Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Slow boot
- Thread starter darkweather
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I am not seeing the TRIM system status (Yes or No) in about this Mac > SATA in High Sierra.
I haven't messed with TRIM since I had my 2011 MBP and upgraded the drive to SSD. I could have sworn I saw TRIM status section in About Mac back then.
Anyway, to help with the problem test, I turned off TRIM and rebooted. My boot time was about 16 seconds faster. I have since turned TRIM back on.
Edited to add: I see that the TRIM status section has been moved since I last looked years ago. I found it in NVMExpress section.
I haven't messed with TRIM since I had my 2011 MBP and upgraded the drive to SSD. I could have sworn I saw TRIM status section in About Mac back then.
Anyway, to help with the problem test, I turned off TRIM and rebooted. My boot time was about 16 seconds faster. I have since turned TRIM back on.
Edited to add: I see that the TRIM status section has been moved since I last looked years ago. I found it in NVMExpress section.
Last edited:
TRIM status is not moved, it's because on new MBP, the drive is now an NVME PCIe drive. It's not attached to SATA anymore.
Anyway, the boot time on my machine went back to normal after several boots (not that I shutdown my computer that often anyway)
I’m experiencing the exact same thing on my Mid-2012 MacBook Pro with a self installed SSD. Boot gets stuck around 70%, hangs, the screen goes black for about 10-15 seconds and then the boot finishes and the desktop appears. Anyone else experiencing the black screen portion?
thank you but no related. it was my tipo error.
the command is "sudo trimforce disable"
ok. can we assume that the trim disable is the trick only for people with traditional ssd?
for people with flash ssd nvme problem is not fixed
as far as I know ssd and the flash drive are the same. just apple says flash drive to ssd.
likely sip needs to be disabled. I've been using the KCPM utility to do this lately after each new OS install or point upgrade.
n
that's why even if you disable trim, if you go in system report- Nvme it gives you trim enabled.
while traditional ssd gives you trim disabled
no, they behaves in different ways regarding trim.
that's why even if you disable trim, if you go in system report- Nvme it gives you trim enabled.
while traditional ssd gives you trim disabled
There have been a few SSDs that can function reasonably well without TRIM, but they are probably the minority these days, and I'm told those SSDs that did function well did so with hyperactive garbage collection, which can lead to increased NAND wear.
What TRIM does is just turn the "free" space into over provision. In fact, any SSD can "function" well without TRIM as long as you willing to "create" extra over provision for them.
e.g. for a 1TB SSD.
1) Secure erase a SSD (I know it's bad for a SSD, but only once is OK, and it's mandatory for creating over provision)
2) remove all partition
3) create a single 800GB partition (MUST leave the remaining 200GB untouched)
In this case. Even without TRIM, the SSD controller can still easily know that there are 20% (200GB in this case) "free" cell for GC to work. The SSD will able to keep it's performance in long term. However, the SSD's life will still be shorten a bit due to GC still required to move those "deleted data" because lack if TRIM. But this is same for any SSD, including those "no need TRIM" SSD.
Yes, that would work. Actually, what I was doing was just not filling up the drive, but your method would work even better.
However, I was referring to drives that would maintain performance regardless. Back in the old days when Apple didn't have TRIM support, people would choose these ones for this reason. In fact, the one I chose back in the day had the same SSD controller as Apple ones, so I guess Apple also chose this controller for this reason.
For example here's an old school one with the same controller as Apple models, that did hyperactive garbage collection, to the point that turning on TRIM didn't help performance:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/4010/kingston-ssdnow-v-plus-100-review
Yes the exact same thing is happening here. However I am using an unmodified 2013 Macbook Pro with iternal flash storage. Boot screen hangs at 70% for a few seconds, screen goes black, couple second later comes back on and boot finishes.
Without TRIM or over provision. GC is completely useless. That controller will literally help nothing.
Just not filling up the SSD also helps nothing (unless you never delete and write anything to the SSD once it reach certain level).
For GC to work, it require free cell. That's free from the controller point of view, but not OS point of view.
Therefore, if you have a brand new 1TB SSD.
You write 100GB data (90% cells are free in both OS and controller point of view)
Then delete that 100GB data + write another 100GB data back in (90% space is free in OS point of view, however, without TRIM, that deleted 100GB is NOT free from the controller point of view. So, only 80% of cell available for GC).
You further that 100GB data+ write another 100GB data (now, OS still see there are 90% empty space. But the controller can only see 70% of the cells are free for GC).
If your further repeat this action 10 times. You actually never fill up the SSD. In fact, always leave it 90% "empty". However, in the controller's point of view, all 100% cells are occupied. There is no cell available for GC to work. No matter how active they can do, there is 0% cells available for them to move any data.
That's why if we want to keep the performance without TRIM, we need to secure erase the SSD (let the controller know all cells are now free), then keep ~20% free cells NEVER into any partition (don't let the OS able to see these cells). Therefore, these free cells can only be seen by the controller, they are always free, and the OS cannot write anything into them (because once the OS write any data into the cell, controller will not able to see them as "free" without help from TRIM.
GC has to work with TRIM or over provision, no matter how hyper they are. Otherwise, performance will drop. I didn't study your link that. Thanks for providing that. I will have a look later to find out if there is any reason why TRIM didn't help anything in their test.
It should be either the SSD is too new (not completely write all cell at least one cycle yet). Or the SSD has relatively large over provision. I will have a look later.
Well, many drives have built-in overprovisioning since the listed capacity isn't actually the total drive capacity, although obviously the amount of overprovisioning varies.
so, is this a bug, or it has solved for you guys? because i've restarted my mac a lot of times and it still taking aprox 45-50secs, and in sierra was just 15 or even less.
Anyone can go to
http://bugreport.apple.com
to report, just need Apple ID, no need developer account.
So, everyone experiencing this problem should report it.
Maybe we can get Apple's attention this way.
The quicker boot time remains as in Sierra. Maybe there was some glitch and after some boots the system automatically ignores it to achieve normal boot times.