skyfire sold over $1 MILLION in sales already because what you say is so true.

Sorry, but you provide no evidence that any of your claims are backed up by anyone but yourself. You speak for everyone on here instead of just yourself. You clearly demonstrate zero ability to reason or even contemplate valid comparisons or to exam proof offered and just post pages and pages of rhetorical nonsense. Sorry, but I refuse to even read any more of your posts. They are a total waste of my time. You take one post that suggests that some of us would like an OPTION to use or not use Flash and turn it into the holy crusade to rid the world of the evil that is Flash. Sorry, but I don't like fanatical views on ANYTHING.

If you can't address that question, please don't even bothering responding.

Don't worry. I won't bother to responding to your posts ever again. They're not worth reading.

 

[FloatingBones]

That's not why I called him a Communist. I call him a Communist because he acts like a 1-person dictator.

He's the CEO of a company: accountable to the Board of Directors and the stockholders of the publicly-traded company. There's no comparison between that and a communist dictator. Goofy.

Anyone who can provide a rational reason why these two things are comparable, please chime in.

Flash for iOS is no more of a security risk than it is for OSX in general or any other plugin from PDF readers to Javascript.

That's a terrible argument for having bundled Adobe products on iOS.

Adobe products are a large risk on Mac OS X. It's unbelievable to me that Adobe Reader is a vector for zero day bugs. I really don't know how you do that: it's a PDF reader! The bugs have been around in Adobe Reader for years and Adobe still hasn't fixed them.

If you only view PDF files, you shouldn't even have Adobe Reader installed on your OS X computer. Apple Preview is better, faster, and far less bug-prone.

Steve Jobs "reason" for not including Flash is supposedly mostly about performance not security risks.

It's about both the performance and the security risks.

It's also about the identity-leaking through Flash cookies. Perhaps you missed that security discussion: more than half of the top 100 websites are now using Flash cookies to track users and store information about them. Flash cookies do not honor the cookie privacy settings of the browser; many users don't even know that Flash maintains its own set of cookies.

It's about the quirky UI interactions with Flash. Scrolling works differently when the mouse is over a Flash region. Certain keyboard shortcuts cease to work. Text that is displayed in a flash window is not searchable with the browser's text-finding feature. My Mac doesn't behave like a Mac inside of a Flash window.

Then why are they allowing Flash in regular OSX?

Software is much more tightly-controlled on iOS devices. There is a file system firewall between every app. Third-party apps must be submitted to Apple before they can be distributed, and Apple has the capability to remotely disable any third party app that begins to exhibit a malware-like behavior in the field.

Some of those controls are about advances in OS development since Mac OS X. Some have to do with the nature of the device: handhelds are more appliances than laptops.

One other reason to ban Flash on iOS: Flash apps can be packaged as iOS apps. This should be safe because of the way that iOS apps are firewalled from each other and the kill switch that Apple can use if an app is found to be rogue.

There are fundamental differences between iOS devices and laptops/desktops. Also, Apple no longer ships Adobe Flash on their newest computers. I'm guessing that Apple will ship Flash on no computers starting with the release of OS X 10.7 next year.

By your logic that would mean that Microsoft must be the most incompetent company out there.

I don't believe you read that headline carefully: Security experts believe that Adobe is going to surpass Microsoft as the #1 target for security attacks.

On the contrary, it indicates they are POPULAR.

No reason to shout.

Perhaps it indicates they have some fundamental problems in their software engineering. Did you read the podcast transcript about the latest Adobe bug? Adobe Reader has the same zero-day glitch as Flash. How does a PDF viewer get executable bugs like this?

How often does Apple update their security? I guess they're clueless too by your account. You won't admit that, however because you have an emotional investment in Apple.

Apple updates their software when updates are needed.

The point is that quarterly updates are far too infrequent. Did you read the transcript of the Security Now! podcast? Given the continuing number of Adobe zero-day bugs, Gibson asks:

"[Adobe:] how is that quarterly update cycle going for you?"

That is not what I said or what I proposed.

You proposed that Apple include Flash with iOS Safari and that users could turn it on. How you can possibly ensure that not a single iOS user will not lose anything the next time there's a zero day Adobe bug. You can't.

I proposed that NO ONE that keeps Flash disabled on a system that provides the option to turn it on or off could be affected by a zero day bug. You have changed that to ALL users, which is ludicrous.

Incorrect. You misread my words.

Microsoft has had its share of zero day bugs in Windows itself. Should one not use Windows? If OSX were as popular as Windows it would be attacked constantly. Most Mac users live under a false sense of security to begin with.

Do you listen to the Security Now! podcast? Have you listened to what security expert Steve Gibson says about iOS security? He is quite impressed.

The largest vulnerability is probably through Safari. The addition of Flash to Safari would substantially decrease the security of the software. Given Adobe's track record, I can't imagine how any rational person would disagree with that.

WTF does ANY apps have to do with visiting web sites that use Flash on the web ??? Since when did I talk about Flash programs versus iOS Apps ever. Are we living in the same Universe?

You say that Flash is indispensable for iOS devices. I'm challenging that: I'm asking you to name a single Flash app that doesn't have a reasonable (or even vastly superior) alternative in the App Store. Further, any Flash app can now be packaged as an iOS app.

I gave you entire web sites that discuss the shortcomings of Flash and you not only didn't read them, you didn't even look at them.

You listed several sites which you claimed didn't have HTML5 video. That was wrong. Videos launch fine from gametrailers.com. And giantbomb.com. And vimeo.com. I don't see any videos on engadget.com. IDK the links for the other two sites. I did all that from my iPod Touch.

Do you have an iOS device? Did you test your claim before making it?

And my suggestion of an OPTION to use or disable Flash accommodates them just fine.

If Apple added Flash to iOS Safari, any users turning it on would be vulnerable to Flash's zero day bugs. Further, Apple would not be in control of the fixing of those bugs.

There is a safe way to run Flash apps on iOS: package the Flash as an iOS app. If there are actually Flash apps that users can't live without, this is the safe way to provide those Flash apps on iOS machines. Apple will distribute those apps with a 70/30 split of the sale price to the developer. If the developer wants to make the software free, Apple will freely distribute the software to anyone who wants it.

Flash is not viable as a means of delivering content to all browser users. Even Adobe realizes this; they are shifting their focus away from Flash.

 

[Green R]

Okay...

Look... I don't want to be a hater or anything like that but I have a first generation Ipod Touch... I got it as a present for my birth day, a month latter my wife have an Iphone 4 for her birthday so she sold her 3gs that i used to compare with My phone, the nexus One, look guys I need to be honest here, I got FULL Flash in my phone since it came out in the app market , and so far NOT a single problem with it, I remember when Jobs says it is not possible for a mobile device to have flash blah, battery drain, blah, poor performance blah, blah, blah... Dude flash is Awesome on my Android phone! no lag, no battery fast drain fast, no problems!!! do you guys have any tiny little Idea how @$#%^ cool it is going to www.newgrounds.com on my phone!? do you know!? or just playing online games like the ones on www.arcadepod.com? plus most of the apps are free!!! including that pathetic flash converter browser Skyfire that by the way is being in Android app market for like forever already!!! also it is sad that you have to Root (aka jailbroke) to get 20% more "liberty" with your phone! I already "convert" 4 Iphone users to Android at my job (400 plus workers) the rest are just plain envious of what android is capable of!!! without ROOTING!!! ahhh and don't get me starting in what you can do with a Root Android phone... My next Phone will be the Android HTC G2 that once rooted you can "BOST" to the phone to its real power........... 1.4 ghz!!!!!!!!!!!! With no battery issues!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVORX-ZFblA

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

There is a safe way to run Flash apps on iOS: package the Flash as an iOS app. If there are actually Flash apps that users can't live without, this is the safe way to provide those Flash apps on iOS machines. Apple will distribute those apps with a 70/30 split of the sale price to the developer. If the developer wants to make the software free, Apple will freely distribute the software to anyone who wants it.

I'll say this one last time. Flash is not an app! It's a method of delivering content on a web site. You cannot make iOS "apps" to replace a web page dude. As long as there are Flash only web sites, there will be a demand for Flash plugins. This Skyfire app is proof of that. I won't bother arguing anymore about the other things as it's a complete waste of my time.

 

[Green R]

I'll say this one last time. Flash is not an app! It's a method of delivering content on a web site. You cannot make iOS "apps" to replace a web page dude. As long as there are Flash only web sites, there will be a demand for Flash plugins. This Skyfire app is proof of that. I won't bother arguing anymore about the other things as it's a complete waste of my time.

In Ios perhaps... But in Android Market it is.

 

[jafan pit]

Yes, Microsoft is (and always has been) moving into other areas and fails in some, but their software machine is very strong in the client desktop software and server market. Their business and monopoly just keeps growing, they aren't desperate. All business tries to expand, especially when you have billions of spare profit to burn every quarter. Wish I was as "desperate" as them.

 

[FloatingBones]

I'll say this one last time. Flash is not an app! It's a method of delivering content on a web site.

If there were not Flash applications, then Adobe would not have developed and released its Packager for iPhone.

Flash is also a way to deliver video. The Skyfire App is a way for iOS users to view those legacy Flash videos. When sites update their video to be HTML compliant, bridging services like Skyfire will no longer be needed for that conversion.

Finally, as you note, Flash is also a way to deliver web content.

You cannot make iOS "apps" to replace a web page dude.

Why not? That sounds like the exact purpose of Adobe's new packager tool.

As long as there are Flash only web sites, there will be a demand for Flash plugins.

Users of the 120M+ iOS devices are doing just fine without Flash plugins.

As long as websites serve up some or all of their content solely through Flash, they will be shut out from users on those iOS devices. Adobe recognizes this shortcoming in Flash and is rapidly developing a Flash to HTML5 converter:

Here's what Adobe blogged about that after a demo at their Adobe MAX 2010 conference in October:

How could I create rich experiences that run on desktops (where Flash is the obvious, consistent (cross-browser/-platform) choice) and on iOS devices where Flash isn’t allowed? I’d have to create two versions of a everything–one Flash, and one HTML5*. Good luck getting clients to double their budgets, though, and yet they don’t want richness cut in half.

So, the opportunity: Cut the cost of targeting multiple runtimes & we’ll deliver real wins: more richness for clients, and a competitive advantage for customers. [...]

Adobe lives or dies by its ability to help customers solve real problems. That means putting pragmatism ahead of ideology.

Once a website has gone through the process of serving up HTML5, why bother serving up Flash to anybody? This tool will continue to lessen the need for Flash on the browser for everybody.

This Skyfire app is proof of that.

Not exactly. Skyfire is not optimal for iPhone users, because videos they request have to go through Skyfire's servers for conversion. It's also not a complete solution for websites, because only a fraction of the iOS users will purchase the Skyfire app. Skyfire functions as a bridging app to give websites access to iOS users until they convert their video inventory to HTML5.

I won't bother arguing anymore about the other things as it's a complete waste of my time.

That would be good.

Ironically, Adobe's new conversion tools will accelerate the demise of Flash on the web.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Users of the 120M+ iOS devices are doing just fine without Flash plugins.

For the last time, STOP SPEAKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE!!! You have NO right what-so-ever to speak for anyone but yourself and yet you continue to state that EVER SINGLE iOS USER hates Flash and is glad to be rid of it and yet this Skyfire app proves just the opposite. You have every right to give your opinion on the matter, but it is your opinion, not the opinion of every single iOS user in existence. I'm sorry you cannot tell the difference.

As long as websites serve up some or all of their content solely through Flash, they will be shut out from users on those iOS devices. Adobe recognizes this shortcoming in Flash and is

That is NOT a shortcoming of Flash dude. That is a shortcoming of Steve Jobs' choosing. You obviously are deluded at this point since you cannot tell the difference. You apparently are under the impression that iOS came FIRST. Well, it didn't and the only person stopping Flash from working in iOS is Steve Jobs. Even if Flash is on the road to becoming obsolete, that doesn't mean people don't want to be able to access the entire Web in the here and now. You just don't seem to comprehend that.

Once a website has gone through the process of serving up HTML5, why bother serving up Flash to anybody? This tool will continue to lessen the need for Flash on the browser for everybody.

Because not every web browser works entirely/properly/uniformly with HTML5 and Flash existed long before it and does many things HTML5 cannot do on its own. I could invent something called HTM7 tomorrow, but that doesn't automatically mean everyone should dump everything in existence and replace their web sites to use it instead. You seem to have this deep seated hatred of Flash and I can tell that if Steve had said "I LOVE Flash" instead you would almost undoubtedly be here fighting against HTML5 and for Flash. Yes, I honestly believe that. You have no vested interest in either one. You're just being Steve's doormat.

Not exactly. Skyfire is not optimal for iPhone users, because videos they request have to go through Skyfire's servers for conversion.

Gee, no kidding. It's not optimal. That's precisely what I said in the first post. I would even go as far as to say having to use Skyfire to view Flash video SUCKS. Users should have the choice to have the OPTIMAL solution for Flash, that is to have the ability to view Flash in iOS devices directly!!!

complete solution for websites, because only a fraction of the iOS users will purchase the Skyfire app. Skyfire functions as a bridging app to give websites access to iOS users until they convert their video inventory to HTML5.

I see no reason why ANYONE should have to convert to HTML5. The WEB worked fine before it and it will work fine without it. Just because old Obi-Wan wants to go on some fool crusade doesn't mean you have to.

Ironically, Adobe's new conversion tools will accelerate the demise of Flash on the web.

Adobe is simply out to make money dude. Their mission is clear. Steve, however is the one on some darn crusade, although I dare say it's a personal crusade and a mission to shove his weight around because he can not because iOS cannot handle Flash.

 

[FloatingBones]

For the last time, STOP SPEAKING FOR OTHER PEOPLE!!! You have NO right what-so-ever to speak for anyone but yourself and yet you continue to state that EVER SINGLE iOS USER hates Flash and is glad to be rid of it and yet this Skyfire app proves just the opposite.

What I said: Users of the 120M+ iOS devices are doing just fine without Flash plugins is completely true. There are no Flash plugins for this device. Nobody can run a shred of Flash content in their browser on this device.

No amount of nonsensical shouting will change the facts.

You have every right to give your opinion on the matter, but it is your opinion, not the opinion of every single iOS user in existence.

But owners of those 120M+ iOS devices are doing just fine without Flash. Nobody forced them to buy those devices. If they were somehow "disappointed" because there are no Flash plugins available, nobody prevented them from returning them or reselling them.

That is NOT a shortcoming of Flash dude.

Also incorrect. There are huge shortcomings of Flash, and you've never addressed them.

You've never addressed the identity-leaking of Flash cookies: Flash doesn't honor the cookie privacy settings of the browser. More than half of the top 100 websites are now using Flash cookies to track users and store information about them. Do you actually like the fact that those sites do an end-run around the cookie privacy settings by using Flash? I can't find a single rational person that likes the identity-leaking.

You've never addressed the quirkiness that Flash brings to the browser UI. On my Mac, scrolling works differently when my mouse is over a Flash region. Certain keyboard shortcuts cease to work. Text that appears in a Flash window is not searchable with the browser's text-finding feature. My Mac doesn't behave like a Mac inside of a Flash window.

The engineering choice made for iOS is simplicity. Layering Flash on top of the browser would compromise that simplicity. Click-to-flash semantics would add yet another layer of clutter and obfuscation to the UI.

You've never addressed Adobe's inability to deal competently to secure their software. Security experts believe that Adobe is going to surpass Microsoft as the #1 target for security attacks. Besides Flash, Adobe Reader is a vector for zero day bugs. I really don't know how you do that: it's a PDF reader! The bugs have been around in Adobe Reader for years and Adobe still hasn't fixed them.

If Apple enabled Flash in iOS Safari, they would be farming out the correct operation of their iOS browser to a company that has proven to be one of the least competent companies in dealing with malware attacks. Noted security expert Steve Gibson mocks their cluelessness:

"[Adobe:] how is that quarterly update cycle going for you?"

I have yet to find a single Flash enthusiast who can address those issues. I'm hardly surprised that you can't address them, either.

That is a shortcoming of Steve Jobs' choosing.

Nonsense. They are engineering and design choices. If Apple made bad engineering and design choices, they would never have sold 120M+ of these devices.

If you think they are a "shortcoming": there are simple solutions. Don't buy an iOS device. If you did buy one, sell it. Or maybe you can see if it will blend.

One thing is certain: Apple will not compromise their iOS browser with Flash, and complaining about that is rather silly.

Even if Flash is on the road to becoming obsolete, that doesn't mean people don't want to be able to access the entire Web in the here and now.

Adobe Flash is on the road to becoming obsolete. Even Adobe acknowledges the fact.

Between the 120M+ iOS devices, the click-to-flash plugins disable Flash downloads on Windows, Mac OS X and Linux machines, and Adobe's new Flash-to-HTML5 conversion tools, the abandonment of Flash will continue to accelerate.

You just don't seem to comprehend that

.

You are correct. Flash is a legacy technology, and its day has passed.

You seem to have this deep seated hatred of Flash

There are fundamental failings in both the design and deployment of Flash. I listed three of those earlier in my reply.

The thing that got my attention was when I realized that Flash was maintaining its own set of cookies and that those cookies did not honor the privacy settings of my browser. I then learned about click-to-flash plugins to minimize my exposure to Flash. The shocking thing to me was how much disabling Flash improved the browsing experience: faster page loads, less flashing advertisements, and far less CPU usage.

and I can tell that if Steve had said "I LOVE Flash" instead you would almost undoubtedly be here fighting against HTML5 and for Flash.

You imply that I blindly agree with Apple's (and Jobs's) decisions. That is not the case.

I strongly disagree with Apple's decision to prevent Hypermac from selling external batteries for Mac computers. Hypermac makes a quality product, and they are filling a niche that Apple ignores. Magsafe is a wonderful technology, but they should be licensing this tech to third-party vendors. I fondly hope that Apple addresses this deficiency in their strategy and product accessories soon.

If you search, you can find where I commented on this in the public record weeks ago.

Yes, I honestly believe that. You have no vested interest in either one. You're just being Steve's doormat.

Now you know better.

I see no reason why ANYONE should have to convert to HTML5.

Too many laptop users are tired of the CPU loading and battery suck of Flash apps.

Too many users don't like that Flash alters the UI inside of the browsers: altered scrolling behavior, keyboard shortcuts that don't work in Flash, text searches that don't work with text in a Flash app.

Too many privacy advocates are bothered that Flash maintains a separate set of cookies and those cookies do not honor the privacy settings of the browser. Commercial websites are using those Flash cookies to track users.

Too many security advocates are wary of using Adobe products because of Adobe's poor track record against security attacks.


Even if all those four large concerns were addressed, websites have to deal with the growing number of users that use Flash-blocking plugins. Advertisers that deliver their ads with Flash have no guarantee that users will allow those Flash apps to be downloaded and run on their machines.


Those are the reasons why Flash's viability for delivering web content is in decline. Even if you don't see the reasons, Adobe does.

 

[MythicFrost]

I'd say one of the biggest reasons why Apple won't let flash on iOS is simply because flash doesn't mix well with multi-touch.

People are going to encounter lots of flash that doesn't work or doesn't work well, and it will cause potential security issues, crashing, etc., Apple doesn't want their named tarnished -- your typical user isn't really going to understand that flash is crashing, not the actual browser, so Apple gets the blame instead of Adobe.

The fact is, flash is useful for somethings but is also being used for many things it shouldn't (or would be better suited for something else), flash is everywhere, and personally, I think it needs to die so we can start anew with HTML5 or another codec which fixes Flashes shortcomings.

 

[FloatingBones]

I'd say one of the biggest reasons why Apple won't let flash on iOS is simply because flash doesn't mix well with multi-touch. [...]
The fact is, flash is useful for somethings but is also being used for many things it shouldn't (or would be better suited for something else), flash is everywhere, and personally, I think it needs to die so we can start anew with HTML5 or another codec which fixes Flashes shortcomings.

Well-said on both points. There's a tremendous amount of overlap between the functionality of HTML and Flash. I have a friend who hired someone to make his multi-page website. The site is completely passive: it could have been implemented solely in HTML. There was no upside for the website owner in implementing his site in Flash. The downside is clear: at the very least, there are browser users on 120M+ devices that can't view the website. If you read Adobe's blog entry about their new Flash->HTML5 converter, you'll see they get it: the Adobe staffer notes the advantage of having to generate only HTML5: "Cut the cost of targeting multiple runtimes."

Apple is serving to simplify the browser experience for everyone. It's hardly a surprise that some extremists are upset that their sacred cows are being dealt out of the game. They resort to some absurd name-calling. Those nonsensical complaints will wind down in the next few months. As the Adobe blogger noted, Flash Professional used to export Java. Now, the tools will generate HTML5. Life goes on.

If there are outstanding Flash apps for iOS, they can be packaged as iOS apps and distributed through the App Store. I'm personally skeptical those packaged apps will ever be popular on iOS devices. The point is that the marketplace will get to decide: the developers and the users will have a choice.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

What I said: Users of the 120M+ iOS devices are doing just fine without Flash plugins is completely true. There are no Flash plugins for this device. Nobody can run a shred of Flash content in their browser on this device.

No amount of nonsensical shouting will change the facts.

The only thing nonsensical around here is your insistence that everything you say is correct and that no one else is allowed to have an opinion but you on a given subject.

You like to speak for other people and act like they agree with you with no basis what-so-ever to come to that conclusion. Like I said three times now (and which you ignore, along with pretty much everything in my posts), this very thread and the sales thereof indicate a HUGE interest in being able to view Flash on iOS devices and no amount of BS nonsense on your part will change that fact. People get along without Flash until now because they had no choice (thanks to Steve). Your implication that people would return an iOS device based on just a single feature alone is ludicrous just like the logic in your posts in general. I've pointed out there is no equivalent of the iPod Touch from Android and therefore no reasonable alternative regardless of one's feelings about the inability to view Flash web sites. Instead of just acknowledging that not everyone likes Steve Jobs decision to not allow Flash (hardly an unreasonable opinion to have and clearly shared by everyone who bought this app to be able to view those sites), you just continue RANTING like a high school debate team student does just for ranting's sake. Sorry dude, but in the real world not everyone is going to agree with you or share your point-of-view about opinions. Opinion is a word you should look up, BTW since you clearly either cannot tell them from facts or simply won't allow anyone else to express their opinion without jumping down their throat. Take your pick.

 

[FloatingBones]

this very thread and the sales thereof indicate a HUGE interest in being able to view Flash on iOS devices and no amount of BS nonsense on your part will change that fact.

The popularity of SkyFire is a wake-up call to website owners to update their media inventory from legacy Flash wrappers to HTML5.

Your implication that people would return an iOS device based on just a single feature alone is ludicrous.

Flash is either a mission-critical for people or it is not. Evidently it is not mission-critical to the owners of 120M+ iOS devices.

I've pointed out there is no equivalent of the iPod Touch from Android and therefore no reasonable alternative regardless of one's feelings about the inability to view Flash web sites.

Makes no difference. If Flash were mission-critical, they wouldn't be using an iPad.

Instead of just acknowledging that not everyone likes Steve Jobs decision to not allow Flash

We're all very clear you don't like the decision. There are plenty of Flash fanboys. If they want Flash in browsers, they shouldn't use iPhones, iPads, or iPod Touches.

The owners of 120M+ iOS devices are doing just fine without Flash. There are serious problems with Flash on laptop and desktop computers:

Too many laptop users are tired of the CPU loading and battery suck of Flash apps.

Too many users don't like that Flash alters the UI inside of the browsers: altered scrolling behavior, keyboard shortcuts that don't work in Flash, text searches that don't work with text in a Flash app.

Too many privacy advocates are bothered that Flash maintains a separate set of cookies and those cookies do not honor the privacy settings of the browser. Commercial websites are using those Flash cookies to track users.

Too many security advocates are wary of using Adobe products because of Adobe's poor track record against security attacks.

You can't competently address those serious concerns with Flash in a browser.

(hardly an unreasonable opinion to have and clearly shared by everyone who bought this app to be able to view those sites)

See above. There are serious fundamental problems with Flash on websites. There's also a fundamental problem with Flash for advertisers: more users are blocking their ads with click-to-flash blockers every day. Putting your content in Flash now decreases the odds that it will be seen by users.

Adobe understands all of this. They are providing tools to update sites from Flash to HTML5. Sites should do the same and get their videos updated to HTML5. Lose the Flash, and you'll be able to serve up your content to all browser users on all platforms.

I'm sure there's some reason you're unhappy with that solution. That's fine. You're welcome to be a Flash Luddite if you wish.

 

[Da Dealer]

it still wont run on hulu

 

[FloatingBones]

it still wont run on hulu

But the hulu plus service runs just fine on the iPhone, iPod Touch, and iPad. There is no technical reason why regular hulu can't run on your iOS device. It's a financial decision by hulu.

 

[NickkyJ]

installous sounds like a good idea for all you hacks that dont have the 2.99 lol jk jk
i love this app bye bye safari!!!!!!