Slow boot

Cindori

macrumors 68040
Jan 17, 2008
3,523
369
Sweden
Anyone here able to test the proposed solution in this video;

Restoring system from Time Machine backup

I don't have the hardware at the moment but would like to test this out as soon as possible.
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
13,489
6,202
Hong Kong
I can’t even install 10.13.4. No matter terminal, AppStore update, or full OS installer. All pretend started the update (e.g. with the Apple logo, loading bar, and time remaining), but finish in just 2-3min, restart, then stay at 10.13.3. Nothing changed. May be I should enable SIP and try again.
 

Miki4G

macrumors newbie
Sep 30, 2017
29
5
Italy
I have APFS and SSD 850 EVO on my Macbook Pro 13" 2012, no encryption, boot was over 40 seconds, now it is 17", very good performance. I have 16 GB RAM. Trim is enabled.
 

darkweather

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 8, 2013
192
54
I've been using trim off. Today I tried turn trim on and it was terrible. boot is too much slow. I again turned it off. Apple doesn't care about this issue.
 

vince22

macrumors regular
Oct 12, 2013
245
152
I have APFS and SSD 850 EVO on my Macbook Pro 13" 2012, no encryption, boot was over 40 seconds, now it is 17", very good performance. I have 16 GB RAM. Trim is enabled.
I will check later boot time with my 2010 mid MacBook Pro, HFS+ RAID-0 SSD 850 Evo, 16gb ram, just updated last night with High Sierra 10.13.4.
update: boot time starting from power button to desktop = 33.5 secs.
 
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michalnicolas

macrumors newbie
Apr 2, 2018
1
0
Brooklyn, NY
Chiming in with my experience here.

MBP Retina 15" Early 2013, stock SSD
MacOS 10.13.4
Filevault DISABLED

I started experiencing long boot times as soon as I updated from macOS 10.12 to 10.13 back in November. My previous startups had been taking 10-15 seconds, and since the update I'd been clocking them at 1 min to 1 min 30 seconds. No updates had fixed it. Today I had the day off and couldn't take it any more.

Verbose mode didn't show me much that I understood besides some errors that have been previously screenshot in this thread.

I started my troubleshoot by clocking a normal startup at 1 min 25 seconds from POST chime to getting to the user login window.

I'd already tried:
  • Disk Repair in recovery
  • NVRAM, SMC reset
  • Onyx
  • Removing all startup items, launch agents and daemons
I made three (THREE!) backups prior to this. Here's what I did.
  1. Booted to recovery, erased and reformatted my drive as MacOS Extended (Journaled)
  2. Reinstalled macOS high sierra from recovery (this automatically converts the MacOS Extended volume to APFS, which probably rendered step 1 pointless)
  3. When this was done, I set up a dummy user as new (no time machine), skipped logging in with iCloud, no file vault, and got to the desktop.
  4. Shut down unit, turned it back on. 15 seconds from POST chime to login window! So a clean install fixed it, I wonder if my time machine backup will bring it back.
  5. Repeated steps 1 and 2, this time restoring from my latest time machine backup. Got to my desktop, shut down and powered back up. Still boots in 15 seconds.
...So in my particular situation, a reformat, reinstall, and restore resolved my issue. A simple reinstall from recovery (without a reformat) may have done it, too, but I just wanted to be thorough.

I'll report back if slow boots recur. Keep your fingers crossed.
 
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darkweather

macrumors regular
Original poster
Aug 8, 2013
192
54
apple loves joking:

Apple Developer Relations
October 13 2017, 9:10 AM
eEngineering has determined that your bug report is a duplicate of another issue and will be closed.

The open or closed status of the original report your bug was duplicated to appears in a text box within the bug detail section of the bug reporter user interface. For security and privacy reasons, we don't provide access to the original bug yours was duped to.
AND
Apple Developer Relations
April 10 2018, 12:57 AM
The original report on your issue has been closed recently. Please note that you will not be able to directly view the original report in order to keep its information confidential.

AND

the problem is still going on...
 

h9826790

macrumors G5
Apr 3, 2014
13,489
6,202
Hong Kong
apple loves joking:

Apple Developer Relations
October 13 2017, 9:10 AM
eEngineering has determined that your bug report is a duplicate of another issue and will be closed.

The open or closed status of the original report your bug was duplicated to appears in a text box within the bug detail section of the bug reporter user interface. For security and privacy reasons, we don't provide access to the original bug yours was duped to.
AND
Apple Developer Relations
April 10 2018, 12:57 AM
The original report on your issue has been closed recently. Please note that you will not be able to directly view the original report in order to keep its information confidential.

AND

the problem is still going on...
Same here for the slow boot bug report.
Screen Shot 2018-04-11 at 02.28.57.png
 

navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,795
4,965
Amsterdam, Netherlands
July 2018, 10.13.5 is out, a two days old iMac (2017 base, Fusion Drive 1TB, RAM expanded to 24 GB) takes 47 seconds from button press to login screen. When I installed the OS on an external SSD (400/400 MB/s speeds), the time remained precisely the same, 47 seconds. My Hackintosh (i7-4770s, EVO 850, 16 GB RAM) needs about 8-9 seconds. My rMB 2016, m5/512, takes 21 seconds.

I wonder whether I can get that iMac to run Sierra?
 

HDFan

macrumors 68000
Jun 30, 2007
1,893
450
Do have a utility such as little snitch which will tell you if during boot attempts were made to connect to the internet? I've have had to approve a whole bunch of connections during boot in little snitch, some from my own apps, others from apple apps. Unclear whether the apple apps are being driven by other apps or by some apple function.

My boots take on the order of a couple of minutes due to all the internet connections being made by programs I have installed.
 

navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,795
4,965
Amsterdam, Netherlands
Nope. I looked at logs, but the only weird thing I see is launchd[1] taking a break of 10 seconds to respawn every boot. I'm now curious whether it would work faster with wifi off...
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,665
1,784
Charlotte, NC
I've flipped-flopped about 40 times now throughout my testing and playing around. Here's my subjective observations on MY system.

After an initial upgrade from an HFS+ installed macOS, sometimes the conversion process leaves the drive in disarray somehow. If you stay with APFS long enough, for me it seems to work itself out, but it can take a very long time, and sometimes not at all.

I think there is a lot of reindexing, re-trimming, and re-organizing directories going on in the background.

I've found that if you (as mentioned by another member) move your install to a back-up drive by way of cloning, and format the main drive fresh (APFS is fine), then move your install back to that drive, it will clear up most if not all of your complaints. I think the conversion process takes a left-turn sometimes.

Also, if you do a clean install on an already APFS formatted drive, the experience is much improved (at least it was for me). Just remember that after any new install, the drive has to be indexed and Trimmed. Since Trim can't be manually controlled on an APFS drive, it takes some time for this to happen.

Anyway, that's my take on it whether it's right or wrong, I don't know. This is just based on my personal observations of dozens of installs.
 

navaira

macrumors 68040
May 28, 2015
3,795
4,965
Amsterdam, Netherlands
After an initial upgrade from an HFS+ installed macOS, sometimes the conversion process leaves the drive in disarray somehow. If you stay with APFS long enough, for me it seems to work itself out, but it can take a very long time, and sometimes not at all.
I'm on a Fusion drive, which is HFS+, and tried an external SSD also on HFS+.

Yesterday I've read this in 'Insanely Great: The Life and Times of the Macintosh, the Computer That Changed Everything':

Jobs literally made them feel that the quality of Macintosh was a life-and-death issue. At one point in the software development process he was worried about the machine's distressingly lengthy start-up time—almost thirty seconds. He zeroed in on system software programmer Larry Kenyon, who believed he had already squeezed as much speed as possible from the machinery. "€œEven if it took you three days to make it a single second faster, it would be worth it,"€ Jobs hounded him. "€œIf ten million people use the computer, in one year alone, that's about 360 million turn-ons. How many lifetimes does 360 million seconds equal? Fifty? Would you take three days to save fifty people's lives?"€ Kenyon wound up shaving not one but three seconds off the start-up time, sparing a hundred extra souls from the Reaper.

This is original Macintosh thirty seconds... I am not a member of the 'bring Steve back from the dead' brigade, but when I read this I did sigh really loudly.
 

crjackson2134

macrumors 601
Mar 6, 2013
4,665
1,784
Charlotte, NC
Yeah, that's why I said for me. I know they're are others that are having problems not necessarily associated with APFS and are having slow boot issues. Lucky for me I guess, I'm not in that camp. I did have issues as outlined above but managed to resolve them. HS/APFS is just as fast for me, as any other OS version. In fact, it's faster in my case.

Sadly, not one size fits all here.
 

Morpheo

macrumors 65816
Feb 26, 2014
1,273
1,588
Paris/Montreal
FYI... I found this on another forum:

The root cause is APFS does TRIM all the free space while booting.
That might take some time for some third party disks.
SSD needs implementing "background TRIMing" to make things done fast.
And I know some SSD simply doing FAKE TRIMMING if it cannot finish the task within a time period.
There's no data integrity issue for this kind of faking.

Basically I think this is a bad design of Apple. Considering you have a big SSD (say 4TB), even a SSD faking all the TRIM command, it might take quite a while for tons of requests go back and forth.

It seems the only solution to this is to switch to either a "background TRIMMING" SSD, or using "fake trimming" SSD. You cannot tell......
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/long-boot-times-in-high-sierra-2-min.241709/page-5


So maybe there is nothing to "fix" after all and the slow boot time is normal due to how APFS does the trimming... I'd be curious if Mojave works the same way.
 
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